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Understanding you do not go to Heaven or to Hell, when you die.

As Christ showed at His resurrection, it was with a living body that carried the scars of His crucifixion and then was taken up as we shall be at the end...
Yes the temporal dying things are used to show the invisible power of Christ's faith or labor of his Love. Christ the Father pouring out His Spirt on dying flesh and blood with the propmised of a new body that will never die or grow old .

God is not a man .
 
Yes the temporal dying things are used to show the invisible power of Christ's faith or labor of his Love. Christ the Father pouring out His Spirt on dying flesh and blood with the propmised of a new body that will never die or grow old .

God is not a man .
Christ was fully man and yet fully God, this is a core Christian belief... https://www.gotquestions.org/fully-God-fully-man.html
 
Hobie~It's me, so do not run, let's talk about your OP and the others that followed. I think we have discussed this on Grace Centered, with you and Amo. You generally do not stay around, once the debate gets heated up, maybe you will this time.
Its clear in the Bible, you do not go to Heaven or to Hell, when you die, you lay in the grave and await the resurrection. Scripture says it plainly, you dont go to Hell or Heaven, you go back to dust in the grave, nothing more.
I'm only going to discuss the righteous, since they alone have eternal life giving freely to them by God's grace, and imparted to them by his almighty power. The SDA are dead wrong on this most glorious, and blessed truth. Why are you following them and defending them instead of the word of God? You are married to their religion and not to Christ as you should be, professing yourself to be a Christian. Hear teh word of God:

John 11:26​


“And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”

Hobie, do you disagree with Jesus' statement here concerning whosoever liveth and believeth in Jesus Christ shall never die...never Hobie!

Have you never read and consider this:
Jesus after he rebuke them for ignorance, he went even a step farther and prove that God is not the God of the dead, but of the living, proving that His people, though their bodies of sin and death will die, they will continue living, since God is the God of the living, not of the dead. Eternal life means exactly what it is...eternal. and their new man continue to live on after the death of their old man... it must, because the new man cannot sin or die, it has eternal life secured by Christ for them.

One more point for now.

By the very fact Moses and Elijah appeared with the Lord on mount proves that they were living~already to some degree enjoying eternal life, which we cannot particularly speak of since we have never experienced it as of yet, but our God is the God of the Living, not of the dead! A very powerful point exposing the error of SDA.
 
Christ was fully man and yet fully God, this is a core Christian belief... https://www.gotquestions.org/fully-God-fully-man.html

Its easy to see one Creator : "let there be and "it was God alone good "(The law of faith . . Christ's miraculous labor of love ) the eternal invisible things of Immanuel.

Yoked with him our daily burdens can be lighter with a future hope beyond the grave (not Limbo Purgatory

The trinity needed to install a Queen mother was developed to destroy the duality of the invisible Father working with the Son giving Jesus new born again spirit life .

Father and Son powered by the Holy Spirit (one) . .

Let there be and flesh and blood it was God alone good.
 

John 8:51​


“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”

Hobie, my question to you is this.....Is it true that Christ, who kept perfectly God's saying, sleep in the grave, without any life whatsoever? Or, is it true like he told the thief on the cross, today thou shalt be with me in paradise?

Luke 23:43​


“And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.”

Fulfilling Jesus' saying~“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”

Only Jesus' body taste of death, not his spirit. He would have remain in the grave, if he was not sinless~but he was, and so is every child of God chosen in Christ, they possess the same life that Christ secured for them.

More to come....RB
 
Jesus after he rebuke them for ignorance, he went even a step farther and prove that God is not the God of the dead, but of the living, proving that His people, though their bodies of sin and death will die, they will continue living, since God is the God of the living, not of the dead. Eternal life means exactly what it is...eternal. and their new man continue to live on after the death of their old man... it must, because the new man cannot sin or die, it has eternal life secured by Christ for them.

One more point for now.

By the very fact Moses and Elijah appeared with the Lord on mount proves that they were living~already to some degree enjoying eternal life, which we cannot particularly speak of since we have never experienced it as of yet, but our God is the God of the Living, not of the dead! A very powerful point exposing the error of SDA.
Amen. .Thanks

I would offer.

It was vison theophany their earthly bodies of death made from dust long ago returned to the field of clay.

