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Why is Jesus called the Only Begottten Son?

I agree that God is only "free" Being but not because of His "unassailable goodness". Rather, because He has the power to do whatever His nature wishes to do.
Technically, if one defines "free" as the ability to do what one desires most at the time, then in many respects men are free ... but God determines over desires.
Can we amend that to say it is "because God is both good and all-powerful He has the ability to do whatever He chooses"?

Otherwise, if we say only power insures liberty then we're left with a Machiavellian/Nietszchean will to power theology and a might-makes-right ethos.
Agreed .... diving deeper, I believe God is continually recreating creation as implied by:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Hebrews 1:3, Job 34:14-15
How is that reconciled with God being done creating on the sixth day?
I prefer the "already/not-yet" :)
Yes, and.......?

The salient point thereof is that all saved people exist as both unsaved and saved until that moment inside creation wherein they are dragged to Christ, brought from death to life, regenerated and gifted the faith that confesses Christ and performs faithful good works.
Agreed .... I don't care for idea that God is inactive in the reprobates decision.
Great.

So how does all of this reflect on and/or change what was previously posted? (like posts 122, 140 and 141) Any amendments?
 
Re: I agree that God is only "free" Being
Can we amend that to say it is "because God is both good and all-powerful He has the ability to do whatever He chooses"?

Otherwise, if we say only power insures liberty then we're left with a Machiavellian/Nietszchean will to power theology and a might-makes-right ethos.
Maybe we need a definition of "freedom" first. I define it as Augustine did, the ability to do what you desire most.

I'd say that God being "good" is a part of His nature and His nature is the cause of what He does, but being "good" does not effect His freedom to do what He desires most. If God was not good I assume He still do what He desired most. I don't like the idea of being Machiavellian, but if the shoe fits ....

Good point. (Aside: this idea is not a hill I would die on).
Speculation: Well, could be God was keeping things simple meaning no more noticeable changes that do not follow a repeatable pattern so our simple minds can predict future events and act accordingly. Question: Does a sperm and egg with their DNA create a complex human being without God's input, or is God using this material that human recognize and causing it to be recreated moment to moment. That's an awfully complex process to be working on its own. Again, if God could somehow disappear would life go on ... I don't think so. Somehow Jesus and so others in the bible 'tele-transport' (Star Trek jargon) which recreation would explain. (Would be incredible "G" force upon Phillip who was directed by an angel of the Lord to meet the Ethiopian official on the road to Gaza, explained the Scriptures to him (Isaiah 53), and baptized him (Acts 8:26–39). Afterward, Philip was “caught away by the Spirit of the Lord” and appeared at Azotus.
Fun to speculate though Job and his buddies did so and got a Godly lecture.



The salient point thereof is that all saved people exist as both unsaved and saved until that moment inside creation wherein they are dragged to Christ, brought from death to life, regenerated and gifted the faith that confesses Christ and performs faithful good works.
Agreed.


So how does all of this reflect on and/or change what was previously posted? (like posts 122, 140 and 141) Any amendments?
I'm not sure .... I'm too lazy to review it all and create amendments. I think we went on a few tangents to make things more interesting/complex.
 
Re: I agree that God is only "free" Being

Maybe we need a definition of "freedom" first. I define it as Augustine did, the ability to do what you desire most.

I'd say that God being "good" is a part of His nature and His nature is the cause of what He does, but being "good" does not effect His freedom to do what He desires most. If God was not good I assume He still do what He desired most. I don't like the idea of being Machiavellian, but if the shoe fits ....
That qualifier "most," implies there are competing desires rather than co-existing equal desire. The "desires most" means there are lesser desires that don't get satisfied as they might otherwise be satisfied were there not a "most" or greater desire to which the others are subordinated. Then there is the matter of goodness. You are correct to say if God were not good He would still do what He most desired BUT sometimes that most desired thing would be not-good and that would be contradictory to a whole pile of verses (like Rom. 8:28) and I question whether that would be freedom. It would certainly risk compromising any claim of righteousness and, thereby, His deity. Any god can be good and bad, Not the God of the Bible. A malevolent God has malevolent desires, and no one can stop them, nor judge them if His ability is based solely on power.
Good point. (Aside: this idea is not a hill I would die on).
Hmmm... I may revisit this relevant to the subject of God's supposed inability to save.
Speculation: Well, could be God was keeping things simple meaning no more noticeable changes that do not follow a repeatable pattern so our simple minds can predict future events and act accordingly.
Maybe.
Question: Does a sperm and egg with their DNA create a complex human being without God's input, or is God using this material that human recognize and causing it to be recreated moment to moment[?]
Yes
That's an awfully complex process to be working on its own. Again, if God could somehow disappear would life go on ... I don't think so.
Me neither.

