WHY I DEFECTED THE RELIGIOUS ESTABLISHMENT

[Arch Stanton]

I would like to believe you (claims SHOULD be verified back to original sources whenever possible).

Do you have a link to the original false claim?

 

[Keiw1]

Whoever said Popes don't sin?

Catholicism try to say the Pope is infallible. Pure lack of faith in God= swiss killers as bodyguards.

 

[atpollard]

Do you have a link to the original false claim?

Yup.
Did you want it or were you just asking?

 

[atpollard]

Ohhhh, So now Peter was the first Pope?

If you reread the post you quoted, he didn’t actually say that.
Your “gotcha” is a bit premature.

 

[Mr GLee]

You should look up [and understand] the word first....

Yes, Eternal God is not a Jewish man as King of kings, after some kind of succession of men from generation to generation .(Apostolical succession) An oral traditons of dying mankind "I heard it through the fathers grape vine"

It is what Satan tried to pull off in Mathew 16. The word is daysman .

He deceived our brother in the Lord Peter but not us today we have the witness.

Mathew 16: 22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Job speaks directly of the matter (not I heard it through the fathers grapevine( false loop hole)

Job 9:32-34King James Version For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment. Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.

In the Bible, a daysman is a judge, arbiter, or umpire. The term comes from the Latin phrase diem dicere, which means "to fix a day for hearing a cause". A daysman is empowered by mutual (man and God) consent to decide a cause, and to enforce their sentence by imposing their authority on both parties.

Christ the head of the bride not seen and not . . . . .dying mankind seen.

 

[Arch Stanton]

Mathew 16: 22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Job speaks directly of the matter (not I heard it through the fathers grapevine( false loop hole)

Job 9:32-34King James Version For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment. Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.

In the Bible, a daysman is a judge, arbiter, or umpire. The term comes from the Latin phrase diem dicere, which means "to fix a day for hearing a cause". A daysman is empowered by mutual (man and God) consent to decide a cause, and to enforce their sentence by imposing their authority on both parties.

Christ the head of the bride not seen and not . . . . .dying mankind seen.

1 Tim 3:15 But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is THE CHURCH of the living God, the PILLAR AND FOUNDATION OF [THE] TRUTH

Mt 16:15-20 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter said in reply, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” Jesus said to him in reply, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. And so I say to you, you are Peter [Kepha], and upon this rock [Kepha] I will build MY CHURCH, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give YOU THE KEYS to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever YOU bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever YOU loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” Then he strictly ordered his disciples to tell no one that he was the Messiah

 

[atpollard]

Let us review ... here is the conversation:

[1] He stated:

The apostle Paul, prophesying under the influence of the Holy Spirit, “hit the nail on the head” when he said this apostate system’s chieftain [Pope] would “take his seat in the temple [place] of God and proclaim himself to be God” (2 Thess. 2:3-4).

And that is precisely what has happened, beginning with the first Pope. Actually, this apostate system didn't have its first Pope until about the 2nd or 3rd century. I can supply the evidence when your ears are open and your heart is receptive.​

[2] You responded:

Ohhhh, So now Peter was the first Pope?

[3] I pointed out:

If you reread the post you quoted, he didn’t actually say that.
Your “gotcha” is a bit premature.

[4] You challenged my point an attacked me:

so now defending a position is 'gotcha'? you still playing

When you are "defending" a position that nobody is making, that is called a STRAWMAN! Congratulations on soundly refuting what NOBODY said (you must be so proud of your accomplishment). If at any point, you care to address ANY of the points actually raised, I will be patiently waiting:

1. The Apostle Paul prophesied against the future Papacy by warning in 2 Thess. 2:3-4 against those that would “take his seat in the temple [place] of God and proclaim himself to be God” ... which is what the Pope as Christ on Earth is/does. - Buff Scott Jr [1]
2. Neither Paul nor Buff Scott Jr ever claimed that Peter was the first pope. [1] vs [2]
3. Your claim that ANYONE said that Peter was the first pope is an attempt to force words into the mouth of your debate opponent. as a "gotcha" claim of victory on the point, it is premature since they never said it. [3] vs [2]
4. What point were you "defending"? It was certainly no point that Buff Scott Jr raised in the post you quoted. [4] vs [2] & [1]
5. Since I am addressing what YOU say and you are ignoring what I actually say, which of us is REALLY "playing games"? [4]

 

[atpollard]

n 1895 Protestant newspaper, “Church Review” and “Evangelical Christendom“, claimed that this was said by Cardinal Sarto, who later became Pope Pius X. The claim by the newspaper was investigated, and found to be false. Cardinal Sarto produced the original document, and all it claimed was that “the pope represents Jesus Christ himself“. Nothing like what was claimed by the anti-Catholics.

I would like to believe you (claims SHOULD be verified back to original sources whenever possible).
Do you have a link to a source of your claim? (That would be helpful to me.)

@Arch Stanton
another STILL UNANSWERED question.

 

[Arch Stanton]

Let us review ... here is the conversation:

post 12 and post 17

 

[Arch Stanton]

@Arch Stanton
another STILL UNANSWERED question.

Do you have a link to the original false claim?

 

[atpollard]

@Arch Stanton
Re post #36 ... see post #26.

Now where is MY answer?

I would like to believe you (claims SHOULD be verified back to original sources whenever possible).
Do you have a link to a source of your claim? (That would be helpful to me.)

 

[Arch Stanton]

@Arch Stanton
Re post #36 ... see post #26.

do you have the link or is it just fake cnnlike news?

 

[atpollard]

do you have the link or is it just fake cnnlike news?

I could ask you the same thing.
Your refusal to provide a source speaks volumes.
Hearsay is inadmissible.

