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What is Heresy?

Sometimes the OT explains the NT.

An example would be creation. The bible speaks of the first man Adam. Well, what does that mean? Who is that Adam??? Well, go read Gen 1&2. There the OT explained the NT.
That would be an example of the OT informing the NT and the NT explaining the OT (who the first Adam was in relationship to the last Adam), not the other way around.
As I mentioned earlier the OT explain why the NT contains Heb 11. @Carbon didn't like that.
No, it does not. Hebrews 11 explains the original, true meaning of the Tanakh. The Jews had made a muck of it. Tanakh did not mean what the Jews thought it meant and that had to be explained to the early Church, many of whom were former Jews. The entire book of Hebrews does that. Chapter 11 explains how the righteous live by faith (not adherence to the Law) and are made complete in the ecclesia = something the OT hadn't fully reveal. Because it had not then been fully revealed it had to be subsequently revealed and explained.

Dispensational Premillennialism Judaizes the interpretation of the New Testament and that fact is being demonstrated right here, right now, in this thread.
Keep in mind I do agree that the NT explains a lot of the OT.
Yes, but it does not appear you understand what that means.
Then in the OT you have Gen 6....and the book of Enoch explains that in Enoch 6. @Arial didn't like that.
The Book of Enoch is pseudepigraphic. It does not explain anything.
 
The hermeneutic had not been around for a long time. Darby invented it.
You can't prove that. The best you can say is that Darby popularized it.
Prove it.
I already have. You simply dismissed it for the wisdom of men.
Irrelevant. You haven't presented anything here in this thread proving the Dispensational Premillennial hermeneutic was not invented by Darby.
Are you saying the rapture isn't in the bible?
 
Pauline Justification per the Bible refers to HOW we as sinners can get justified before and by a Holy God, NOT talking about after that state, so Wright is reading this doctrine wrongly

“After that state”? Do you realize it is not an experience with a date on it in our lifetime?
 
I am not disagreeing with you, but do not think their understanding rises to the level of being heresy

Then at what point can you find this pattern elaborated in the letter to Hebrews, but fail to treat departure from the pattern as Hebrews does? The letter considers it an egregious departure.

Heb 6:6??? To re-crucify Christ? Isn’t that the superlative, the actual apostasy that is warned against so earnestly?
 
From a reknown and respected NT scholar
earn.ligonier.org/articles/wright-wrong-imputation

Can you try again, and I'll look for others by him on that term. The page was not found. I dropped the 'earn' and that was 404.
 
Can you try again, and I'll look for others by him on that term. The page was not found. I dropped the 'earn' and that was 404.
You found nothing yet? It's hard to believe you're even looking.
To start, try looking at his teaching on the role of works in final justification.

That there should be enough. If not, it's a start anyway. :cool:
 
N.T. Wright Is Wrong on Imputation by Thomas Schreiner

Yes, I agree with Schreiner that Wright has missed the sense. I believe I heard him speak on this, and the etymology of justification was Roman, and there is the sense that the Caesar was nepotistic. That means that a dubious person was 'justified' (thumb up from Caesar) if Caesar so decided, apart from the person's character. Capriciously. That is the only angle I can see that would favor Wright, in its focus on God being the only true 'Caesar' who can do that. But we know that crediting draws upon outside resources, as in Lk 17. Luther called this alien.

I'm surprised no one mentioned Ezek 18. In the normal sense, the only 'sin-debt' credit a person has is their own righteousness. That is the moral sense Wright is missing, so that in the NT, the moral accomplishment of Christ (his life, Rom 5B) can be credited. Btw, Islam prohibits any mention of imputation.

We know that to do so is considered scandalous from Rom 5's progression about the ungodly person.

But language and human communication, and even Biblical passages are not always as complete as we would like. Even Biblical passages do not always contain the qualifier would know is meant, and we wish was there. As you may know, this led Jefferson to reduce the sayings of Jesus to the non-miraculous and non-hyperbolic.

My go-to example of incompleteness is Gen 1:16's dangling '...and the stars also.' This is a huge statement, and I operate a creation journal about this, on the basis that 'kavov' (distant stars) are not the local 'shama-raqiy' (heaven-firmament), and are not even the subject of Gen 1.

So has Wright responded specifically to Schreiner? That would be helpful to see.

