A proposition (Calvinistic or no?)

[justbyfaith]

Calvinists are Sola Fidests; we teach Justification through Faith Alone. You just said something about Calvinism which isn't true. Remember, you don't have a problem with Calvinism...

Some Calvinists on these boards have said that they believe the very thing that you say isn't true in Calvinism.

Why are Calvinists so wishy-washy? The moment anything that they have said is used against them, they cry that they do not believe in that as Calvinists.

I find that Calvinism does not have unity in its doctrine.

 

[ReverendRV]

Some Calvinists on these boards have said that they believe the very thing that you say isn't true in Calvinism.

Why are Calvinists so wishy-washy? The moment anything that they have said is used against them, they cry that they do not believe in that as Calvinists.

I find that Calvinism does not have unity in its doctrine.

Calvinism does have Unity in Sola Fide; ask any Calvinist...

 

[atpollard]

Effectual grace...what is that; and where is it implied in scripture?

Effectual Grace = Unmerited favor that actually saves … found in Ephesians 2:1-10

 

[justbyfaith]

Calvinism does have Unity in Sola Fide; ask any Calvinist...

However, one Calvinist may say one thing and another will say that it is not the belief of Calvinism.

Calvinism has too many doctrines in it that are not accepted by others in its ranks.

That is disunity.

1Co 1:10, Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

 

[justbyfaith]

Effectual Grace = Unmerited favor that actually saves … found in Ephesians 2:1-10

We have access to it by faith (Romans 5:2, Ephesians 2:8).

 

[ReverendRV]

However, one Calvinist may say one thing and another will say that it is not the belief of Calvinism.

Calvinism has too many doctrines in it that are not accepted by others in its ranks.

That is disunity.

1Co 1:10, Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Calvinism does have Unity in Sola Fide; ask any Calvinist. Just check this out. Until you do, you will be misleading people about it...

Lurkers will be able to see it for themselves, so you may as well get it right...

 

[atpollard]

However, apparently in Calvinism, one is saved before they call on the name of the Lord;

In SCRIPTURE, too:

• [Rom 8:28-30 NASB] And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
• [Eph 1:3-14 NASB] Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons and daughters through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, with which He favored us in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our wrongdoings, according to the riches of His grace which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He set forth in Him, regarding His plan of the fullness of the times, to bring all things together in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him we also have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things in accordance with the plan of His will, to the end that we who were the first to hope in the Christ would be to the praise of His glory. In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of the promise, who is a first installment of our inheritance, in regard to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.

and therefore calling on the name of the Lord isn't really necessary.

SCRIPTURE disagrees:

• [Rom 10:8-10 NASB] But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

 

[justbyfaith]

Calvinism does have Unity in Sola Fide; ask any Calvinist. Just check this out. Until you do, you will be misleading people about it...

Lurkers will be able to see it for themselves, so you may as well get it right...

Certain Calvinists have said on these boards that regeneration precedes salvation and you have said that this is not a teaching of Calvinism.

Who am I to believe?

I believe that lurkers know double-speak when they see it.

 

[atpollard]

We have access to it by faith (Romans 5:2, Ephesians 2:8).

[Eph 2:8 NASB] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

 

[justbyfaith]

In SCRIPTURE, too:

• [Rom 8:28-30 NASB] And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
• [Eph 1:3-14 NASB] Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons and daughters through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, with which He favored us in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our wrongdoings, according to the riches of His grace which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He set forth in Him, regarding His plan of the fullness of the times, to bring all things together in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him we also have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things in accordance with the plan of His will, to the end that we who were the first to hope in the Christ would be to the praise of His glory. In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of the promise, who is a first installment of our inheritance, in regard to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.

SCRIPTURE disagrees:

• [Rom 10:8-10 NASB] But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Thank you for agreeing with me that there is something that a person must do in order to procure salvation!

Unfortunately, you have not understood Romans 10:9 as saying what it truly says...

That confession with the mouth and believing in Jesus' resurrection precedes salvation.

 

[ReverendRV]

Certain Calvinists have said on these boards that regeneration precedes salvation and you have said that this is not a teaching of Calvinism.

Who am I to believe?

I believe that lurkers know double-speak when they see it.

I've never said Regeneration doesn't precede Salvation through Faith; it does. Please do not change the Subject; Calvinists are Sola Fidests. We're Justified through Faith, not by Regeneration...

 

[justbyfaith]

[Eph 2:8 NASB] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

this is not of yourselves is speaking of grace; not faith.

 

[justbyfaith]

Oh, what I would give for a Poster who would truly have a real Debate. I've found that the other side just cannot win that Debate. I have Banned Posters for refusing to Debate...

He said elsewhere, he doesn't have a problem with Calvinism...

https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/a-proposition-calvinistic-or-no.1196/post-44944

Read the other posts in the immediate vicinity of that post (don't read it out of context).

 

[ReverendRV]

Read the other posts in the immediate vicinity of that post (don't read it out of context).

You said you don't have a problem with Calvinism. Was that a Lie?

 

[justbyfaith]

I've never said Regeneration doesn't precede Salvation through Faith; it does. Please do not change the Subject; Calvinists are Sola Fidests. We're Justified through Faith, not by Regeneration...

you did...

However, apparently in Calvinism, one is saved before they call on the name of the Lord; and therefore calling on the name of the Lord isn't really necessary.

in response,

Calvinists are Sola Fidests; we teach Justification through Faith Alone. You just said something about Calvinism which isn't true of Calvinism. Remember, you don't have a problem with Calvinism...

 

[justbyfaith]

You said you don't have a problem with Calvinism. Was that a Lie?

Only in the sense of what was promoted as Calvinism at that point in the conversation, do I not have a problem with Calvinism.

 

[ReverendRV]

you did...

No, and all can see that from your reference; I didn't. But I have learned a long time ago not to chase rabbits. Don't you agree that the Bible teaches us we're Justified through Faith?

 

[atpollard]

That confession with the mouth and believing in Jesus' resurrection precedes salvation.

“Already and not yet”.

• We were saved when God predestined us according to His plan (before the foundation of the world, when our names were written in His book of life). At that point the “die was cast” - as the saying goes - and God’s plan WILL happen exactly as God intends it to unfold.
• We are saved at some point in time when we obey the command and are sealed with the Holy Spirit as a ‘Surety’ that guarantees that God WILL redeem His property … but what we will become (“like Him”) has not yet been manifested into complete reality.
• We will be saved when we shed mortality and take on immortality, as only then will we be fully saved and glorified. Yet the END was foreknown and a forgone conclusion from the beginning. God will show mercy on whom He will show mercy … NOTHING will stop that or alter God’s plan.

 

[justbyfaith]

I think that the Calvinistic theology is too complicated for me.

It is written,

2Co 11:3, But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

 

[justbyfaith]

No, and all can see that from your reference; I didn't. But I have learned a long time ago not to chase rabbits. Don't you agree that the Bible teaches us we're Justified through Faith?

But we are not regenerated through faith?