Moses and Elijah (Law and prophets, a priesthood ) old testament saints with new testament used together as one to reveal all things written in the law and the prophets (sola scriptura) Moses with the prophets, Moses with Elijah. law with prophets Three ways

The voice of the Father. . the power to hear the word of God . declaring. . hear Jesus the Son of man the apostle as a sent messenger ...(UPS Fed X, Pony express. ) declaring the good and perfect will of his father

Mathew 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; ( the loving commandment of the living word). . . hear ye him.

And not hear you him Jesus the Son of man Jesus the prophet a messenger, apostle.

Ultimately it would seem to combat necromancy. Seeking the dead for those still living. The use of what some call patron saints workers with familiar spirit gods his and hers, passed on from the unbelieving Jew (Pharisees with Sadducees)

In that way giving meaning to the parable in Luke 16 . "No man can serve two good teaching masters as one invisible Holy Father"

Two kinds of wisdoms . earthly inspired of the father of lies called Mammon riches of this dying world and the wisdom that fall like rain from above and gives new born again life.. . . .sola scriptura. living abiding words

In that parable in the middle of many beginning in previous chapters one right after another. Hiding the gospel understanding with all the parables leading towards the subject matter . "no man can serve two good teaching masters as coming from one Lord" Hiding the gospel understanding from those who do seek the dead for the living (patron saints)

Luke16: 13-14 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.

Three times in that parable Christ used the metaphor "Law and prophets" or the other two times in that parable "Moses and the prophets", again just as used as Moses with Elias the prophet declaring sola scriptura the sword of the Spirit.

In the end it would seem to say ; if you will not believe sola scriptura which reveals the invisible things of the Father surely you will not believe even if someone comes back to life. . therefore serving another teaching authority . the living seeking the dead relatives .

Luke16: 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Isaiah I would think expands . The word seek Hebrew "Darash" which means to search or inquire carefully for something. It is used in two ways to seek evil and seek the blessing of God .

Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, (one working together ) it is because there is no light in them.

In that way "two" seems to be used to represent one God has spoken. You could say the (1) "let there be and(2) it was Christ alone good.

Having its priesthood foundation of believers in Genesis in the garden of Eden with Adam and Eve.
 
Its clear in the Bible, you do not go to Heaven or to Hell, when you die, you lay in the grave and await the resurrection. Scripture says it plainly, you dont go to Hell or Heaven, you go back to dust in the grave, nothing more.

"19 By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.” Genesis 3:19.

"21 Why then do you not pardon my transgression and take away my iniquity? For now I will lie down in the dust; And You will seek me, but I will not be." Job 7:21.

"10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?..12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep." Job 14:10&12.

"17 The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence." Psalm 115:17.

"4 When his breath departs, he returns to the earth; on that very day his plans perish." Psalm 146:4.

"19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again." Ecclesiastes 3:19-20.

This tells us that what happens to man and what happens to the beasts is the same, as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts. They all go to one place, which is the same. All are from the dust, and to dust all return. Solomon decleares in Ecclesiastes:

"5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun." Ecclesiastes 9:5-6.

Over and over again the Bible says that the dead know nothing. These are only a few examples. The dead don’t think. They don’t praise the Lord. They have no consciousness. They return to the earth, as dust. The dead are in a completely unconscious state without thought or feeling, just as they would be if they were asleep.

Once people die, it’s like if they were to fall into a deep coma or sleep. They aren’t aware of anything at all, or passage of time in any form or communicating with those they left behind. If they return to dust as scripture says, its clear that the dead aren’t taken straight to Heaven, or to Hell for that matter. If they were with God as soon as they died, there would be no need for a Savior or Christs death at the cross. And if they went straight to Hell, there would be no need for the Second Death at the Lake of Fire as the scripture clearly shows us.

"15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:15.

The wicked are not found in the book of life and only at the lake of fire at the end do they find their punishment.

"8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." Revelation 21:8.

Referring to death as a sleep is what we find throughout the Bible and when someone falls asleep, eventually they wake up again. So, what does it say in scripture as if the Bible describes death like a sleep, like something temporary, we can deduce that there must be some way to come back from death, to ‘“wake up,” as it were. But how does one “wake up” from death?

"14 And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just." Luke 14:14.

The idea of resurrection, of someone “waking up” from the dead, is throughout the Bible. Elijah and Elisha, through the power of God, raised people from the dead. Jesus did the same during his time on earth, bringing back a widow’s son, a young girl, and his dear friend Lazarus, proving that God’s power is greater than death. He can get us out of this first death, from this deep coma or sleep in the grave, to life everlasting.

"24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day." John 11:24.

Its called the resurrection of the just which scripture tells us will happen at the Second Coming for saints and Christ has the power and has promised to call us from the grave like Lazarus and take us to heaven to be with Him in His Heavenly Kingdom.

"15 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:" John 11:25.

We will be raised in the resurrection of the saints at the first resurrection, and the wicked will have to await the resurrection of damnation. No one goes to Heaven or Hell until these events at the very end at the Second Coming.
You are correct, all go to the grave at death and await the resurrection.
One will not be judged on past sins during the resurrection. They have paid in full the wages of sin=death= Gods judgement for sinners. Romans 6:7-One is acquitted of all sin at death.
Daniel12:2-3-sopeaking about the resurrection says-some will be made righteous--The righteous are already righteous, thus its the resurrected unrighteous given an opportunity to learn and apply Gods will during Jesus 1000 year reign, no satan influences, all things will be made back to perfection during that period. BUT--the reason satan gets loosed for a little while is to test their( resurrected ones) faith. It would make no sense for God to reloose satan just on the already righteous ones. Ifthe unrighteous were judged back to death already.
The first resurrection= The anointed bride of Christ=the little flock=144,000 bought from the earth( Rev 14:3) to rule as kings and priests along side of Jesus on thrones( Rev 1:6,,Trb 20:6)--it began here at Rev 6:2--the remaining ones on earth during the tribulation get changed in the twinkling of an eye to heaven. The separating of the sheep and goats occurs, then Armageddon-- then the resurrection of the rest occurs during the 1000 year reign at Rev 20. After satan is destroyed-Gods kingdom rule in 100% rule of all creation= the new earth, new heavens. All things back to perfection.
 
You are correct, all go to the grave at death and await the resurrection.
One will not be judged on past sins during the resurrection. They have paid in full the wages of sin=death= Gods judgement for sinners. Romans 6:7-One is acquitted of all sin at death.
Daniel12:2-3-sopeaking about the resurrection says-some will be made righteous--The righteous are already righteous, thus its the resurrected unrighteous given an opportunity to learn and apply Gods will during Jesus 1000 year reign, no satan influences, all things will be made back to perfection during that period. BUT--the reason satan gets loosed for a little while is to test their( resurrected ones) faith. It would make no sense for God to reloose satan just on the already righteous ones. Ifthe unrighteous were judged back to death already.
The first resurrection= The anointed bride of Christ=the little flock=144,000 bought from the earth( Rev 14:3) to rule as kings and priests along side of Jesus on thrones( Rev 1:6,,Trb 20:6)--it began here at Rev 6:2--the remaining ones on earth during the tribulation get changed in the twinkling of an eye to heaven. The separating of the sheep and goats occurs, then Armageddon-- then the resurrection of the rest occurs during the 1000 year reign at Rev 20. After satan is destroyed-Gods kingdom rule in 100% rule of all creation= the new earth, new heavens. All things back to perfection.
One appointment to die .Not two .

All things a new creation.
 
Its clear in the Bible, you do not go to Heaven or to Hell, when you die, you lay in the grave and await the resurrection. Scripture says it plainly, you dont go to Hell or Heaven, you go back to dust in the grave, nothing more.
You should consider that when referring to the body that the person is inhabiting, as far as the land of the living, they are no more when they are in the grave, however, that is not the same as the spirit of the man.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Granted, God judges that spirit as to where it shall go after death. Jesus talked about this in regards to the rich man, and the beggar named Lazarus in Abraham's bosom therefore testifying to an awareness in the afterlife.