And my next question for Wright is about the objective genitive, for ex., Gal 2:20. Should it read 'by faith in the Son of God' (in which 'pistis' is subjective, ie, the believer's faith amount), vs. 'by the reliability of the Son of God' (in which 'pistis' is the perfect accomplishment of Christ). There are other important instances.

In that case, that's two strikes.

I would think he would have a huge problem with Rom 5B, too, because some of those 'righteousnesses' must be the 'doing' of Jesus (--Luther).

I mean, are we really supposed to think that Jesus was a wild youth the rest of the time? Instead we know from Mk 3 about his family that he was very much settled in the usual customs of Judaism, because it is after the divine commissioning and anointing that the family seeks to collect him for being controversial or scandalous.
 
You can't prove that. The best you can say is that Darby popularized it.
Nice try. The claim disputed is that Darby invented the hermeneutic used in Dispensational Premillennialism. You claimed that is not the case. The onus is on you to prove the hermeneutic was used prior to Darby and the development of Dispensational Premillennialism. Dispensational Premillennialism did not exist prior to the early to mid-1800s. There were people who wrote about dispensations but they never separated dispensations from the covenants, and they never held the Bible to be discontinuous. There were people who wrote about dispensations and some of them were premillennial, but they were Historic Premillennialists, not Dispensational Premillennialists. People like Isaac Watts were Reformed-minded Covenant Theology subscribers that would have argued against Darbyism with every breath. I question whether you can even list the precepts of the Dispensational Premillennial hermeneutic. Most articles by Dispensationalists on Dispensational Premillennialist hermeneutic focus of the grammatico-historical method but that is not the whole of the DP hermeneutic.

List three of the basic the hermeneutic precepts (i've just given you one of them) and show us three examples of any mainstream, orthodox theologian using the hermeneutic Dispensational Premillennialists use and the matter will instantly be resolved. I'll openly state I my post was incorrect and I will never post that mistake again.

Of course, everyone here knows no such proof will be posted because you do not answer questions when asked to do so.
 
You found nothing yet? It's hard to believe you're even looking.
To start, try looking at his teaching on the role of works in final justification.

That there should be enough. If not, it's a start anyway. :cool:

When a person wants an exact thing read, I try to find it, and there was a typo (earn for learn) and I had to go another way.

So now, what is your article on this about Wright on works in final justification, and what is final justification?

Do you have an article in which he responds to Schreiner?
 
The claim disputed is that Darby invented the hermeneutic used in Dispensational Premillennialism. You claimed that is not the case.
I have shown Darby didn't invent it.
As an example I present the following:
---------------------------------------------------------------
Evidence of pretribulationism surfaces during the early medieval period in a sermon
some attribute to Ephraem the Syrian, but more likely the product of one scholars call
Pseudo-Ephraem, entitled Sermon on The Last Times, The Antichrist, and The End of the
World
.
5 The sermon was written some time between the fourth and sixth century. The
rapture statement reads as follows:
Why therefore do we not reject every care of earthly actions and prepare
ourselves for the meeting of the Lord Christ, so that he may draw us from
the confusion, which overwhelms all the world? . . . For all the saints and
elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are
taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world
because of our sins.​
---------------------------------------------------------------
The above came from this article with several other examples.

I don't really intend to debate you on this FACT anymore as historical proof has been provided to you.
 
I have shown Darby didn't invent it.
As an example I present the following:
---------------------------------------------------------------
Evidence of pretribulationism surfaces during the early medieval period in a sermon
some attribute to Ephraem the Syrian, but more likely the product of one scholars call
Pseudo-Ephraem, entitled Sermon on The Last Times, The Antichrist, and The End of the
World
.
5 The sermon was written some time between the fourth and sixth century. The
rapture statement reads as follows:
Why therefore do we not reject every care of earthly actions and prepare
ourselves for the meeting of the Lord Christ, so that he may draw us from
the confusion, which overwhelms all the world? . . . For all the saints and
elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are
taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world
because of our sins.​
---------------------------------------------------------------
The above came from this article with several other examples.

