What did John Wesley hold that Calvinist disagree with?

[Arial]

It's clear to me. God is love.

Is that all he is?

If not, what else is he?

 

[Paul]

Is that all he is?

If not, what else is he?

I guess you ignored the rest of the post about a God that does not desire any to perish. Satan is the one who tricks, lies, tempts and deceives and leads the whole world astray not God. If Satan had control of our wills he would not need to lie and deceive people. Gods will is stated by Peter as was shown. We pray may God's will be done on earth as is in heaven. Anyway, your theology cannot know who God has chosen or not as the thief on the cross was forgiven of his sins on his very last day of life in the body. So, your theology really is not helpful. We are taught to pray for and forgive even our enemies so as to be like our Father in heaven.

God is Spirit.

These forums seem to hold to Calvinism, and I have no desire to debate ad nauseam with those who have such a mindset. Man is capable of seeking the truth and we should pray for others that they may find that truth.

 

[Josheb]

These forums seem to hold to Calvinism, and I have no desire to debate ad nauseam with those who have such a mindset. Man is capable of seeking the truth and we should pray for others that they may find that truth.

You might consider putting on your big boy panties and engaging the discussions topically regardless how others are oriented. Would you like people to say, "You, Paul, seem to believe X so I have no interest in discussing anything with you"? How would insinuating you're not seeking truth be helpful? If you're ideas cannot withstand exposure to Calvinism then perhaps your apologetic skills are not yet where they could be and a Calvinist-populated forum would be the perfect place for God to bring you to hone those skills.

And maybe learn a little patience, kindness, humbleness, forbearance, grace, etc. Everyone here is ostensibly working on the goal of mutual affection, regardless of whatever else they're doing.

I guess you ignored the rest of the post about a God that does not desire any to perish.

I guess you ignored that part about God having multiple co-existing desires that all get satisfied. He desires to save all but He also desires to mete out the just recompense for sin. Those two desires do not compete with one another. God, and God alone, can save some and destroy others. It has absolutely nothing to do with Calvinism and everything with understanding the whole of scripture and basic logic.

Satan is the one who tricks, lies, tempts and deceives and leads the whole world astray not God.

Is Satan leading you astray? Other than Judas, which of the apostles did Satan permanently lead away from Christ? Satan certainly does lead many astray, but Satan is a defeated enemy who, like all of humanity, is dead in sin. Satan is just as enslaved by his own disobedience as anyone else. Is his destiny decided or not? When you appeal to God not wanting any to die, do you apply that verse to Satan and think God doesn't want to destroy Satan; He desires to save Satan? Or do you hold that "everyone applies only to humans? Satan does lead others astray but there is something much more powerful, much more influential leading others astray: human flesh. Sin isn't a thing; it is the absence of a thing, and an absence of righteousness, faith, and doing good is very appealing to the flesh. Satan is not needed so let's not over-spiritualize the problem. Let's take ownership of it.

So.....

Is that all he is? If not, what else is he?

I guess you ignored the rest of the post about a God that does not desire any to perish. Satan is the one who tricks, lies, tempts and deceives and leads the whole world astray not God. If Satan had control of our wills he would not need to lie and deceive people. Gods will is stated by Peter as was shown. We pray may God's will be done on earth as is in heaven. Anyway, your theology cannot know who God has chosen or not as the thief on the cross was forgiven of his sins on his very last day of life in the body. So, your theology really is not helpful. We are taught to pray for and forgive even our enemies so as to be like our Father in heaven.

God is Spirit.

These forums seem to hold to Calvinism, and I have no desire to debate ad nauseam with those who have such a mindset. Man is capable of seeking the truth and we should pray for others that they may find that truth.

...how about you answer @Arial's questions and not avoid them. They are very relevant to this thread and I, for one, am curious about your answers. Your answer should be something like, "No, God is not just one thing, and it is inappropriate to define God singularly..." and then you proceed to explain what it is you mean when claiming God is love knowing God is not ONLY love.

Do you consider ridding the world of sin an act of love? Is the God who is Spirit capable of ridding the entire world of sin in a manner consistent with his also being love?

These are fairly simple and definitely relevant questions that your posts beg to be asked and answered. Please do not run away because you don't like debating Cals. Lean into it .

 

[Arial]

I guess you ignored the rest of the post about a God that does not desire any to perish

I ignored nothing. The scripture you gave was isolated from all contexts, including the surrounding context and who Paul was writing to when he wrote the snippet of Scripture that you quote. You created a doctrine out of thin air. That is why I asked if God is only love, and if not, what else is he. My purpose was to hopefully encourage you to think about all that God is and discover that one isolated sentence in the middle of a letter is not enough to establish a doctrine. And that even put into the context of who God is, alone, would be enough to arouse the possibility that the interpretation and doctrine you took from that one passage, is not compatible with who God is.

So, let's look at the attributes of God that we obtain from his self revelation in our Bible.

The Natural Attributes

• Eternal
• Self-Existent
• Immutable
• Omnipotent
• Oniscient
• Omnipresent
• Sovereign
• Spirit
• Wise
• Triune

Moral Attibutes of God

• Holy
• Righteous and Just
• Love
• Merciful and Gracious
• Faithful
• Truth
• Good
• Compassionate
• Jealous (for His Glory
• Longsuffering (patient_

The moral attributes can never override or cancel out the natural attributes and vice versa, or each other. Does your interpretation of 2 Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance."; does it create any contradictions within the moral and natural attributes of God? A thoughtful answer will see that it does.

I am able to show you through exegesis how to interpret it so there are no contradictions within the attributes of God. It requires it to be put into the context of the surrounding verses and who Peter is writing to. I will happily do so if you would like, but in a separate post so this one will not get any longer. I hope that curiosity would lead you to ask. It really has nothing to do with Calvinism, other than Calvinism agrees with it.

Thanks