Are "truth" and "logic" eternal or did God create them?

[fastfredy0]

Are "truth" and "logic" eternal or did God create them?
For example: did 1+1 always = 2 or did God have to make it so?

 

[Tambora]

Are "truth" and "logic" eternal or did God create them?
For example: did 1+1 always = 2 or did God have to make it so?

I would say "neither", but that truth and logic should be viewed on a spectrum depending on the conceptual point being made at the time.

For instance:
And the two became one can't be concluded based on mathematical truth and the sun stood still for a day can't be concluded based on scientific logic.
But both do make a conceptual point.

It's interesting to speculate on such things.

 

[fastfredy0]

I would say "neither"

So, you are saying that there was a time when 1+1 did not =2 ... .that God made it so?
You are saying that there was a time when 1+1 = 2 was possibly untrue?

Similar examples than the ones you gave.... I grant that God determines the laws of science and can stop them if He so wishes.

 

[Tambora]

So, you are saying that there was a time when 1+1 did not =2 ... .that God made it so?
You are saying that there was a time when 1+1 = 2 was possibly untrue?

Similar examples than the ones you gave.... I grant that God determines the laws of science and can stop them if He so wishes.

I'm saying that God can use either 1+1=2 to make a conceptual point that is true OR God can use 2=1 to make a conceptual point that is true.
So I don't limit "truth" to just one or the other.

 

[Fred]

Are "truth" and "logic" eternal or did God create them?

I think the Bible teaches they are eternal. God's word (the Bible) is from eternity past and His word is truth (John 17:17).

 

[fastfredy0]

I think the Bible teaches they are eternal. God's word (the Bible) is from eternity past and His word is truth (John 17:17).

Sounds right ... so if God did not exist and thus nothing else ... would TRUTH still exist though no one to know it?
... like the truth that "NOTHING EXISTS" would be true
... does TRUTH's existence need God in order to exist? (truth being a concept)

 

[Fred]

Sounds right ... so if God did not exist and thus nothing else ... would TRUTH still exist though no one to know it?
... like the truth that "NOTHING EXISTS" would be true
... does TRUTH's existence need God in order to exist?

Wow. Not sure, because...

Once I start thinking about anything that does not have God's existence I feel everything else quickly breaks down into massive confusion.

I will say though that I am not sure how even nothing could exist. Nothing is no thing.

 

[fastfredy0]

Once I start thinking about anything that does not have God's existence I feel everything else quickly breaks down into massive confusion.

You're in the Twilight Zone ... assuming you know the show from the 60s

We're keeping it simple....just considering whether TRUTH would exist?

 

[Fred]

We're keeping it simple....just considering whether TRUTH would exist?

I don't think so because Jesus said He is the truth (John 14:6).
Apart from Him would be the negation of that.

 

[fastfredy0]

I don't think so because Jesus said He is the truth (John 14:6).

Jesus is the truth but not necessarily the ONLY truth. The verse refers to Christ's attribute, not the general idea of what truth is. Gee.... I know 1+1 is 2 so to a small degree I am the truth.

 

[Fred]

Jesus is the truth but not necessarily the ONLY truth. The verse refers to Christ's attribute, not the general idea of what truth is. Gee.... I know 1+1 is 2 so to a small degree I am the truth.

Not even sure any maths would be true apart from God since He created all.

 

[fastfredy0]

Not even sure any maths would be true apart from God since He created all.

I don't think simple concepts need God in order to exist. You need someone around to appreciate them I grant. Now, material things is a different matter (pun intended).

 

[Fred]

I don't think simple concepts need God in order to exist. You needs someone around to appreciate them I grant. Now, material things is a different matter (pun intended).

How would these concepts even exist without material matter corresponding to them?

 

[fastfredy0]

How would these concepts even exist without material matter corresponding to them?

1+1=2 is a concept....no 'atoms' are needed for the concept to be true....... you need atoms for a brain to conceive of the concept but the concept exists whether or not someone comprehends it.

 

[fastfredy0]

Maybe I should ask a simpler question: What will be the price of Bitcoin by Xmas?

 

[Fred]

1+1=2 is a concept....no 'atoms' are needed for the concept to be true..

Not sure I agree with that.

 

[Fred]

Maybe I should ask a simpler question: What will be the price of Bitcoin by Xmas?

im not sure.

 

[fastfredy0]

Not sure I agree with that.

What atoms are needed for the concept that 1+1=2?

 

[Fred]

What atoms are needed for the concept that 1+1=2?

something material that would correspond to it.

in my first grade class back in the 70's I think they showed a picture of apples.

 

[fastfredy0]

something material that would correspond to it.

Well, you can have material to represent the concept... but the concept/idea is true it you don't have materials to show it
Got to go....pick wife up at airport. If you know the price of bitcoin at Xmas, let me know.