Union with Christ and the Ordo Salutis

[Carbon]

The first step of regeneration, is it from sin to holiness. Or.
From a sinful state and nature to Christ that we may be made holy by Him?

In other words:
Are we made clean first, or are we joined to Christ first?

 

[Mr GLee]

The first step of regeneration, is it from sin to holiness. Or.
From a sinful state and nature to Christ that we may be made holy by Him?

In other words:
Are we made clean first, or are we joined to Christ first?

I would think one action, washing renewing.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost

 

[Binyawmene]

The first step of regeneration, is it from sin to holiness. Or.
From a sinful state and nature to Christ that we may be made holy by Him?

In other words:
Are we made clean first, or are we joined to Christ first?

I would assume holiness is the result of regeneration.

Example:
Results of one who is born again (or regeneration)

1. believes in Jesus Christ (1 John 5:1)
2. showing righteousness (1 John 2:29)
3. showing love (1 John 4:7)
4. not repeating sins (1 John 3:9, 5:18)
5. overcoming the world through faith (1 John 5:4)

From my opinion, logically the "Union With Christ" precedes before "Regeneration," and "Union With Christ" coincide in the same instance of time in "Regeneration" (Ephesians 2:5, Colossians 2:13). While some people suggest sanctification first occurs simultaneously with justification and not with regeneration. That is, the moment you surrender your life to Christ. Then justification precedes sanctification, but temporally, they occur simultaneously. After you was saved and received impartation or supernaturally created sanctification by the Holy Spirit. Then the first act of obedience is when a person decides to turn away from their sin and follow God. This decision is usually accompanied by a desire to receive God’s forgiveness from committing sin after you was recently saved. This turning away from sin is the Present: Progressive Stage (continuously increasing in holiness) because it is a recognition that we are sinners who need God’s forgiveness.

 

[ReverendRV]

The first step of regeneration, is it from sin to holiness. Or.
From a sinful state and nature to Christ that we may be made holy by Him?

In other words:
Are we made clean first, or are we joined to Christ first?

We are Cleansed first. The first step of Regeneration in Calvinism, is life. Calvinism places Regeneration/spiritual life before Faith, Arminianism places Regeneration/spiritual Life, after Faith. In Provisionism, spiritual life already exists; then by faith, they gain Eternal Life, Grace and Regeneration...

Kind of backwards, ain't it?

 

[PeanutGallery]

The first step of regeneration, is it from sin to holiness. Or.
From a sinful state and nature to Christ that we may be made holy by Him?

In other words:
Are we made clean first, or are we joined to Christ first?

Christ washes us from our sins as we are joined to Christ.

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

 

[Mr GLee]

Christ washes us from our sins after we are joined to Christ.

I would think as we are joined.

Much has do with how people view the second death to what it is . Some say a second trial awaits.

 

[PeanutGallery]

I would think as we are joined. ...

Thanks; rephrased. That is inline with reconciliation.

 

[Binyawmene]

I would think one action, washing renewing.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost

One action? In Titus 3:5 is in reference to the already saved "he saved us" (past tense), It's the result of one who is already saved (washing and renewing). I would assume that Paul is not giving us a list of ordo salutis, but merely stating the one out of many subsequences after regeneration, which is the renewing or sanctification.

 

[ReverendRV]

I would think one action, washing renewing.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost

I say we're Saved by the Washing of Regeneration, through Faith; and by the Renewal of the Spirit...

In this Logical Order...

 

[Carbon]

The first step of regeneration, is it from sin to holiness. Or.
From a sinful state and nature to Christ that we may be made holy by Him?

In other words:
Are we made clean first, or are we joined to Christ first?

I believe we would have to be joined to Christ first.

The fruit of faith needs a root, a dead root won't work.

 

[Binyawmene]

I believe we would have to be joined to Christ first.

The fruit of faith needs a root, a dead root won't work.

Amen. Just like Galatians 2:20 says,

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheles I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.​

But some people might say that saving faith is before union of Christ.

Ephesians 3:17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love,​

 

[Mr GLee]

I say we're Saved by the Washing of Regeneration, through Faith; and by the Renewal of the Spirit...

In this Logical Order...

Logical order ? God moving first.

Its all together one work of the faith of God's labor of love . "Let there be" and the good testimony that God has spoken. "it was God alone good".

The mark of his word .What He says comes to pass . We work out our gift of salvation as He works with us to both give us ears to hear and a new heart to do the will to his good pleasure .

 

[Mr GLee]

One action? In Titus 3:5 is in reference to the already saved "he saved us" (past tense), It's the result of one who is already saved (washing and renewing). I would assume that Paul is not giving us a list of ordo salutis, but merely stating the one out of many subsequences after regeneration, which is the renewing or sanctification.

Yes. His one action (let there be) The washing and renewing with the water of the word. The doctrines inspired from above, not inspired of earthly of the devil .

Either he powerfully performs all that is appointed to us making our heart soft. Or he has done nothing.

God is not served by the dying hands of mankind.

He can use a unbeliever to preach the gospel just as easily as one that does believe.Having been given the faith from God do do so he makes salvation possible

 

[Carbon]

Yes. His one action (let there be) The washing and renewing with the water of the word. The doctrines inspired from above, not inspired of earthly of the devil .

Either he powerfully performs all that is appointed to us making our heart soft. Or he has done nothing.

God is not served by the dying hands of mankind.

He can use a unbeliever to preach the gospel just as easily as one that does believe.Having been given the faith from God do do so he makes salvation possible

Possible?

 

[Josheb]

The first step of regeneration, is it from sin to holiness. Or.
From a sinful state and nature to Christ that we may be made holy by Him?

In other words:
Are we made clean first, or are we joined to Christ first?

I'm inclined to say cleansed, sanctified, or made sinless first BUT I do not think the two are mutually exclusive conditions since the purpose of the cleansing is life in Christ. I might, therefore, add a third component: made alive. We are brought from death to life, from dead in sin to life in Christ and that necessarily entails being made clean and separated (made holy) specifically for Christ. God does not separate us to live on our own independent of Him. That would be a recipe for more hell, not its absence. We are separated for sacred purpose in God's service through Christ.

 

[Binyawmene]

Yes. His one action (let there be) The washing and renewing with the water of the word.

Except that "renewing" is a process in sanctification and not one swoop action.

 

[Carbon]

I believe we would have to be joined to Christ first.

The fruit of faith needs a root, a dead root won't work.

A thought on this,

Sinners are not justified because they were regenerated, but because Christ had paid the penalty of their sins and has applied all His benefits to them.

 

[Mr GLee]

Except that "renewing" is a process in sanctification and not one swoop action.

If he has begun the good teaching work in he will work yoked with us to the end One long scoop of action.

Philippians 1:5=6 For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

 

[Binyawmene]

If he has begun the good teaching work in he will work yoked with us to the end One long scoop of action.

Philippians 1:5=6 For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Do you believe this one action is progressive or instantaneous?

2 Corinthians 4:16 Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day.

 

[Mr GLee]

Do you believe this one action is progressive or instantaneous?

2 Corinthians 4:16 Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day.

Thanks I would offer. .

As new creatures we receive the end of salvation from the beginning . Nothing can separate us from His labor of love or called a work of his faith

(Purple ) my addition

1 Peter 1:7-10 That the trial of your faith, (faith of Christ that works in us ) being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: Receiving the end of your faith,(yoked with Christ.) even the salvation of your souls.Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: