THE LAW OF GOD PART 2: Leviticus 19:17-18

[Josheb]

Jesus did not say she was lying when she said the well was Jacobs.

No, Jesus did not but scripture does.

A town of Samaria, and a Samaritan woman was at the well.

Incomplete sentences are meaningless.

How you can say that that Samaria and Samaritans are mutually exclusive is beyond me.

Yes, I understand this has so far been beyond you but if you examine the scriptures you will reach the exact same conclusion consistent with what I have posted.



The Jews took great pains to preserve their bloodline and keep it pure. They were legalistic about it. The Samaritans weren't simply a people who live in a city or region known as Samaria. They were people who'd ignored the standards of God to worship only Him and marry only within the tribes of the Patriarchs. They inter-married with men and women of other cultures and other (pagan) religions and at one point in history (during the times of Ezra and Nehemiah) leaders among the Samaritans actively obstructed and betrayed the Jews, and the Jews never forgave them.

Nehemiah 4:1-8
Now it came about that when Sanballat heard that we were rebuilding the wall, he became furious and very angry and mocked the Jews. He spoke in the presence of his brothers and the wealthy men of Samaria and said, "What are these feeble Jews doing? Are they going to restore it for themselves? Can they offer sacrifices? Can they finish in a day? Can they revive the stones from the dusty rubble even the burned ones?" Now Tobiah the Ammonite was near him and he said, "Even what they are building—if a fox should jump on it, he would break their stone wall down!" Hear, O our God, how we are despised! Return their reproach on their own heads and give them up for plunder in a land of captivity. Do not forgive their iniquity and let not their sin be blotted out before You, for they have demoralized the builders. So we built the wall and the whole wall was joined together to half its height, for the people had a mind to work. Now when Sanballat, Tobiah, the Arabs, the Ammonites and the Ashdodites heard that the repair of the walls of Jerusalem went on, and that the breaches began to be closed, they were very angry. All of them conspired together to come and fight against Jerusalem and to cause a disturbance in it.

Those in Samaria joined forces with the Arabs, Ammonites, Ashdodites, and others in the surrounding land and worked against God and God's people. The Samaritans were reviled by the Jews.

And that is why Jesus chose a Samaritan as part of his parable on defining a "neighbor." It is the equivalent of speaking to an antebellum southern audience or an apartheid Afrikaner audience saying a negro or kaffir had saved the man when a minster and church elder failed to do so. The use of the Samaritan violently confronted their sensibilities because they held themselves to be far above, far more righteous than all otheers..... especially the Samaritans. The Samaritans did not have the same "father" and they did not have the same covenant. They had defied both God and His covenant by intermarrying and worshiping or tolerating the worship of pagan idols.

Exodus 34:11-17
"Be sure to observe what I am commanding you this day: behold, I am going to drive out the Amorite before you, and the Canaanite, the Hittite, the Perizzite, the Hivite and the Jebusite. Watch yourself that you make no covenant with the inhabitants of the land into which you are going, or it will become a snare in your midst. But rather, you are to tear down their altars and smash their sacred pillars and cut down their Asherim — for you shall not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God— otherwise you might make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land and they would play the harlot with their gods and sacrifice to their gods, and someone might invite you to eat of his sacrifice, and you might take some of his daughters for your sons, and his daughters might play the harlot with their gods and cause your sons also to play the harlot with their gods. You shall make for yourself no molten gods.

Deuteronomy 7:1-6
"When the LORD your God brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you, and when the LORD your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them. Furthermore, you shall not intermarry with them; you shall not give your daughters to their sons, nor shall you take their daughters for your sons. For they will turn your sons away from following Me to serve other gods; then the anger of the LORD will be kindled against you and He will quickly destroy you. But thus you shall do to them: you shall tear down their altars, and smash their sacred pillars, and hew down their Asherim, and burn their graven images with fire. For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.

Joshua 23:11-13
"So take diligent heed to yourselves to love the LORD your God. For if you ever go back and cling to the rest of these nations, these which remain among you, and intermarry with them, so that you associate with them and they with you, know with certainty that the LORD your God will not continue to drive these nations out from before you; but they will be a snare and a trap to you, and a whip on your sides and thorns in your eyes, until you perish from off this good land which the LORD your God has given you.

Samaria is mentioned more than 120 times in the OT and few if any of those mentions are good. The Samaritans had broken God's covenant and either worshiped other gods or tolerated and collaborated with those who did. It was from that group of people that Jesus chose the person who acted neighborly when a priest and a Levite did not. They were not considered among the house of Israel.