In 1 Samuel 28th Chapter King Saul asked a medium to call up the spirit of the prophet Samuel and this did occur as the scriptures did testify that it was indeed the prophet Samuel as he uttered a prophetic judgment on King Saul for sinning against God that he and his two sons will die in the coming battle with the Philistines and it did come true.
Even though Abraham's bosom aka Paradise was located beneath the earth before Christ, since His resurrection and His ascension, Paradise is now located in Heaven as testified by the apostle Paul indirectly regarding the apostle John's visit to that third Heaven for the Book of Revelation.
2 Corinthians 12:1
It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Paul also said this in regards to Christians dying now.
2 Corinthians 5:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

The apostle John for the Book of Revelation, had testified that the spirits of the saints that did not get resurrected at the pre great tribulation rapture event, have to wait a while longer till the number of the saints that will join them after the great tribulation for when they shall be resurrected afterwards.
Revelation 6:
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?


11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

So we see here that souls have an awareness after death and able to voice this question to the Lord as well.
"15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:15.

The wicked are not found in the book of life and only at the lake of fire at the end do they find their punishment.

"8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." Revelation 21:8.
Notice how hell and death were to be thrown in the lake of fire?

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

So hell exists and people in hell are aware of their existence in that hell as Jesus had testified as one day they will be resurrected to be judged, but as those not written in the Book of Life shall be cast into the lake of fire, so will that temporary holding place, hell, shall also be cast into the lake of fire.
Referring to death as a sleep is what we find throughout the Bible
Either you were taught this error or you were cherry picking scripture while ignoring other scripture that refutes applying His words in that way. Hopefully, the Lord shall lead you to receive this edification if He knows you wish to abide in His words and thus in Him in truth.

Even I will need pruning to bear more fruit in the Lord, but scorners will reject reproof and there is nothing I can do about that but pray for Him to lead them to repentance before the Bridegroom comes or else be left behind at the pre great tribulation rapture event..

John 15:1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
 
So hell exists and people in hell are aware of their existence in that hell as Jesus had testified as one day they will be resurrected to be judged, but as those not written in the Book of Life shall be cast into the lake of fire, so will that temporary holding place, hell, shall also be cast into the lake of fire.
Hell is our daily sufferings of the wage of sin in this life. Suffering unto death, by his living sufferings as a sacrifice we are healed .

The appointment die once no retrial.. . no double jeapordy

The extended suffering wondering no end in sight needed for the Limbo /Purgatory false doctrine .

Death the letter of the law (thou shall not or you are dead and the daily sufferings of hell Yoked with Christ our burdens are made lighter with a future hope beyond what the eyes witness

The letter of the law will not rise up and condemn another whole creation . The old things as they are writen will not be remembered or ever come to mind .

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.(death)
 
Hell is our daily sufferings of the wage of sin in this life. Suffering unto death, by his living sufferings as a sacrifice we are healed .
Jesus would say otherwise in Luke 16:19-31.
The appointment die once no retrial.. . no double jeapordy
Regardless, at the Great White Throne Judgment, all the dead will be raised and it is their then resurrected body is how they will burn forever in the lake of fire for not having their names in the Book of Life.
The extended suffering wondering no end in sight needed for the Limbo /Purgatory false doctrine .
If I recall that errant Catholic doctrine correctly, Purgatory is paying for sins with this temporary suffering before coming out of it.

The Book of Revelation prophesied those in that hell, will be resurrected for that Great White Throne Judgment before cast into that lake of fire.

And it is important to discern with Jesus why that place called hell, along with death, is cast into the lake of fire as well which to me, I believe it is because sin will no longer separate us from God and all that is good ever again thus no reason for hell and death to still be around for.
 
Hi @Hobie …. If you believe dead souls are still in their graves, how do you explain this passage from Revelation 6:9-11?

9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

 
The lake of fire is called the second death. Rev 20:6--Rev 20:14

The appointment once. .

I agree the letter of the law "a dying death" with its sufferings called hell. Both tossed in the the judgment fire The letter of the law death will not rise up in the new creation and put to death the bride of Christ things of old will not be remebered
 
Jesus would say otherwise in Luke 16:19-31.

Hi I would offer that the signified understanding of the parables must be sought out

A series of parables beginning in the previous chapter .Comparing mammon as wisdom of this world. Using sheep as mammon, 10 pieces silver, inherited riches from his father

And the wisdom of God as it is writen in the law and prophets (sola scriptura)

Coming to the final parable in that series I would call it "the parable of two teaching masters"

Luke 16:13-16 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God (wisdom) and mammon.(wisdom of the god of this world) And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him. And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

The phrase "law and the prophets" or "Moses and prophets" or again "Moses and Elijah" are used to represent the word of God as the wisdom of God .

