A proposition (Calvinistic or no?)

[Arial]

So if the poster has a habit of not engaging questions, only posting a falsified viewpoint, straw mans Calvinists intentionally without learning from correction, then why entertain a dishonest, unrepentant, disruptive person in the forum? It seems the staff would be allowing someone to subvert the very intention of the forum.

It can be and should be an opportunity for expose themselves for what they are. But there is a limit. I would suggest that Calvinists keep their cool. If a poster fails to respond to what is being posted, instead of engaging in what he does say, simply ask them to respond again. Which is being done and very well. All offensive remarks they make or utterly off topic are being removed. It will deprive him of the ability to instigate what is trying to be instigated. I suspect it is only a matter of time before he either crashes and burns so to speak, or goes too far.

I appreciate your good concern for the forum, and I actually agree with you in principle, but there may be a reason for all this. What that is, I have no clue.

 

[His clay]

It can be and should be an opportunity for expose themselves for what they are. But there is a limit. I would suggest that Calvinists keep their cool. If a poster fails to respond to what is being posted, instead of engaging in what he does say, simply ask them to respond again. Which is being done and very well. All offensive remarks they make or utterly off topic are being removed. It will deprive him of the ability to instigate what is trying to be instigated. I suspect it is only a matter of time before he either crashes and burns so to speak, or goes too far.

I appreciate your good concern for the forum, and I actually agree with you in principle, but there may be a reason for all this. What that is, I have no clue.

Thank you for your response. It helps to see the staff's perspective.

 

[Josheb]

....there may be a reason for all this. What that is, I have no clue.

Luke 6:45 (see also Jer. 17:9 and John 3:20).

I suspect if the Cals here are polled one of the milestones we'd acknowledge going through in our journey from synergism to monergism (because most of us were previously syns) is that of overcoming our fear of monergism. Anger is a fear-based emotion. Acknowledging the underlying fear assuages the contempt and, being free of that content, submission to the scriptures and not our allegiance to ourselves (which is one of the fundamental changes occurring in conversion to Christ) is much easier. We all like to imagine we were interactive and participant in our own salvation, but it is that "own" that betrays the residual idolatry of the self. Salvation is not ours. It is God's and God's alone. Apart from Him there would be no salvation and salvation is very much about being purchased, debt and all, to the point that we are not our own. We do not own our own salvation because we own nothing but that which is given us, not even our salvation. Another aspect from which we hide is depths of our sin and depravity. We like to imagine ourselves "good" people," certainly better than the condescending Pharisee or the baby-beheading Hamas, but the truth is we are just big near-infinite pits of sin and were it not for fears eating fears there is nothing we would not do. The righteous holy God looks at that and sees it for what it is: desolation. The fact that we come to see our sin for what it is after conversion and even then, only in modest amount tolerable to our finite sensibilities is evidence of our prior blindness, delusion, and inability.

It is no wonder Calvinism is resisted.

It is only those who walk in the light who can see that what has been wrought has been wrought in God (and not the faculties of sinful, unregenerate flesh). Resistance to giving God ALL the credit is a problem where the problem visits itself upon the reluctant. Cals should expect it, not wonder about it and, imo, lean into it and embrace the fray (with manners and respect ) understanding the dissent from both ends of the spectrum.

 

[justbyfaith]

Evidence.

• You post no evidence.
• Multiple posters have asked you to do so.
• There is no evidence even after multiple requests.
• And you pretend you do not understand.
• The op asks for various Calvinists perspectives and then complains about the diversity.

Do you know what that makes you?

The evidence is in the record of posts here on these boards...as one person said to me, "I don't owe anything to you"...

I do not feel the need to use the quote feature or even copy and paste the exact posts that are clear evidence of what I have been saying to you all.

Most of you have been following this conversation from the beginning.

You don't need to pretend like you haven't.

Even if my "proofs" aren't in this thread, I am confident in the knowledge that all of you have seen them.

If not, go back to the other threads in the Arminianism / Calvinism section and see the record of what has been posted.

If you are asking for other types of evidence, it should be clear that I have always referenced scripture to back up my contentions.

 

[makesends]

That the Spirit of the Lord brings freedom means that He is not going to force a singular decision when He draws a person to Christ.

How do you know it means that? Are you going to appeal to the Spirit showing it to you?
The notion that God causing something means that God forces it, is rather monstrous.

Compare what Jonah says, to what the unfaithful servant says in the parable of the talents.

Logically, absolutely everything, except First Cause, is caused. There's no wiggling out from under that fact. But to cause does not equal to force. Nobody is being forced against their will to obey or disobey, to hate God nor to love God.

When He draws a person to Christ, there is freedom to make a choice.

Of course. Who says otherwise? But guess who chooses what?

 

[makesends]

A person who is drawn to Christ is not necessarily given to Christ.

And there is also something that we do in order to procure salvation (Hosea 14:2, Romans 10:9-13, Acts 2:38-39).

Interesting word, there, "Procure". You translate order of mention, with order of causation.

Me being bipedal and reasonably intelligent does not make me a human. Me being a human makes me bipedal and reasonably intelligent (ok, yes, that part is debatable).

If we don't do it, we aren't saved...

Of course.

 

[Arial]

The evidence is in the record of posts here on these boards...as one person said to me, "I don't owe anything to you"...

You are distorting things for your own ends again, and concerning me, misrepresenting what I said from malignant purpose. I said I owe you nothing when you posted a new thread on the same subject, and made the accusation that the Calvinists on the board to not agree with one another. I asked for EVIDENCE of what specifically you were talking about. And you told me just what you told Josheb here. It was in all the other threads in an ongoing conversation. You said you expected me to remember everything that was said and in effect produce your evidence for you.

If you make an accusation and give no evidence of what you say there is nothing to debate!!! Nothing to fix!!!! Nothing to correct!!!! Nothing to defend!!!!

 

[Josheb]

The evidence is in the record of posts here on these boards...as one person said to me, "I don't owe anything to you"...

None of which you have provided.

I do not feel the need to use the quote feature or even copy and paste the exact posts that are clear evidence of what I have been saying to you all.

And you break the forum's rules every time you do so. Therefore, you should - once again - understand exactly how unloving your posts are and the patience, kindness, forbearance, hope, and tolerance extended to you by everyone here - and how much you dishonor it when not providing evidence of specific posters stating what is claimed. It a few seconds to use an "@" symbol. It takes a few seconds to do a Google search, go to a source, copy and paste the evidence and link it to the URL. I know because I took the time to do it for you multiple times. There is no excuse.

You're not just dishonest and bearing false witness; you are lazy and disobedient. You use fallacy either unawares or unrepentantly - even after notified of the errors (and never once correcting any of them). You proof-text scripture with rarely an exception and persist in the practice even when shown the problems arising from the practice. Scripture is abused. Other posters' posts are abused. Claims of sincerity and affection are posted while the posts prove the exact opposite. Both method and content are corrupt.

You could change all of it at any time and don't.

 

[QVQ]

I would say that the prescription is to "keep on asking, keep on seeking, keep on knocking" (Matthew 7:7-8, in the Greek)

There is in some people an overwhelming desire for God and the things of God. That fascination draws people to this forum.
Some people may be curious or have the idea that some formula in religion will benefit them so those will dabble or try to find rituals for "magical results." Those will fall away as there are many more worldly pursuits clamoring for attention.
In some people, there is a strong desire to renounce the world and follow Christ.
"Elect" is the only explanation as some seem to be, by some inherent quality, drawn to God.