The "Times of the Gentiles"

[3 Resurrections]

Where is this in the text?

It's that whole 3-day-3-night sign of Jonah prediction for Christ to remain in the heart of the earth. A good topic for another post, unless there is one about that already lying around here somewhere.

 

[Eleanor]

It's that whole 3-day-3-night sign of Jonah prediction for Christ to remain in the heart of the earth. A good topic for another post, unless there is one about that already lying around here somewhere.

Not in my Bible.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Not in my Bible.

Your Bible doesn't have Matthew 12:40? "For as Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights, so shall the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights."

 

[EarlyActs]

Not that Pentecost day in Acts; it was the Pentecost day in AD 70, in case this was what you intended to ask. This AD 70 Pentecost day is the last day of the countdown to the 1,335th day in Daniel 12:11-13, in which Daniel himself would participate in a bodily resurrection at the end of those 1,335 days.


Do you remember that passage in John 12:28-29 about God speaking to Christ from heaven, saying "I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again"? Some heard thunder; some thought an angel spoke to him. Different perceptions by different people at the same location.

When God acts supernaturally, human perceptions of those sounds or actions can be as varied as this example above. We know that when the resurrected Christ left the sepulcher that Saturday evening, the guards standing a few feet away didn't notice a thing. They had no reaction at all until the next morning when the angel made an appearance and rolled back the stone. Then the guards were shaken with fright and "became as dead men" (Matthew 28:4). This shows that when a resurrection takes place, it is not necessarily perceived by those standing right next to that person rising from the dead.

"Left that Sat. pm?" You have a bag full of these imaginations, yes?

 

[3 Resurrections]

"Left that Sat. pm?" You have a bag full of these imaginations, yes?

I'm surprised that you have never yet encountered those using scripture to prove a Saturday-at-evening resurrection for Christ to fulfill the 3-day-3 night sign of Jonah given to that generation. This is not my imaginative brain-child. I'm not that original. At any rate, there are many other examples which could be mentioned from scripture showing selective revelation of supernatural events to certain ones and not to others.

 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

The problem is that Jews have not gotten complete governmental control of Jerusalem until they have the authority to rebuild the Temple on the Temple Mount. And that they will never have, since the Temple Mount is the site of the al-Aqsa mosque and constitute one of the three holiest shrines in the Muslim world. The Jews may manage the city, but it will never really belong to them until they can rebuild the Temple, which is not possible.

The "Temple Mount" is problematic. While this site is the "traditional" site of the temple, both archaeology and the Bible place it elsewhere.

Archaeology tells us the retaining walls of the "mount" are Roman construction, and that the traditional site of the 2nd temple (and the current site of the Dome of the Rock mosque) was actually the site of the Fortress Antonia - the Roman headquarters overlooking Jerusalem.

Herod's temple seems to have been situated either at the southeastern corner of the mount (Solomon's Stables on the map below) or on the mountain across the valley to the south. The temple mount did not exist in antiquity.

The pre-Israelite Jebusite city has been unearthed on the mountain to the south, and it's clear that Solomon's temple was located there as well, based on the location of Hezekiah's tunnel, which has also been documented by archaeologists.

The Israelites could re-build the temple on the correct site tomorrow if they wanted. They would only need to bulldoze a few apartment buildings. But they value tradition over truth, and so that does not happen.

-Jarrod

 

[EarlyActs]

The "Temple Mount" is problematic. While this site is the "traditional" site of the temple, both archaeology and the Bible place it elsewhere.

Archaeology tells us the retaining walls of the "mount" are Roman construction, and that the traditional site of the 2nd temple (and the current site of the Dome of the Rock mosque) was actually the site of the Fortress Antonia - the Roman headquarters overlooking Jerusalem.

Herod's temple seems to have been situated either at the southeastern corner of the mount (Solomon's Stables on the map below) or on the mountain across the valley to the south. The temple mount did not exist in antiquity.

The pre-Israelite Jebusite city has been unearthed on the mountain to the south, and it's clear that Solomon's temple was located there as well, based on the location of Hezekiah's tunnel, which has also been documented by archaeologists.

View attachment 580

The Israelites could re-build the temple on the correct site tomorrow if they wanted. They would only need to bulldoze a few apartment buildings. But they value tradition over truth, and so that does not happen.

-Jarrod

What does this have to do with the temple that he raised in 3 days? The one in Eph 2?

 

[EarlyActs]

When Jesus is asked about the fall of Jerusalem and the time of his return by his disciples, Jesus talks about both. He says that there will be wars and catastrophes, persecutions, and betrayals, but that is not the end. Then He tells of Jerusalem's destruction, and then He speaks about the end times before his Second Coming.

Luke 21:24-28 King James Version (KJV)
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

I came across a question on this issue of the "Times of the Gentiles" and looked up to see what I could find, and found very little. No one seems to have a full grasp on it although basically it appears mostly fall into a prophetic timeline. Here is one timeline...