I don't really intend to debate you on this FACT anymore as historical proof has been provided to you.
First of all, that is a second-hand report of a pseudepigraphic source. It's not an actual example of a hermeneutic existing prior to Darby. Pseudo-Ephaem is pseudepigraphic. It's not scripture. It's not orthodox, either. This is one of the problems within Dispensational Premillennialism: they try to justify the theology using outlying points of view and extra-scriptural sources. In other words, they lie. They say Person A and Person B said X, Y, and Z but they never tell you Person A and B were heretics and X, Y, and Z were either outlying positions or heresies. That quote from Pseuo-Ephream also does not provide a hermeneutic. That quote is simply a position statement. It says absolutely nothing about how the author arrived at that position.

All you proved was some faker writing in the 500s AD was premillennial. You did not prove he is a legitimate source anyone should consider valid and you did not prove he was dispensational or dispensationally premillennial. You have not, therefore, proven Darby hermeneutic existed prior to Darby. Do you understand what a hermeneutic is? I asked you to provide just three of the precepts of the Dispensational Premillennial hermeneutic. As expected, that request was ignored. No one can prove the existence of a specific hermeneutic if they do not know what that hermeneutic is.




Please give us any three of the basic, necessary precepts of the Dispensational Premillennial hermeneutic and then provide proof that hermeneutic existed prior to Darby.


If you do not do so in the next post, I will post the DP hermeneutic myself and ask you again to provide proof Darby was not the who invented that hermeneutic. Beat me to the post by showing you know what you're talking about (the precepts of the DP hermeneutic) and then post proof of its existence prior to Darby.
 
Prove it or kindly retract your post.
??????

Prove Post 210 is a second-hand account? Sure. You did not write Pseudo-Ephraim. Ephraim did not write Pseudo-Ephraim. Post 210 explicitly states, "The sermon was written some time between the fourth and sixth century." That means Pseudo-Ephraim is post-canonical. It is extra-canonical. It is not part of the canon of scripture. Ephrem the Syrian lived between 306-373 but the earliest dating for The Apocalypse of Pseudo-Ephraim is in the 400s (most scholars date it much later). Your own post states it was written as late as the sixth century! If it was written in the 400s or the 500s then it is definitely not written by Ephrem of Syria. The name of the book states it is pseudepigraphic. That is why it is called Pseudo-Ephrem. The meaning of the prefix "pseudo-" literally means "false," "pretended," "unreal," or "imitation". "Pseudo-science is not real science, any more than pseudo-intellectual is true intellect, a pseudopod has real feet, and a pseudonym is a real name. Mark Twain is the pseudonym of Samuel Clemens. Geroge Orwell is the pseudonym of Eric Arthur Blair. George Eliot's real name was Mary Ann Evans! The reason the Apocalypse of Pseudo-Ephraim is names pseudo-Ephraim is because Ephraim was not the actual author!

I have just proved Post 210 is a second-hand report, and Pseudo-Ephram is a second-hand report.

Now.....

Since you have not answered the question asked but have instead obfuscated and delayed proving Darby's hermeneutic was used prior to Darby, I will provide the correct answer without further delay or obfuscation. According to Lewis Sperry Chafer and Charles Caldwell Ryrie, in their books, each titled "Dispensationalism," the book later Dispensational Premillennialists like John Walvoord, Thomas Ice, Michael Vlach and other all reference, the Dispensational Premillennial hermeneutic is...

  1. Literal interpretation of scripture. This is defined by Ryioe as, "Literalism means giving every word the same meaning it would have in normal usage, whether employed in writing, speaking, or thinking".
  2. Grammatical-Historical Method: This is a hermeneutical approach that examines scripture in the context of grammar and history of the time in which it was written.
  3. Consistency: Scripture must consistently be interpreted literally and not allegorically or spiritualized.
  4. Distinction between Israel and the Church: Scripture must always be read and interpreted with the understanding Israel and the Chhurch are never the same. As such God has a different "program" or purpose for Israel than He does for the Church. Two different people. Two different purposes. All scripture must be understood with this in mind. Therefore, Old Testament promises made to the national of Israel are always to be interpreted literally, applied solely to Israel, and are expected to be fulfilled by Israel as a nation in a future earthly kingdom (the Millennium), not reinterpreted and applied to the Church.
  5. Progressive Revelation: The Bible is a continually unfolding revelation of God's plan, with each dispensation introducing new responsibilities and a different "economy" in God's outworking of His purpose.
  6. Scripture is to be read and understood within the dispensation in which the text occurs. A dispensation is a distinct period of time during which God manages His relationship with humanity according to a specific stewardship or economy God has declared. Dispensations are different than covenants and they may or may not coincide or overlap scripture's report of covenants.
  7. Scripture is largely discontinuous, not continuous. The New Testament can build upon the Old Testament but does not change the original meaning of Old Testament promises. One dispensation is not related to nor dependent upon any prior dispensation other than as a function of God's revelation progressing through history.