Here's how I see it: Everything that has been made was made in the first six days and/but it's taken history for all of it to manifest (or unfold, or come to fruition, or however you'd like to word it). The seventh day of rest foreshadows the Son in the grave. That event changes everything. It's a new a different same old world ;).

Ima skip over much of the rest because we're supposed to be addressing the claim God has an inability to save (according to a Cal-critic).
Then the earlier post (Post 141) and the answer, "Yes.............. God is unable to do anything that is not perfect as determined by His wisdom," should be amended accordingly. Yes?
I'm not sure .... I'm too lazy to review it all and create amendments. I think we went on a few tangents to make things more interesting/complex.
LOL

Okay. Let me shift gears, comment on the digressive exchange we just had, and ask you a few questions. I very much appreciate you engaging the original commentary and inquiry, and not just for the sake of this thread but it was helpful in my replies in the other forum. I also appreciate the manners and respect and the lack of personal content, the lack of personal attribution, ad hominem, and honesty and forthcomingness when speculation or lack of surety existed. Did you, at any point, feel interrogated?
 
Ok, I suppose I agree with your fears on how it is stated. Maybe I'm not as careful as I should be. But from what I've heard, here, the opposite is also possible, that the fact of his divinity rules out his humanity.

When I, or most anyone here, tries to get a concept or description of something across, we may do so to the exclusion of showing the other side. That is common speech. But I am sorry for any misleading, on my part. I hope at least, that I did not engage in hyperbole in a matter as sensitive as the hypostatic union.
No problem. I was just on a tear about being precise in the matter of associating a creature (creation) with Jesus.

But a question has occurred to me today regarding this concerning Jesus' cry on the cross "My God, why have you forsaken me?"

Was that forsaking his divine nature leaving him? Or was it the departure of the Holy Spirit from indwelling him? Or something else. Is saying either of the first two treading the borders of blasphemy?

Serious questions that I will put in an OP and when I have will link it to you in this thread, so as not to go down a rabbit trail. I really need help in working through those questions.
 
I question whether that would be freedom. It would certainly risk compromising any claim of righteousness and, thereby, His deity
But all God's attributes are a result of His nature. God's righteousness is an effect of His nature. God's being 'good' is an effect of His nature. An 'effect' is the result of 'freedom' and not a cause of it, thus God being good does not have any causal effect on His freedom.
(not this is important ... just splitting hairs)

A malevolent God has malevolent desires, and no one can stop them, nor judge them if His ability is based solely on power.
Agreed .... and a hypothetical example showing that like our God's freedom is not regulated by his being good, a malevolent God freedom is not regulated by his being malevolent. Freedom is just following what one desires most ... be it being "good" or "malevolent" ... IMO


Re:
Agreed .... diving deeper, I believe God is continually recreating creation as implied by:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Hebrews 1:3, Job 34:14-15
I had another thought .... maybe God is just trying to keep things simple for us. From our point of view, after God creates the sun, moon, stars, etc., they appear to be constant. We don't see God recreating everything constantly and God didn't see if important to explain the process in greater depth, just like He left it for us to figure out the earth orbited the sun.
Again, I am speculating .... not important

The seventh day of rest foreshadows the Son in the grave.
Hmmm, never heard that one. I am not great at type/anti-types. :)



Ima skip over much of the rest because we're supposed to be addressing the claim God has an inability to save (according to a Cal-critic).
Phew ... giggle ... hard for me to keep up to you


Okay. Let me shift gears, comment on the digressive exchange we just had, and ask you a few questions. I very much appreciate you engaging the original commentary and inquiry, and not just for the sake of this thread but it was helpful in my replies in the other forum. I also appreciate the manners and respect and the lack of personal content, the lack of personal attribution, ad hominem, and honesty and forthcomingness when speculation or lack of surety existed.
Thanks for being so kind

Did you, at any point, feel interrogated?
Well, no. I feel challenged because of your superior methods of articulation and logical thinking. Maybe, if you lost 20 IQ points I could compete giggle
Enjoyed the interaction ... have a good one!
 
But a question has occurred to me today regarding this concerning Jesus' cry on the cross "My God, why have you forsaken me?"

Was that forsaking his divine nature leaving him? Or was it the departure of the Holy Spirit from indwelling him? Or something else.
My 2 cents worth from reading various people ...
Spiritual Death for He was separated from God - possibly God obscuring his glory from Christ’s human nature, and inflicting his wrath”.
 
I don't care for idea that God is inactive in the reprobates decision.
I love it that God double-whammy-proves that the reprobate deserve what they get. They not only fail to accept him, failing to believe in him, but they are condemned by very antagonism toward him. Whether the Arminian/Pelagian complains of unfairness and God's responsibility for the status quo, by Adam's sin being applied to them, by God's say-so, they cannot deny that the reprobate nevertheless is indeed at enmity with God.

God set this situation up —he is indeed active in the reprobate's decision— not by antagonism to his creation, but to show his mercy to us.
 
But all God's attributes are a result of His nature. God's righteousness is an effect of His nature. God's being 'good' is an effect of His nature. An 'effect' is the result of 'freedom' and not a cause of it, thus God being good does not have any causal effect on His freedom.
(not this is important ... just splitting hairs)
This is one of those ways of putting things that demonstrates how humans think, as opposed to what Simplicity of God implies. WE are the ones who ascribe to him his various attributes. But what he is, is not divided into any of them. The one does not control the other. His goodness is what he IS —it IS his nature, not an effect of his nature.
 
But all God's attributes are a result of His nature. God's righteousness is an effect of His nature. God's being 'good' is an effect of His nature. An 'effect' is the result of 'freedom' and not a cause of it, thus God being good does not have any causal effect on His freedom.
(not this is important ... just splitting hairs)
...and missing the point. The point is that a power-only answer and a not-good God 1) are not God's nature and 2) is they were they would a) compromise God's freed/liberty/ability and b) make God out to be a god, not the God of the Bible. That God would not be saving anyone from sin or wrath, especially not with any surety.
Agreed .... and a hypothetical example showing that like our God's freedom is not regulated by his being good, a malevolent God freedom is not regulated by his being malevolent. Freedom is just following what one desires most ... be it being "good" or "malevolent" ... IMO
When God's desires are separated from the influence or force of His nature He becomes a selfish God, not a loving one.

When we are saved we are created in Christ in perform good works and one category - the chief category - of those works is loving God and loving others.
Re:
Agreed .... diving deeper, I believe God is continually recreating creation as implied by:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Hebrews 1:3, Job 34:14-15
That is not what either verse states. The Job text is worded in its antithesis (God's withdrawal) and the Hebrews text states He sustains, brings forth, carries forward, not recreates.
I had another thought .... maybe God is just trying to keep things simple for us. From our point of view, after God creates the sun, moon, stars, etc., they appear to be constant. We don't see God recreating everything constantly and God didn't see if important to explain the process in greater depth, just like He left it for us to figure out the earth orbited the sun.
Again, I am speculating .... not important
Relevance? How does that bear on God's supposed inability to save?
Hmmm, never heard that one. I am not great at type/anti-types. :)
The salient point being were it not for the fact that Jesus actually died and was buried in the grave for three days (which admittedly poses a problem for the one day of rest inference) God would have an inability to save (unless salvation were provided by some other means).
Thanks for being so kind
Calling it like I see it.
Well, no.
Thank. I have another question. At any time during the multiple-posts exchange, did you ever think I was controlling the discussion and/or not providing you with an opportunity to express your views?
 
fastfredy0 said:
.... diving deeper, I believe God is continually recreating creation as implied by:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Hebrews 1:3, Job 34:14-15

That is not what either verse states. The Job text is worded in its antithesis (God's withdrawal) and the Hebrews text states He sustains, brings forth, carries forward, not recreates.
I think that was an 'unfortunate wording' on Freddy's part. I think he is attempting to describe what it means for God to 'maintain' creation/fact. The Simplicity of God suggests that to God there may be no difference between create and maintain. What God does is certainly 'always new'.
 
I have another question. At any time during the multiple-posts exchange, did you ever think I was controlling the discussion and/or not providing you with an opportunity to express your views?
We both control the discussion between us.
The way the forum operates does not allow you to stop me from expressing my views.
 
fastfredy0 said:
.... diving deeper, I believe God is continually recreating creation as implied by:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Hebrews 1:3, Job 34:14-15


I think that was an 'unfortunate wording' on Freddy's part. I think he is attempting to describe what it means for God to 'maintain' creation/fact. The Simplicity of God suggests that to God there may be no difference between create and maintain. What God does is certainly 'always new'.
Why don't you ask him if that is what he meant?
 
Why don't you ask him if that is what he meant?
At the risk of continuing your off topic question: @fastfredy0 wasn't signed on when I wrote that, plus I wanted to expound a little on the principle referenced.

He can read. He was referenced. If I'm wrong (or right) he can comment.
 
At the risk of continuing your off topic question: @fastfredy0 wasn't signed on when I wrote that, plus I wanted to expound a little on the principle referenced.

He can read. He was referenced. If I'm wrong (or right) he can comment.
It's not off topic. I can readily tie God's ability all through Christ and Christ's creative/sustaining faculties to his single-sourced incarnation and divine ontological only-begotten-ness. That was partly why the matter was broached. The salient point of Post 174 is that it's always dubious to speak for others without their consent and even if he disagrees "'unfortunate wording'" may prove to be unfortunate wording ;). I've broached the exact same concern (with different wording). Hebrews says sustains, not re-creates.
 
But then if you say that Jesus Christ was created by God the Father, that goes against the opening of John's gospel:

“1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.” (Joh 1:1-3 NKJV)

“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.” (Joh 1:14 NKJV)



Thank you for taking time to reply to me, I really appreciate the opportunity to discuss this with you.

My comment in summary and simplicity was presenting the idea that I believe that the Bible shows that God was not a father to any humans that had not had a physical birth.

In other words "
Adam and Eve having never been born and Adam and Eve never having been children

Adam and Eve were not children of God as they were never born and never were son and daughter - they were created without having to be born nor come into the world as son and daughter nor children.

Jesus however, was a son, Jesus was a child and Jesus was born and brought into the world as a son .......




Deu 1:31 The LORD thy God bare thee, as a man doth bear his son

here, this can be confusing because a man does not bear children but this word " BEAR " means to carry or to lift or to set up and has nothing to do with " Child Birth "


also we see

Exo 4:22 Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:


I believe that scripture shows that only humans whom are born to a human mother are considered as - " Son or Daughter Of God and that God was a father to Jesus only because Jesus was a child born of a woman.....


Had Jesus -{ THE WORD }- never been born as a Son, God would never had been a father to Jesus

and only the fact that Jesus was born as a son to a human mother is why Jesus is the son of God.

please reply and we can take each part one by one,

 
Thank you for taking time to reply to me, I really appreciate the opportunity to discuss this with you.

My comment in summary and simplicity was presenting the idea that I believe that the Bible shows that God was not a father to any humans that had not had a physical birth.

In other words "
Adam and Eve having never been born and Adam and Eve never having been children

Adam and Eve were not children of God as they were never born and never were son and daughter - they were created without having to be born nor come into the world as son and daughter nor children.

But the bible describes Adam as a son of God:

“37 the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, [the son] of Jared, the son of Mahalalel, the son of Cainan, 38 the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.” (Lu 3:37-38 NKJV)
Jesus however, was a son, Jesus was a child and Jesus was born and brought into the world as a son .......



Deu 1:31 The LORD thy God bare thee, as a man doth bear his son

here, this can be confusing because a man does not bear children but this word " BEAR " means to carry or to lift or to set up and has nothing to do with " Child Birth "


also we see

Exo 4:22 Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:


I believe that scripture shows that only humans whom are born to a human mother are considered as - " Son or Daughter Of God and that God was a father to Jesus only because Jesus was a child born of a woman.....


Had Jesus -{ THE WORD }- never been born as a Son, God would never had been a father to Jesus


and only the fact that Jesus was born as a son to a human mother is why Jesus is the son of God.

please reply and we can take each part one by one,
That certainly shows that to become Man, Jesus Christ has a physical birth, and that His mother was Mary and His Father was God. It doesn't answer my point that John 1 says that Jesus Christ ("the Word") was in the beginning with God, and was God. He was not created.
 
But the bible describes Adam as a son of God:

“37 the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, [the son] of Jared, the son of Mahalalel, the son of Cainan, 38 the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.” (Lu 3:37-38 NKJV)

That certainly shows that to become Man, Jesus Christ has a physical birth, and that His mother was Mary and His Father was God. It doesn't answer my point that John 1 says that Jesus Christ ("the Word") was in the beginning with God, and was God. He was not created.



Thanks so very much " David Lamb " for taking important time to reply to me, i appreciate the great opportunity to discuss this

in defense of what i was explaining, let's look at the example of Melchizedek

Melchizedek was made, created in the " likeness as a resemblance or similar " to a son of God but was not a son of God in the same manner as Jesus nor as humans born as human children ....!

Heb 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Yet, Melchizedek was not of the seed of David, nor was he a Son that was begotten in likeness of sinful flesh,

Melchizedek was never born as a baby / SON - yet, Melchizedek was made similar or likeness as a resemblance or similar " - to the Son Of God......... Melchizedek was not said to be a son of God and was never born on earth as a son whereas Jesus, Anointing / Christ - he was born as a son.

Melchizedek was
never conceived by a woman

Melchizedek and Jesus were very different - Jesus was created in the likeness of sinful flesh, born as a son from a human birth. Melchizedek could never be a "
son of God " - and he could never be born again because he was never born of a woman…
Melchizedek … made like unto the Son of God -
Melchizedek ….. similar to or resembling the Son of God
Melchizedek ….. was never a son of anyone and never a Son of God - he was never born.
similar (in appearance or character): - like, + manner - b
ut not the same as Jesus the Son.
furthermore ............ when we read the King James Translation


we notice
that there are 30 phrases with the words " " SON OF " " in italics
these words are in italics because the phrase " " SON OF " " is not in the Greek manuscripts but are inserted in italics to show that this was inserted by the translators


and even the Catholic Douay Rheims Translation here below simply says

Luk 3:38 Henos, who was of Seth, who was of Adam, who was of God.



the King James Translators placed the words "
" SON OF " " in italics to show that Adam was never called a Son Of God in the original Greek,


here is how the original manuscripts are written


Luk 3:23 And himself it is him Jesus about year thirty and he began and was as supposed son of Joseph - - of Heli


και And - αυτος himself - ην it is - ο him - ιησους Jesus - ωσει about - ετων year - τριακοντα thirty - αρχομενος and he began - ων and was - ως as - ενομιζετο supposed - υιος son - ιωσηφ of Joseph - του of - ηλι Heli


the manuscripts do not continue to next say { which was the son of. }

here below - is exactly how the manuscripts are written

of
Matthat, of Levi, of Melchi, of Janna, of Joseph,
of Mattathias, of Amos, of Naum, of Esli, of Nagge, of Maath, of Mattathias, of Semei, of Joseph, of Juda, of Joanna, of Rhesa, of Zorobabel, of Salathiel, of Neri, of Melchi, of Addi, of Cosam, of Elmodam, of Er, of Jose, of Eliezer, of Jorim, of Matthat, of Levi, of Simeon, of Juda, of Joseph, of Jonan, of Eliakim, of Melea, of Menan, of Mattatha, of Nathan, of David, of Jesse, of Obed, of Booz, of Salmon, of Naasson, of Aminadab, of Aram, of Esrom, of Phares, of Juda, of Jacob, of Isaac, of Abraham, of Thara, of Nachor, of Saruch, of Ragau, of Phalec, of Heber, of Sala, of Cainan, of Arphaxad, of Sem, of Noe, of Lamech, of Mathusala, of Enoch, of Jared, of Maleleel, of Cainan, ------ of Enos, of Seth, of Adam, of God.

the scriptures in Greek simply do not say that Adam was a son of God and the King James place the " " SON OF " " in italics to indicate that this was added into the translation and not a part of the original message.

I believe that the Scriptures show that Melchizedek was said to be made similar and in the likeness of the Son of God but was not the same as Jesus in that he was never born and was never a son born of a woman just as Adam.



there are different meanings and ways in which God is a Father - in different meanings


Jas 1:17 God is " the Father of lights " 18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth

Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and

he " an angel " shall be to me a Son?


even Satan / The Devil is a called " Father "

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.............for he is a liar, and the father of it.


do the scriptures show that Adam and Melchizedek are not Sons of God in the same way that humans whom are born to human mothers .........

do the scriptures show that anyone who is not born as a child to a human mother as a son or daughter - is never considered to be a Child Of God in the same way as one whom is born again

for if one was never born - they can not be reborn / born again...

Angels can not be born again and God does call himself " Father Of Lights " but never a Father of Angels in the same way as humans,

humans whom are born of a woman on earth as sons and daughters of God and are called sons and daughters only because they are created as children -
born to be reborn in the spirit.
 
Thanks so very much " David Lamb " for taking important time to reply to me, i appreciate the great opportunity to discuss this

in defense of what i was explaining, let's look at the example of Melchizedek

Melchizedek was made, created in the " likeness as a resemblance or similar " to a son of God but was not a son of God in the same manner as Jesus nor as humans born as human children ....!