2 Cor 13:1 [NASB] "...EVERY FACT IS TO BE CONFIRMED BY THE TESTIMONY OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES."

 

[Arch Stanton]

I could ask you the same thing.

you responded to my post 12 towards Buff with post 17... post 12 reveals a fake news story that you continued

 

[atpollard]

you responded to my post 12 towards Buff with post 17... post 12 reveals a fake news story that you continued

Post 17 requests your source so we can verify your claims.
You refuse to provide it, therefore I reject your claims as "unsubstantiated rumors".

I am indifferent to what one Bishop or Pope may have said. I just think that if you call someones claim FALSE, you should be willing to back that up with more than YOUR OPINION (and you are not).

I have been through a Catechism for Inquirers and the Pope is the "Vicar of Christ" is the term I believe the Church uses, meaning that the seat of the Pope is the seat of the Authority of Christ on Earth (that whole "key's to Peter" thing). It is what allows a Pope to speak ex cathedra. So even if the specific quote ascribed to the specific person is incorrect ... the warning from Paul is still applicable.

[And you have failed to prove the quote in false by directing us to a source for your rebuttal. I can fabricate statements that say anything I want ... that does not make them true.]

"Archeologists were astounded by the recent discovery. Hidden in the wall of an old church is what is believed to be the actual Bible used by Timothy. It bears an inscription in Greek 'to my beloved child in Christ, Paul'. This discovery confirms what millions have suspected; the Textus Receptus is the ORIGINAL translation of the Holy scripture and the Apostle Paul used the KJV Bible!" - Biblical Archeology Today

 

[Arch Stanton]

I would like to believe you

but you believe the opposite instead... why?

 

[Alive]

Hello folks--please keep discussions of the doctrines coming out of Rome in the RCC sub-forum.

 

[makesends]

1 Tim 3:15 But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is THE CHURCH of the living God, the PILLAR AND FOUNDATION OF [THE] TRUTH

Mt 16:15-20 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter said in reply, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” Jesus said to him in reply, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. And so I say to you, you are Peter [Kepha], and upon this rock [Kepha] I will build MY CHURCH, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give YOU THE KEYS to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever YOU bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever YOU loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” Then he strictly ordered his disciples to tell no one that he was the Messiah

I am curious to hear the logical progression, that doesn't jump steps and takes all available fact into account, that produces from these two passages that the RCC is THE CHURCH, and that there has been since Peter a consecutive replacement designated as such by God.

Once you have proven that, then prove that what Jesus said concerning Peter necessarily places him as first pope, and authority over the rest of the apostles and any that followed in their respective offices.

 

[Mr GLee]

1 Tim 3:15 But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is THE CHURCH of the living God, the PILLAR AND FOUNDATION OF [THE] TRUTH

Mt 16:15-20 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter said in reply, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” Jesus said to him in reply, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. And so I say to you, you are Peter [Kepha], and upon this rock [Kepha] I will build MY CHURCH, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give YOU THE KEYS to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever YOU bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever YOU loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” Then he strictly ordered his disciples to tell no one that he was the Messiah

There simply s no defense aginst all things writen in the law and prophet (sola scriptura) One good teching master as Lord not a legion of dead fathers (necromancy)

“Blessed are you, Simon flesh and blood Peter son of Jonah. For flesh and blood (you did not reveal it to your own self ) , but my heavenly Father. . Call no man Holy father ,Holy See, our vicar Chrsit on earth. . one is our husband Christ in heaven

The same Peter three verses down that turned what was infallibly declared to him to him upside down and rebuked the Lord of glory and forbid the Son of man from doing the will ?

Why if you need dying flesh and blood as your final authority in matters of faith (the unseen eternal) why not chose Jesus the Son of man in whom Peter forbid Was Peter taller, longer beard or wiser than Jesus ?

The church has the foundation of the faith (unseen eternal) as Christ's labor of love as it is written (sola scripture) Not of their own false puffed up pride dying mankind .

Christ's faith that works in us does not come by trusting a law of dead fathers "I heard it through the legion of fathers, the patron saint grape vine" his and hers gods (3500)

Mystics working day and night, New ones being added. Rather than our one Holy Father in heaven ?

Acts22: 3-5 at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day. And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters (from the Pope) unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.

The first century reformation. The 15th century a carbon copy (Hebrew 9) did away with those who murder and torture men and women because they refused to bow down to a Queen mother of heaven denying the authroity of all things written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura)

Same tool today needed to make sola scriptura without efect . As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, we will not hearken unto thee. But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth,
.
Jeremiah 44:16-18King James Version16 As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, we will not hearken unto thee. But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil. But since we left off to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all things, and have been consumed by the sword and by the famine.

Christ put a end to those who mock all things written in the law and prophets in exchange for a queen mother in heaven Rather than worshiping venerating a legion of the dead (patron saints) we worship all things writen in the law and prophets.(sola scriptura)

Acts 24 13-14 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers,(not a legion of father as God ) believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Why make a mockery of the living word .( But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth,)

What is the goal? A queen mother? Limbo . . Purgatory?

According to many sources, Mary visits the souls in purgatory, comforting and helping them in a number of ways.

Does she say so how does she comforts dead people ? Perhaps. . As for the word that Christ has spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, we will not hearken unto thee.

 

[Arch Stanton]

I am curious to hear the logical progression, that doesn't jump steps and takes all available fact into account, that produces from these two passages that the RCC is THE CHURCH, and that there has been since Peter a consecutive replacement designated as such by God.

Do you have any writings from any other church established by Christ in the first millennium? The ECF's were/are Catholic.