Who are they, and where have they come from?

[CrowCross]

Something is symbolic when symbols are used. In the interpretations given from Reformed amil theologians who do so, they obtain the meanings from within their use in the OT. And I don't just go around making up my own. I lean on the writers I trust to do that extensive work, and then I check to see that it isn't far fetched. They will usually give the places from which the symbolism is drawn. And no one gets everything right all the time. Revelation is not a map. What is your basis for saying that Orthodox amillennialist (whatever Orthodox means in that sentence) seem to thrive on speculation. Serious question that I would like an answer to.

You present it as if I have simply made the pre-trib stuff up...have not done extensive work...the scores of writers don't know what they're talking about.

Give me just two examples and the Amillennialist that presented it, and why you think it is speculation.

There is the symbolic 1000 year reign...that is presented as literal 6 times in the passage.
There is the symbolic "mark" that can literally happen world wide.

Is that sarcasm? Would you consider a seal a mark? The believer is sealed in Christ. Is that a visible mark?

They are two different topics. Would you like me to post a link to where current technology is right now concerning a mark?

Compare these two passages:
Rev 13:16-17 It (the beast) causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast and the number of its name.

Deut 6:4-8 "Hear, O Israel: "The Lord our God, the Lord is one. You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might, And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. You shall teach them diligently to our children and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down and when you rise. You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between our eyes.

Symbolic or literal?

How would the second keep one from buying or selling? the first, literally yes.

Comfort isn't a matter of being comfortable. The comfort is that nothing not, even death, can take us out of God's hands. Romans 8. The devil, through world systems has always been making war on the saints. That is what is evident in the news of the day.

Yes, it is in the news today....and will be in the news tomorrow.
The beast system will be world wide

Now, could you please address the other points in my post. Post #112

 

[XrzrX]

Something is symbolic when symbols are used. In the interpretations given from Reformed amil theologians who do so, they obtain the meanings from within their use in the OT. And I don't just go around making up my own. I lean on the writers I trust to do that extensive work, and then I check to see that it isn't far fetched. They will usually give the places from which the symbolism is drawn. And no one gets everything right all the time. Revelation is not a map. What is your basis for saying that Orthodox amillennialist (whatever Orthodox means in that sentence) seem to thrive on speculation. Serious question that I would like an answer to.

Give me just two examples and the Amillennialist that presented it, and why you think it is speculation.

Is that sarcasm? Would you consider a seal a mark? The believer is sealed in Christ. Is that a visible mark?

Compare these two passages:
Rev 13:16-17 It (the beast) causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast and the number of its name.

Deut 6:4-8 "Hear, O Israel: "The Lord our God, the Lord is one. You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might, And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. You shall teach them diligently to our children and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down and when you rise. You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between our eyes.

Symbolic or literal?

Comfort isn't a matter of being comfortable. The comfort is that nothing not, even death, can take us out of God's hands. Romans 8. The devil, through world systems has always been making war on the saints. That is what is evident in the news of the day.

Now, could you please address the other points in my post. Post #112

Interesting you juxtaposed the phylactery with the 'mark' which I noticed years ago, and have never heard anyone else mention.

 

[XrzrX]

You present it as if I have simply made the pre-trib stuff up...have not done extensive work...the scores of writers don't know what they're talking about.

There is the symbolic 1000 year reign...that is presented as literal 6 times in the passage.
There is the symbolic "mark" that can literally happen world wide.

They are two different topics. Would you like me to post a link to where current technology is right now concerning a mark?

How would the second keep one from buying or selling? the first, literally yes.

Yes, it is in the news today....and will be in the news tomorrow.
The beast system will be world wide

This is where "dual" prophesy is possibly a thing.. the "second", the phylactery... symbolic of Deut Law, dead ministry.. "beast system".. 2nd Temple, Solomon.. 666 talents of gold, Queen of the South accusing... and yeah, rabbit hole but.....
..there could be a duality, of the real time destruction of that "system, and now... the same spirit, same war.. on a global scale.

 

[Josheb]

One more post avoiding the logical necessities of Revelation 7:14.

And another one!

Who are they and where have they come from?

Would you accept any explanation that wasn't consistent with modern futurism/Dispensational Premillennialism?

Would you accept any explanation that wasn't consistent with modern futurism/Dispensational Premillennialism? Apparently not.


Do you know what that makes the op (josh asks as if an actual answer will follow)?

What does what the verse states mean relative to the belief Christians do not go through the great tribulation?

They are wrong.

Do you believe we are in the great tribulation...or it has already happened?

Because I cannot get an answer to the question asked and you, apparently, want this to be a thread where only you get to ask questions with an expectation of answers I am moving on. If and when I read an answer to the question asked (which would - when correctly reasoned from - will lead to an answer to all the questions you've posted) I will reconsider. Until then.....


See you in the next op.