Heb 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Yet, Melchizedek was not of the seed of David, nor was he a Son that was begotten in likeness of sinful flesh,

Melchizedek was never born as a baby / SON - yet, Melchizedek was made similar or likeness as a resemblance or similar " - to the Son Of God......... Melchizedek was not said to be a son of God and was never born on earth as a son whereas Jesus, Anointing / Christ - he was born as a son.

Melchizedek was
never conceived by a woman

Melchizedek and Jesus were very different - Jesus was created in the likeness of sinful flesh, born as a son from a human birth. Melchizedek could never be a "
son of God " - and he could never be born again because he was never born of a woman…
Melchizedek … made like unto the Son of God -
Melchizedek ….. similar to or resembling the Son of God
Melchizedek ….. was never a son of anyone and never a Son of God - he was never born.
similar (in appearance or character): - like, + manner - b
ut not the same as Jesus the Son.
furthermore ............ when we read the King James Translation


we notice
that there are 30 phrases with the words " " SON OF " " in italics
these words are in italics because the phrase " " SON OF " " is not in the Greek manuscripts but are inserted in italics to show that this was inserted by the translators


and even the Catholic Douay Rheims Translation here below simply says

Luk 3:38 Henos, who was of Seth, who was of Adam, who was of God.



the King James Translators placed the words "
" SON OF " " in italics to show that Adam was never called a Son Of God in the original Greek,


here is how the original manuscripts are written


Luk 3:23 And himself it is him Jesus about year thirty and he began and was as supposed son of Joseph - - of Heli


και And - αυτος himself - ην it is - ο him - ιησους Jesus - ωσει about - ετων year - τριακοντα thirty - αρχομενος and he began - ων and was - ως as - ενομιζετο supposed - υιος son - ιωσηφ of Joseph - του of - ηλι Heli


the manuscripts do not continue to next say { which was the son of. }

here below - is exactly how the manuscripts are written

of
Matthat, of Levi, of Melchi, of Janna, of Joseph,
of Mattathias, of Amos, of Naum, of Esli, of Nagge, of Maath, of Mattathias, of Semei, of Joseph, of Juda, of Joanna, of Rhesa, of Zorobabel, of Salathiel, of Neri, of Melchi, of Addi, of Cosam, of Elmodam, of Er, of Jose, of Eliezer, of Jorim, of Matthat, of Levi, of Simeon, of Juda, of Joseph, of Jonan, of Eliakim, of Melea, of Menan, of Mattatha, of Nathan, of David, of Jesse, of Obed, of Booz, of Salmon, of Naasson, of Aminadab, of Aram, of Esrom, of Phares, of Juda, of Jacob, of Isaac, of Abraham, of Thara, of Nachor, of Saruch, of Ragau, of Phalec, of Heber, of Sala, of Cainan, of Arphaxad, of Sem, of Noe, of Lamech, of Mathusala, of Enoch, of Jared, of Maleleel, of Cainan, ------ of Enos, of Seth, of Adam, of God.

the scriptures in Greek simply do not say that Adam was a son of God and the King James place the " " SON OF " " in italics to indicate that this was added into the translation and not a part of the original message.

I believe that the Scriptures show that Melchizedek was said to be made similar and in the likeness of the Son of God but was not the same as Jesus in that he was never born and was never a son born of a woman just as Adam.



there are different meanings and ways in which God is a Father - in different meanings


Jas 1:17 God is " the Father of lights " 18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth

Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and

he " an angel " shall be to me a Son?


even Satan / The Devil is a called " Father "

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.............for he is a liar, and the father of it.


do the scriptures show that Adam and Melchizedek are not Sons of God in the same way that humans whom are born to human mothers .........

do the scriptures show that anyone who is not born as a child to a human mother as a son or daughter - is never considered to be a Child Of God in the same way as one whom is born again

for if one was never born - they can not be reborn / born again...

Angels can not be born again and God does call himself " Father Of Lights " but never a Father of Angels in the same way as humans,

humans whom are born of a woman on earth as sons and daughters of God and are called sons and daughters only because they are created as children -
born to be reborn in the spirit.
Thank you for your reply, and your courtesy, which is much appreciated. Are you saying that Jesus Christ is no different essentially from any human being? I would say that the bible describes Christians as children of God by adoption, whereas Jesus Christ is the Son of God by His very nature.
 
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