HERE is one of the original sources in which the above can be verified. HERE is another.

One or two of these precepts can be found in use prior to Darby, but the whole cannot. For example, the grammatico-historical model was used long before Darby was born. There's nothing new to Darby using that long-existing model but Darby mdofied the model by requiring scripture always be read literally, eschewing any and all legitimacy to other models, especially when it comes to allegorical content. The traditional use of the grammatico-historical approach does not exclude or deny the existence of allegorical content. It, instead, seeks to understand allegorical content in the context of its historical context. Another example would be the use of the word "dispensation." That specific word can be found in scripture and it can be found in extra-biblical sources beginning with the ECFs but none of them defined a dispensation the way Darby (or Chafer, Ryrie, Walvoord, Ice or any other DPist) does. The ECFs always used the word "dispensation" in the context of and consistent with covenant. Other sources are cited by the leading Dispensationalists, such as the aforementioned Pseudo-Ephraim are not canonical and they are often written by people considered outside the pale of orthodoxy. Some of them were excommunicated and/or considered heretics. Theologians using the word after the 1500s were overwhelmedly Reformed Theology and Covenant Theology thinkers. Isaac Watts would be an example of this. Watts was a covenantalist, NOT a Dispensationalist. He was also known to be nonconformist (in other words, his views were not always consistent with orthodoxy). He NEVER used the word "dispensation" the way Darby did. Many of these theologians were also premillennialists but they were all Historical Premillennialists, not Dispensational Premillennialists (basic distinctions between the two premillennial models can be found HERE).

There is no evidence anyone prior to Darby held to all of the seven principles above when reading scripture. This was Darby's invention, an assemblage of various approaches to scripture into an amalgam unique to Darby.

The onus is on you, @CrowCross, to prove otherwise, and you did not do so despite multiple opportunities to do so.
 
Well, it is a sign and a seal. I'm finding it difficult to understand why you don't see that.

A sign of what? A seal for what? A credo-baptist can agree with that but understand it in anthropoligical terms rather than covenantal.

I see the term "Dipsy" as being derogatory.

I agree.

Thats fine, as to me its not a dividing essential doctrine of the faith which mode of water baptism

"Credo-baptist" does not refer to the how of baptism (mode) but the who of baptism (believers only).
 
When a person wants an exact thing read, I try to find it, and there was a typo (earn for learn) and I had to go another way.

So now, what is your article on this about Wright on works in final justification, and what is final justification?

Do you have an article in which he responds to Schreiner?

the reason for asking about 'final' justification is that there may be a built-in error in the question that causes confusion downstream.
 
??????

Prove Post 210 is a second-hand account? Sure. You did not write Pseudo-Ephraim. Ephraim did not write Pseudo-Ephraim. Post 210 explicitly states, "The sermon was written some time between the fourth and sixth century." That means Pseudo-Ephraim is post-canonical. It is extra-canonical. It is not part of the canon of scripture. Ephrem the Syrian lived between 306-373 but the earliest dating for The Apocalypse of Pseudo-Ephraim is in the 400s (most scholars date it much later). Your own post states it was written as late as the sixth century! If it was written in the 400s or the 500s then it is definitely not written by Ephrem of Syria. The name of the book states it is pseudepigraphic. That is why it is called Pseudo-Ephrem. The meaning of the prefix "pseudo-" literally means "false," "pretended," "unreal," or "imitation". "Pseudo-science is not real science, any more than pseudo-intellectual is true intellect, a pseudopod has real feet, and a pseudonym is a real name. Mark Twain is the pseudonym of Samuel Clemens. Geroge Orwell is the pseudonym of Eric Arthur Blair. George Eliot's real name was Mary Ann Evans! The reason the Apocalypse of Pseudo-Ephraim is names pseudo-Ephraim is because Ephraim was not the actual author!

I have just proved Post 210 is a second-hand report, and Pseudo-Ephram is a second-hand report.

Now.....