It is used that way in other parables throughout the bible "sola scriptura" the final authority in matters of faith the unseen power of God

Three times uses the law and the prophets as the wisdom of God

Luke 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

We understand the eternal invisible things of God after the Law and the prophets The witness of two
The Pharisees with Sadaucesss were seeking the wisdom of this world not communing with the father through all things writen in Moses and the prophets bur rather seek after the dead relatives call necromancy meaning to seek after Used in two ways. One necromancy seeking the dead for the living. Two the law and the prophets .Seeking the living God for those dead in ther tresspapases and sins Both working as one the law and its witness prophecy

Isaiah 8:19-20 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?T o the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, (sola scriptura) it is because there is no light in them.
 
Hi I would offer that the signified understanding of the parables must be sought out

A series of parables beginning in the previous chapter .Comparing mammon as wisdom of this world. Using sheep as mammon, 10 pieces silver, inherited riches from his father

And the wisdom of God as it is writen in the law and prophets (sola scriptura)

Coming to the final parable in that series I would call it "the parable of two teaching masters"

Luke 16:13-16 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God (wisdom) and mammon.(wisdom of the god of this world) And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him. And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

The phrase "law and the prophets" or "Moses and prophets" or again "Moses and Elijah" are used to represent the word of God as the wisdom of God .

It is used that way in other parables throughout the bible "sola scriptura" the final authority in matters of faith the unseen power of God

Three times uses the law and the prophets as the wisdom of God

Luke 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

We understand the eternal invisible things of God after the Law and the prophets The witness of two
The Pharisees with Sadaucesss were seeking the wisdom of this world not communing with the father through all things writen in Moses and the prophets bur rather seek after the dead relatives call necromancy meaning to seek after Used in two ways. One necromancy seeking the dead for the living. Two the law and the prophets .Seeking the living God for those dead in ther tresspapases and sins Both working as one the law and its witness prophecy

Isaiah 8:19-20 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?T o the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, (sola scriptura) it is because there is no light in them.
For @Hobie as well.

Although it is true that Jesus can use parables for making a certain testimony about the law and the prophets, it does not mean He would use a lie or something that is not true in illustrating that testimony.

There is an awareness after death.

The souls under the altar in Heaven in the Book of Revelation also testify to that truth.

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Paul testifies to us being present with the Lord after we die as being absent from the body.

2 Corinthians 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Philippians 1:22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.

23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.
 
The appointment once. .

I agree the letter of the law "a dying death" with its sufferings called hell. Both tossed in the the judgment fire The letter of the law death will not rise up in the new creation and put to death the bride of Christ things of old will not be remebered
Hades=hell=the grave.
The bride of Christ= the little flock( Luke 12:32), not the great crowd(Rev 7:9)
 
Hades=hell=the grave.
The bride of Christ= the little flock( Luke 12:32), not the great crowd(Rev 7:9)


Hi Thanks

Hell = "to cover or hide".

A sufferings unto death . Not dead never to rise. A living sacrifice of the sufferings of Christ the husband. . . pouring out His Holy Spirit life on dying flesh in jeapordy of his own faithful Holy Spirit life

Hell living sufferings death by the letter of the law .Thou shall not or you a deader than a door nail.

God does not commune with the dead . That's a doctrine of patron saints the living seeking the dead. Passed on from the Pharisees with Sadducees . . . a law of the fathers oral traditons of dying mankind .

Jonah 2:1-3 King James Version Then Jonah prayed unto the Lord his God out of the fish's belly, And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me.. . . . . (the pass over)

Jonah2;4 Then I said, I am cast out of thy sight; (Hell = "to cover or hide".) yet I will look again toward thy holy temple.

Matthew 26:37-39King James Version And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy. Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me. And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

The father heard the prayers of His Son . He does not hears the prayers of those who seek after the dead .

Isaiah 1:15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

Jeremiah 11:14Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up a cry or prayer for them: for I will not hear them in the time that they cry unto me for their trouble.
 
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