"The same Jerusalem which "was compassed with armies" in A.D. 66 (Luke 21: 20), which was
laid "even with the ground" along with her "children within" (Luke 19: 43-44), and whose
people (the Jews) were "led away captive into all nations" in A.D. 70 (Luke 21: 24a), is the same
Jerusalem that would be "trodden down of the Gentiles (Gr. - ethnē - "nations"), until the times
of the Gentiles (nations) be fulfilled" (Luke 21:24b). Historically, the capture and destruction of
the city by the Romans in A.D. 70 began a centuries long "trodding down" of it by the "ethnē" (nations). This non-Jewish governmental domination of Old Jerusalem would continue throughout this allotted time period until the Jewish people would once again gain governmental control of the city."
.....http://www.adventistlaymen.com/WWN%20ARTICLES%20IOWA/WWN%20IOWA_10(16)_11(16).pdf

The problem is that Jews have not gotten complete governmental control of Jerusalem until they have the authority to rebuild the Temple on the Temple Mount. And that they will never have, since the Temple Mount is the site of the al-Aqsa mosque and constitute one of the three holiest shrines in the Muslim world. The Jews may manage the city, but it will never really belong to them until they can rebuild the Temple, which is not possible. But we see a 'New Jerusalem' in scripture..
Revelation 3:12
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Revelation 21:2
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

The destruction of Jerusalem and its Temple occurred because of disobedience of the Jews, and to be restored would require repentance and obedience. Which the Jews, in their blind rejection of Christ, stubbornly refuse. So scripture shows that God will have to clean the slate of the literal Jerusalem and bring in and replace it with a new one coming from heaven..

In some notes on ‘times the Gentiles’ while studying Judaism, I found that some did have a doctrine that in the Messianic age due at the end of the 490 years, They would be reaching Gentiles. That is, they were supposed to try, if they were followers of Messiah.

This is embedded in the OT of course, see the last paragraph of Rom 16 or the quote of Amos 9 in Acts 15.

But about the meaning, Judaism thought it meant Gentile inclusion through observing the Law. This is why Eph 3:5,6 is emphatic that the Gentile unity in the emerging Israel is ‘through the Gospel.’

 

[EarlyActs]

The "Temple Mount" is problematic. While this site is the "traditional" site of the temple, both archaeology and the Bible place it elsewhere.

Archaeology tells us the retaining walls of the "mount" are Roman construction, and that the traditional site of the 2nd temple (and the current site of the Dome of the Rock mosque) was actually the site of the Fortress Antonia - the Roman headquarters overlooking Jerusalem.

Herod's temple seems to have been situated either at the southeastern corner of the mount (Solomon's Stables on the map below) or on the mountain across the valley to the south. The temple mount did not exist in antiquity.

The pre-Israelite Jebusite city has been unearthed on the mountain to the south, and it's clear that Solomon's temple was located there as well, based on the location of Hezekiah's tunnel, which has also been documented by archaeologists.

View attachment 580

The Israelites could re-build the temple on the correct site tomorrow if they wanted. They would only need to bulldoze a few apartment buildings. But they value tradition over truth, and so that does not happen.

-Jarrod

Good thing that it has nothing to do with this site or any location. See Eph 2B

 

[EarlyActs]

Their spirit is, surely. Paul made that clear. But not their physical body's remains which wait in the grave until the resurrection when those remains are changed into the incorruptible and immortal state.

There is no delay whatever mentioned in Matthew 24:29. And there is physical evidence of Christ's bodily return to the Mount of Olives back in AD 70.

I agree with this. That "cloud of witnesses" encompassing the believers in those first-century days numbered 144,000 plus of the resurrected individuals who had been made alive, but who had to "remain" on the earth until the next resurrection event in AD 70.

So every eye saw Him in 70 AD?

 

[3 Resurrections]

So every eye saw Him in 70 AD?

Yes, the particular eyes which John referred to did see Christ's bodily return to the Mount of Olives in AD 70.

In the context of Revelation 1:7 (which is a copy of the prediction in Zechariah 12:10), the phrase "every eye" specifically referred to the Israelite tribes of the earth present at Jerusalem who had pierced Christ. This phrase does not refer to every eye of every person living on the entire globe simultaneously seeing Christ's second coming return to the Mount of Olives, as is commonly presumed.

Zechariah even mentioned by name some of the Israelite tribal family members that would be doing that mourning in AD 70 as they saw Christ's return. Namely, the family of the house of David, Nathan, Levi, and Shimei. None of these families or Israelite tribes exist today.

These particular family names of the tribes of Israel are brought up with a specific purpose in mind by the prophet Zechariah.
The family of David would be mourning because there would no longer be the hope of an ethnic king of David's family arising from Israel, once God "shattered the power of the holy people", as Daniel predicted. Christ reigning on the throne of His father David eliminated the need for another king from David's line.
The family of Nathan was going to mourn because there would no longer be a prophet arising in Israel, which prophets Zechariah 13:2 said would "pass out of the land".
Levi's tribe was going to mourn because of the physical death of the Levitical priesthood members in the AD 66-70 period, leaving Christ's high priesthood after the superior order of Melchizedek without any more competition for that role.
And Shimei's family members would be mourning because their family's ancient task in the wilderness as a son of Gershon, Levi's son, was eliminated for all time. They had been given the honor of caring for and transporting the materials which made up the "walls" of the wilderness tabernacle (Numbers 4:24-28, Numbers 3:18). In AD 70, those walls of the temple were torn down to the last stone - never to be built again.

 

[Mr GLee]

I came across a question on this issue of the "Times of the Gentiles" and looked up to see what I could find, and found very little. No one seems to have a full grasp on it although basically it appears mostly fall into a prophetic timeline. Here is one timeline...

Times of the gentiles. The time of the first century reformation(.Hebrew 9 ) Spoken of in Joel the beginning of the last days the restored order

The veil was rent there was no Jewish King of kings sitting in the holy place .Satan fell and could no longer deceive all the nations to include the Jewish that God is a Jewish man

God restored the order of his bride, born again Israel which the Father renamed Christian .

Christians prophets sent out as apostle called Judges'.This is from from all the nations of the world, men women and children prophets. like Rehab the gentile an apostle sent with prophecy.

No longer a men only celebration.Like that of Catholicism.

Mary the first female apostle/prophet in the new restored order .

It was never about the dying flesh flesh of just one dying nation ..
.
Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: