2 Corinthians 5:17-21

[Josheb]

I did'nt say you said the audience was pagans. I was just trying to make an example. Perhaps its in the way I said it you misunderstood?

Yep. If I never thought or said the Corinthians were pagans, why would I "NOW" see they were not?

​

Do you now see that this is not teaching that those of the audience in 2 Corinthians are pagans?

I always saw the text is not teaching they are pagans and stated that fact in at least two different ways in my op-reply (they are the Church, and those reconciled to God were being reconciled because of their post conversion conduct). The question was non sequitur.

....I respect your knowledge and opinion.

Comments like, "You're confusing," "Maybe you're not understanding...," "You're blending..." and neglecting and misrepresenting what was posted prove otherwise. Those examples are disrespectful, not respectful.

• Is there any confusion...?
• Perhaps I have not made myself sufficiently clear....
• I see the "reconciled are being reconciled." Could I get some clarification on that because the Corinthians are already saved and I don't want to assume that's not understood.
• How are salvation and reconciliation understood? Are there any distinctions?

Those are examples of both respect and functional discourse. Let me know you'll make the effort and I'll re-engage the thread.

 

[Arial]

17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. 2 The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. 18 All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling 3 the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. 2 Cor 5.

3 questions,
1. Considering the context, who are the ambassadors?
2. Who are ambassadors for Christ?
3. Who is the "you" in verse 20?

1. In the context, Paul and his ministry companions ---preaching ministers formally entrusted with proclaiming reconciliation.

2.But I believe it also has a broader theological synthesis, not from the word itself. The context relates to the time in which it was written---when the apostles were establishing churches fulfilling the commission of laying the foundation (doctrinal teaching and the knowledge given them by the Spirit) of Christ's church. In our time and since the canonization of the NT, we have that information/knowledge and are all ambassadors, not in a formal sense πρεσβεύομεν (official envoy) but as representatives of Christ. 1 Peter 2:9 (believers proclaim God' excellencies). Acts 1:8 (believers are witnesses).

3. The Corinthians. As in any congregation the audience is likely mixed. There would be true believers who might be wavering. Some are influenced by false apostles (dealt with in later chapters) and some may not be truly reconciled at all.

 

[Carbon]

Comments like, "You're confusing," "Maybe you're not understanding...," "You're blending..." and neglecting and misrepresenting what was posted prove otherwise. Those examples are disrespectful, not respectful.

• Is there any confusion...?
• Perhaps I have not made myself sufficiently clear....
• I see the "reconciled are being reconciled." Could I get some clarification on that because the Corinthians are already saved and I don't want to assume that's not understood.
• How are salvation and reconciliation understood? Are there any distinctions?

Those are examples of both respect and functional discourse. Let me know you'll make the effort and I'll re-engage the thread.

Well, I sure didn't mean any disrespect. I will indeed make the effort to choose my words correctly. You only noticed a few of my imperfections; trust me, there are many more.

 

[Carbon]

@Josheb @makesends @Arial
Thanks for your replies in this thread, much appreciated. I have been looking into this lately, I have asked an elder and my pastor their thoughts as well. and was quite surprised, really.
And I thought I would ask it here as well. I am still hoping to get some more replies.

For the record, not that it is divisional, I disagree with you three. My understanding still stands.

I firmly believe an ambassador is not a regular member. I also firmly believe the audience Paul was speaking (writing) to were/are believers. It wouldn't make any sense to beg a pagan to be reconciled to God, only a born-again child of God who may have drifted or fallen into a sin or sins.


Now I agree there is a visible church and an invisible church. And we do not know who the elect are, nor can we. But that is not what I am referring to. Perhaps I'm not making myself clear in what I am trying to relate.
Let me try again here:
As Paul is saying, "Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God." 2 Cor 5:20. granted there are those in the congregation who are both saved and unsaved, to those who are saved and living in sin, this applies to and are probably being convicted. To those who are not saved and therefore naturally and freely sinning, it does not apply. God knows that, we dont. It is only those who are saved and actively sinning that can be reconciled to God.


And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 2 Cor 5:18-19.

 

[Carbon]

And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. 2 Cor 5:18-20.

Isn't reconciliation the central theme of Christianity? It's the restoration of mankind (in its generality) through Jesus's sacrifice on the cross. It is what Jesus came to do. And the apostles are ambassadors for Christ (as though God were pleading through them). Can Christians go out and preach the gospel? Of course.

Has anyone looked up the word ambassador in the Greek? You may notice it leaves out regular members for the most part. It speaks of elders, mature, venerated, etc...

Hoping to get more info, scripture supported hopefully.

Thanks and blessings

 

[Arial]

To those who are not saved and therefore naturally and freely sinning, it does not apply. God knows that, we dont. It is only those who are saved and actively sinning that can be reconciled to God.

Believers need to be taught from the word---the gospel. Unbelievers need to hear the gospel


Romans 10:14

How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?

What does Scripture mean by being reconciled to God? To be justified through faith in Christ alone for salvation. How does that happen. There are many "parts"---regeneration and so on---but in a nutshell, by hearing and believing. And that is what the apostles were doing---Christ and him crucified--- as they planted churches, and yes, the apostles were given that formal commission by Jesus to lay that foundation of his church. There are no more apostles. The foundation is laid. But all believers are representatives of Christ's and bear witness to him. In that they are meant to be ambassadors of Christ but representative is a better word applied to us.

So, I do not know where you get the idea that Paul, an ambassador (from your perspective or mine) would not say to unbelievers---"Be reconciled to God".

 

[Arial]

Has anyone looked up the word ambassador in the Greek?

I posted it in my post and framed the "ambassador" of the believer as theological synthesis---the process of gathering teachings from multiple passages of Scripture and combining them into a coherent doctrinal conclusion. And I gave the examples.