Matthew 10:5-6
These twelve Jesus sent out after instructing them: "Do not go in the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans; but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

The Samaritans were no considered part of the house of Israel. Furthermore, the Samaritans actively obstructed Jesus. Because they believed God should be worshiped on their mountain and not in Jerusalem they obstructed the apostles.

Luke 9:51-56
When the days were approaching for His ascension, He was determined to go to Jerusalem; and He sent messengers on ahead of Him, and they went and entered a village of the Samaritans to make arrangements for Him. But they did not receive Him, because He was traveling toward Jerusalem. When His disciples James and John saw this, they said, "Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them?" But He turned and rebuked them, [and said, "You do not know what kind of spirit you are of; for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them."] And they went on to another village.

This op's application of Leviticus 19:17-18 is incorrect. The reason it is incorrect is because its authored failed to survey the whole of scripture and used the Word selectively in an attempt to prove what I assume is some doctrinal position because the claims the Samaritans had the same father and same covenant is factually incorrect. Jesus' use of the Samaritan in his parable was a paradox, a juxtaposition of type. The paradox is often lost on readers in modern times, especially if they haven't read and kept track of the whole Bible and all it has to say about those called "Samaritans."

 

[jeremiah1five]

No, Jesus did not but scripture does.

If Scripture is lying then it cannot be trusted.
Everybody in Church and forums all around the world should just turn out the lights, pull the plug, and go home await destruction from God because if the Scripture is lying then there's no obedience to the truth and that's God's justification for destroying the world this time with fire with everyone in it!
Way to go!

 

[Manfred]

Incomplete sentences are meaningless.

Sorry, but I believe you are being unreasonable here.

I know you have understanding and you are avoiding what I am pointing out.

Scripture and not me states that the woman from Samaria is Samaritan.

This is what I pointed out. So saying it is meaningless is not honest in my opinion, and I will leave you to your own ideas and rejection of those statements and that Samaria and Samaritans are synonymous.

 

[Manfred]

Exodus 34:11-17
"Be sure to observe what I am commanding you this day: behold, I am going to drive out the Amorite before you, and the Canaanite, the Hittite, the Perizzite, the Hivite and the Jebusite. Watch yourself that you make no covenant with the inhabitants of the land into which you are going, or it will become a snare in your midst. But rather, you are to tear down their altars and smash their sacred pillars and cut down their Asherim — for you shall not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God— otherwise you might make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land and they would play the harlot with their gods and sacrifice to their gods, and someone might invite you to eat of his sacrifice, and you might take some of his daughters for your sons, and his daughters might play the harlot with their gods and cause your sons also to play the harlot with their gods. You shall make for yourself no molten gods.

Deuteronomy 7:1-6
"When the LORD your God brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you, and when the LORD your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them. Furthermore, you shall not intermarry with them; you shall not give your daughters to their sons, nor shall you take their daughters for your sons. For they will turn your sons away from following Me to serve other gods; then the anger of the LORD will be kindled against you and He will quickly destroy you. But thus you shall do to them: you shall tear down their altars, and smash their sacred pillars, and hew down their Asherim, and burn their graven images with fire. For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.

Joshua 23:11-13
"So take diligent heed to yourselves to love the LORD your God. For if you ever go back and cling to the rest of these nations, these which remain among you, and intermarry with them, so that you associate with them and they with you, know with certainty that the LORD your God will not continue to drive these nations out from before you; but they will be a snare and a trap to you, and a whip on your sides and thorns in your eyes, until you perish from off this good land which the LORD your God has given you.

And?

The point I am trying to get across is that even with all of these warnings, WHAT did those Kings of Israel do that was exceedingly evil in the sight of God.
You are blaming the children for the sin of their Fathers!

 

[Josheb]

@jeremiah1five,

I'd love to discuss this op with you further, but I do not tolerate nor collaborate with ad hominem and repeated other fallacies. That conduct has continued despite multiple requests to keep the posts about the posts and not the posters. [edit by mod: Don't personally insult others as ungodly] As a consequence, I will not be trading posts with you further in this thread. I do not care how others conduct themselves with you; if you want to trade posts and discuss things with me then you will refrain from that conduct.

[edit by mod: <snip> This isn't CARM]

Every line in that list violates the tou and the word of God. And, ironically, none of it is neighborly!



@Manfred, all the expressed concerns were answered and addressed, including the distinctions between merely being from Samaria and the larger significance of being a Samaritan from the Jewish point of view. If the concern here is sincere then simply read and re-read what I posted. Investigate it and verify it. I should not have to repeat already posted content.


See you in the next thread.

 

[Manfred]

@jeremiah1five,

I'd love to discuss this op with you further, but I do not tolerate nor collaborate with ad hominem and repeated other fallacies. That conduct has continued despite multiple requests to keep the posts about the posts and not the posters.[edit by mod: Don't personally insult others as ungodly] As a consequence, I will not be trading posts with you further in this thread. I do not care how others conduct themselves with you; if you want to trade posts and discuss things with me then you will refrain from that conduct.