Since you have not answered the question asked but have instead obfuscated and delayed proving Darby's hermeneutic was used prior to Darby, I will provide the correct answer without further delay or obfuscation. According to Lewis Sperry Chafer and Charles Caldwell Ryrie, in their books, each titled "Dispensationalism," the book later Dispensational Premillennialists like John Walvoord, Thomas Ice, Michael Vlach and other all reference, the Dispensational Premillennial hermeneutic is...

  1. Literal interpretation of scripture. This is defined by Ryioe as, "Literalism means giving every word the same meaning it would have in normal usage, whether employed in writing, speaking, or thinking".
  2. Grammatical-Historical Method: This is a hermeneutical approach that examines scripture in the context of grammar and history of the time in which it was written.
  3. Consistency: Scripture must consistently be interpreted literally and not allegorically or spiritualized.
  4. Distinction between Israel and the Church: Scripture must always be read and interpreted with the understanding Israel and the Chhurch are never the same. As such God has a different "program" or purpose for Israel than He does for the Church. Two different people. Two different purposes. All scripture must be understood with this in mind. Therefore, Old Testament promises made to the national of Israel are always to be interpreted literally, applied solely to Israel, and are expected to be fulfilled by Israel as a nation in a future earthly kingdom (the Millennium), not reinterpreted and applied to the Church.
  5. Progressive Revelation: The Bible is a continually unfolding revelation of God's plan, with each dispensation introducing new responsibilities and a different "economy" in God's outworking of His purpose.
  6. Scripture is to be read and understood within the dispensation in which the text occurs. A dispensation is a distinct period of time during which God manages His relationship with humanity according to a specific stewardship or economy God has declared. Dispensations are different than covenants and they may or may not coincide or overlap scripture's report of covenants.
  7. Scripture is largely discontinuous, not continuous. The New Testament can build upon the Old Testament but does not change the original meaning of Old Testament promises. One dispensation is not related to nor dependent upon any prior dispensation other than as a function of God's revelation progressing through history.


HERE is one of the original sources in which the above can be verified. HERE is another.

One or two of these precepts can be found in use prior to Darby, but the whole cannot. For example, the grammatico-historical model was used long before Darby was born. There's nothing new to Darby using that long-existing model but Darby mdofied the model by requiring scripture always be read literally, eschewing any and all legitimacy to other models, especially when it comes to allegorical content. The traditional use of the grammatico-historical approach does not exclude or deny the existence of allegorical content. It, instead, seeks to understand allegorical content in the context of its historical context. Another example would be the use of the word "dispensation." That specific word can be found in scripture and it can be found in extra-biblical sources beginning with the ECFs but none of them defined a dispensation the way Darby (or Chafer, Ryrie, Walvoord, Ice or any other DPist) does. The ECFs always used the word "dispensation" in the context of and consistent with covenant. Other sources are cited by the leading Dispensationalists, such as the aforementioned Pseudo-Ephraim are not canonical and they are often written by people considered outside the pale of orthodoxy. Some of them were excommunicated and/or considered heretics. Theologians using the word after the 1500s were overwhelmedly Reformed Theology and Covenant Theology thinkers. Isaac Watts would be an example of this. Watts was a covenantalist, NOT a Dispensationalist. He was also known to be nonconformist (in other words, his views were not always consistent with orthodoxy). He NEVER used the word "dispensation" the way Darby did. Many of these theologians were also premillennialists but they were all Historical Premillennialists, not Dispensational Premillennialists (basic distinctions between the two premillennial models can be found HERE).

There is no evidence anyone prior to Darby held to all of the seven principles above when reading scripture. This was Darby's invention, an assemblage of various approaches to scripture into an amalgam unique to Darby.

The onus is on you, @CrowCross, to prove otherwise, and you did not do so despite multiple opportunities to do so.
Post 210 provided an example of early christians presenting the rapture. The article goes on to state....
This statement evidences a clear belief that all Christians will escape the tribulation
through a gathering to the Lord and is stated early in the sermon. How else can this be
understood other than as pretribulational? The later second coming of Christ to the
earth with the saints is mentioned at the end of the sermon.


Darby didn't invent it. I will say Darby popularized the truth behind the rapture.

Here's another example...