[edit by mod: <snip> This isn't CARM]

Every line in that list violates the tou and the word of God. And, ironically, none of it is neighborly!



@Manfred, all the expressed concerns were answered and addressed, including the distinctions between merely being from Samaria and the larger significance of being a Samaritan from the Jewish point of view. If the concern here is sincere then simply read and re-read what I posted. Investigate it and verify it. I should not have to repeat already posted content.


See you in the next thread.

I have to say that on that list you posted, I remarked that I believe you are being unreasonable. If that is an ad hom then so be it.
I would point to your responses to me but will not delve any further.

I believe scripture to be clear regarding Samaria and Samaritans and that they are indeed synonymous despite your.... LoL in response to my position and the scriptures posted where a claim to "incomplete scriptures" were made.

Please als note we are not on CARM in this discussion.
I will however refrain from further discussion with you.
Have a great day

 

[Josheb]

I have to say that on that list you posted, I remarked that I believe you are being unreasonable. If that is an ad hom then so be it.

There's no "if." There is simply no reason to ever mention another poster unless the poster is the subject of discussion and in this thread I nor you are the topic of discourse. Every use of the word "you" can always be reworded so as to avoid the use of that word and in any instance of negative attribution it should be avoided.

Ephesians 4:29
Let no unwholesome word come out of your mouth, but if there is any good word for edification according to the need of the moment, say that, so that it will give grace to those who hear.
.

I would point to your responses to me but will not delve any further.

Tu quoque is also a fallacy.

I believe scripture to be clear regarding Samaria and Samaritans and that they are indeed synonymous despite your.... LoL in response to my position and the scriptures posted where a claim to "incomplete scriptures" were made.

The evidence proves otherwise because I posted a pile of scripture evidencing the problems God (the Father), Jesus, and God's people had with Samaritans repeatedly throughout scripture and not a single word of what I posted was acknowledged. The evidence shows a selective use of scripture, not the use of whole scripture.

Please also note we are not on CARM in this discussion.

I stand corrected. Thanks. I see someone complained and the mods also provided correction. However, the problem of ad hominem is not only limited to another forum. Neither is the inefficacy of making posts about posters. This is all the more so when comments about others are derisive.

I will however refrain from further discussion with you.
Have a great day

So be it.



Let me recommend an experiment during the interim between now and the next time we trade posts. For the next five days try posting without using the word "you." It's difficult. On the occasion when that word is written ask, "Am I making an edifying comment about this poster?" and if the answer is in the affirmative then either leave out the comment or reword the comment so that it is about the post, not the poster. If a word search of "you" is done on this very page the frequency (or infrequency) with which the word is used will be instantly visible. Accusations like "You are blaming the children for the sin of their Fathers!" have no place in topical civil discourse. You were much better at avoiding that problem than the other participant in this thread and I commend that.

 

[jeremiah1five]

@jeremiah1five,

I'd love to discuss this op with you further, but I do not tolerate nor collaborate with ad hominem and repeated other fallacies. That conduct has continued despite multiple requests to keep the posts about the posts and not the posters. [edit by mod: Don't personally insult others as ungodly] As a consequence, I will not be trading posts with you further in this thread. I do not care how others conduct themselves with you; if you want to trade posts and discuss things with me then you will refrain from that conduct.

 

[Manfred]

There's no "if."

Of course there is.

You, yes you are being unreasonable.
That is not an ad hominin. It is an observation made by me and I believe it to be a fact.

Anyone who denies a logical fact is being unreasonable. If the shoe fits then wear it.

Anyone who completely ignores the scriptural fact, that Samaritans are from Samaria is being unreasonable.

There has been ample time to acknowledge that:

Joh 4:7 A woman from Samaria came to draw water. Jesus said to her, “Give me a drink.”
Joh 4:8 (For his disciples had gone away into the city to buy food.)
Joh 4:9 The Samaritan woman said to him, “How is it that you, a Jew, ask for a drink from me, a woman of Samaria?” (For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.)

It is clear from scripture and not because of speculation that a woman from Samaria is a Samaritan woman.
When through due diligence a simple word-search regarding Samaria is done, one can see it's connection with Israel and the important part it played in the history of Israel.

I know that I said I would refrain from further discussion, yet being judged for using ad hominem against someone when it is not so deserves at least a defense.

The thought may be that the fight is against me, but it is my opinion that the fight is with scripture, and a refusal to acknowledge that people from Samaria are Samaritans.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Bumping this sucker.
Ready, Fire, Aim!