THE REFORMATION CHURCH

After over a thousand years of suppression, premillennialism began to be revived as
a result of at least four factors. By the late 1500's and the early 1600’s, premillennialism
began to return as a factor within mainstream Protestantism. With the flowering of
biblical interpretation during the late Reformation Period, premillennial interpreters
began to abound throughout Protestantism and so did the development of sub-issues
like the rapture.

Some began to speak of the rapture. Paul Benware notes:

Peter Jurieu in his book Approaching Deliverance of the Church (1687) taught
that Christ would come in the air to rapture the saints and return to heaven
before the battle of Armageddon. He spoke of a secret Rapture prior to His
coming in glory and judgment at Armageddon. Philip Doddridge's
commentary on the New Testament (1738) and John Gill's commentary on
the New Testament (1748) both use the term rapture and speak of it as
imminent. It is clear that these men believed that this coming will precede
Christ's descent to the earth and the time of judgment. The purpose was to
preserve believers from the time of judgment. James Macknight (1763) andPre-Trib Rapture — Ice — Page 3
Thomas Scott (1792) taught that the righteous will be carried to heaven,
where they will be secure until the time of judgment is over.8

A link to the article was presented above.

Once again....Darby didn't invent the pre-trib rapture.
 
A sign of what? A seal for what? A credo-baptist can agree with that but understand it in anthropoligical terms rather than covenantal.



I agree.



"Credo-baptist" does not refer to the how of baptism (mode) but the who of baptism (believers only).
Agreed, as believers water baptism does seem to fit the biblical examples better
 
The hermeneutic had not been around for a long time. Darby invented it.

Prove it.

Irrelevant. You haven't presented anything here in this thread proving the Dispensational Premillennial hermeneutic was not invented by Darby.
Think very valid case can be made though for historical premil eschatology, not so much Dispensational view of it
Yes, many early church fathers believed in a literal thousand-year reign of Christ on Earth after His second coming, a belief known as historic premillennialism. Prominent figures like Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, and Papias held this view, though it wasn't a unanimous or singular belief, as some early writers like Origen held different interpretations.

  • Premillennialism was a significant early view: Many of the most influential figures in the first few centuries of Christianity, particularly in the second century, held a premillennial view.
  • Specific examples include:
    • Irenaeus (c. 130–202 AD): Envisioned a future earthly kingdom with a rebuilt Jerusalem.
    • Justin Martyr (c. 100–165 AD): Taught a literal millennium but noted that other Christians did not share this view.
    • Papias (c. 60–130 AD): Described a literal thousand-year rule of Christ on Earth, reportedly based on the apostles' accounts.
      • Tertullian (c. 155–240 AD): Defended the "millennial hope" against his opponents.
 
Think very valid case can be made though for historical premil eschatology, not so much Dispensational view of it.
That is correct.
Yes, many early church fathers believed in a literal thousand-year reign of Christ on Earth after His second coming, a belief known as historic premillennialism. Prominent figures like Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, and Papias held this view, though it wasn't a unanimous or singular belief, as some early writers like Origen held different interpretations.

  • Premillennialism was a significant early view: Many of the most influential figures in the first few centuries of Christianity, particularly in the second century, held a premillennial view.
  • Specific examples include:
    • Irenaeus (c. 130–202 AD): Envisioned a future earthly kingdom with a rebuilt Jerusalem.
    • Justin Martyr (c. 100–165 AD): Taught a literal millennium but noted that other Christians did not share this view.
    • Papias (c. 60–130 AD): Described a literal thousand-year rule of Christ on Earth, reportedly based on the apostles' accounts.
      • Tertullian (c. 155–240 AD): Defended the "millennial hope" against his opponents.
Dispensational Premillennialism is not identical to Historical Premillennialism. Not all premillennialisms are the same. ALL you were asked to provide is three precepts from the Dispensational Premillennialist hermeneutic and prove the hermeneutic pre-existed Darby.
Think very valid case can be made though for historical premil eschatology, not so much Dispensational view of it....
Irrelevant. What was requested was three precepts from the Dispensational Premillennialist hermeneutic and proof that hermeneutic existed prior to Darby. That has not happened.

It would be nice if, at least on occasion, you would acknowledge the facts in evidence. I posted the DP hermeneutic and provided two means within DPism by which that content can and should be acknowledged and confirmed.

"Yes, Josh, that is a fair and accurate presentation of Dispensational Premillennialism's hermeneutic."

How hard is that to do?
 
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