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The history of the church.


Give thanks as a way of remembering Christ paid the full wage of sin and not a unknow remnant. And mankind with the exception of a Queen mother named after our sister in the Lord Mary must suffer wonder wonder wonder in Limbo for the younger sinners and Purgatory for the mature sinners ?

Turning the bread and cup into an idol image so a person might commune with a legion of patron saints worker with familiar spirit gods male and female .

2 Kings 23:24 Moreover the workers with familiar spirits, (patron saints) and the wizards,( mystics)and the images, and the idols, and all the abominations that were spied in the land of Judah and in Jerusalem, did Josiah put away, that he might perform the words of the law which were written in the book (sola scriptura) that Hilkiah the priest found in the house of the Lord.

The sola scriptura King. The greatest King of all

2 Kings 23: 25 And like unto him was there no king before him, that turned to the Lord with all his heart, and with all his soul, and with all his might, according to all the law of Moses; neither after him arose there any like him.

Will you do the same today ? Put away the idea of patron saints , that you might perform the words of the law which were written in the book (sola scriptura)
 
You mean the bride is not dying?

The new born again Spirit of the seed given from the invisible head could never die .All die not receiving the new bodies (Hebrews 11:38 .Neither male or female' Jew nor gentile?

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
 
Jesus didn't appoint any officers to have authority in it over other members. He didn't prescribe any creeds, he [imposed] on it no code of rules. He commanded no forms or orders for worship and gave his disciples only the simplest religious [rites]. They were baptism and the Lord's supper.
Mr. Nichols is incorrect on three of those points.

1) Jesus didn't appoint any officers to have authority in it over other members.
In Matthew 10:1 Jesus summoned his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every kind of disease and every kind of sickness. At the end of Mattew's gospel Jesus declares he has been given all authority and commands the eleven in what we now call the "Great Commission." Since there are many saved people with diseases and every kind of sickness in the Church and teaching the nations Jesus' commands necessarily includes those brought into the Church (does anyone think the great commission was intended to teach only outsiders the commands of Jesus?) it is demonstrable Jesus appointed "officers" to have authority in the Church and over its members. in 2 Cor. 10:8 wrote about the authority Jesus gave the apostles to build up Paul's readers and in Ephesians 4 Paul stated Jesus had given the Church a list of leaders (apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers, but the list is probably not exhaustive), specifically for the tasks listed in the passage. The word "elder/presbyter" signifies someone as a leader. The same is true of the word "deacon." In Acts 1 we read of the eleven seeking to replace Judas and they appeal to the prophetic nature of Psalm 109:8's "let another take his office." The Greek word is "episkopé," which means supervisor, overseer, or one having oversight. In Acts 15 we read of Paul and Barnabas coming before the apostles and elders, three of which Paul later refers to as "pillars of the Church." I'll stop here for the sake of space but the point is Jesus did in fact appoint officers and appoint them to have authority in and over other members.​

2) Jesus did not prescribe any creeds [and] he imposed no code of rules.
Jesus was once asked which of God's commands were the greatest and his answer to that question, love God and love others. Both commands come from the Law of Moses and the former is a part of the Shema, a Jewish creed. Much of Jesus' teaching found in his gospel sermons come directly from the OT code of rules. It might be correct to say Jesus did not prescribe and new creeds of code of rules, but it is not correct to say he prescribed none. The Great Commission is a command to teach his commandments! Despite the fact Jesus stated all the law and prophets are built on the two greatest commands, Jesus stated he was giving the apostles a new command: "Love one another." Furthermore, if there is no new code of rules then we're all Jews 😯.​

3) Jesus gave his disciples only the simplest religious rites, and they were baptism and the Lord's supper.
As far as I can recall the only occasion when Jesus ever commanded baptism was in the Great Commission and there he commanded the baptizing of nations, not individuals. In fact, the baptism that Jesus is reported for providing is the baptizing with the Holy Spirit, not that of water. Paul at one point exclaimed Jesus had not sent him to baptize (only to preach the gospel). In Acts 19 water baptism is called the baptism of John, not the baptism of Jesus. The water baptism the apostles practiced was carried over from John, and John carried it over from the Law of Moses and the ritual washing practices applied to convers to Judaism. When Jesus had his last meal with the apostles he said, "...do this in remembrance of me." If we ask ourselves to what is the "this" in that sentence referring, the answer is the Passover meal. That makes Jesus saying, "...do the Passover meal in remembrance of me," so he was not prescribing any religious rite that hadn't already been prescribed prior to his incarnation. What he was doing was prescribing new meaning to an old ritual or rite. Jesus did this with other religious rites beside water baptism and the Passover meal. Marriage would be another old religious rite Jesus prescribed for the Church.



All of these things have changed over the centuries and changed to the point that they look much different than during the gospel era and the era of the epistolary (a lot of change occurred between those two time periods and all of those changes are part of Church history). It is kind of ironic he would make these claims since he was a presbyter with authority to teach, one approved of by others holding authority to do so. He's implied his very existence is contrary to the claims he is making about Jesus!
Jesus promised to continue to the end of the world to impart his life to the church. His great gift to his church, we may say, was himself. In him, the church was to find its principles, its aims, its power. He left it free to make for itself forms of organizations and of worship, and statements of belief, and methods of work. His purpose evidently was that the life of his church, that is, his life abiding in his followers, should express itself in any outward ways that might seem to them best for the great end in view.

The growth of the Christian church.
Nichols.
Maybe I am missing something but I'm not seeing how that has much, if anything, to do with the history of the Church. What am I missing? (or is Mr. Nichols simply adding additional exposition not directly related to Church history.
There are a variety of Christian historical books that much will be taken from. So instead of quoting the Historic authors on all pages, I will give some now. There are others.

The growth of the Christian church - Nichols.

History of the Christian Church - Schaff

The history of the great reformation - J. H. Merle D'Aubigne, D.D.


One thing to keep in mind is what Jesus said to the church.
. . . . and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Matt 28:20.

You can be sure he did not give the church over to any human; religious leader or pope.

{Edit}For those interested in where the Catholic Church comes on the scene, that starts on page #45.
Schaff is commendable. I also like Ryan Reeves YouTube series of series on Church history, W. Robert Godfrey's series, Don't know D'Aubigne. There are two award-winning secular histories of the Church by Diarmaid MacCulloch, "Christianity: The First Three Thousand Years," and "The Reformation," but they can be difficult to read because they are very dry reads (overly detailed and dispassionate) and not inherently sympathetic to the faith (MacCulloch is a gay liberal Anglican). Although it has some flaws ad I find its argument wanting, the house church apologetic "Pagan Christianity," is also filled with historical details about the NT era Church (like the fact there were no Church buildings, not backwards collars, lecterns or stages). Sociologist Rodney Stark's "The Rise of Christianity" is also very informative (but its a sociological treatise and, therefore, not an ordinary history). "Reading the Church Fathers: A History of the Early Church and the Development of Doctrine," is sorta good but it's written by an RC and therefore assumes that perspective. Alistair McGrath's "Historical Christianity: An Introduction to the History of Christian Thought," is good up to the 18th century but its weak on the more modern (and very, very substantive changes occurring then) era. Then there is Bart Ehrman's lectures. Mr. Ehrman doesn't know what to do with himself but his lectures on the "proto-gospels" recount some of the misguided influence on Christian thought and doctrine that in-house histories neglect.

I didn't have much interest in history until I took a course in the history of philosophy. Learning what people were thinking when events occurred helped it all make sense.​
 
Yes. I said so and explained how so.

How are Nichols' thought about me relevant to this discussion?

Is it your intent to turn this discussion personal?
I hoped you would know that wasn't my intention. Good grief. :rolleyes:
 
I hoped you would know that wasn't my intention. Good grief. :rolleyes:
Why would something unintentional be posted? Perhaps more importantly, why would you say you're serious and then say it is unintentional?
 
Why would something unintentional be posted? Perhaps more importantly, why would you say you're serious and then say it is unintentional?
Why do you stretch things beyond where they need to go? There is no reason for it. Calm down please. No one is attacking you. 🙂
 
Why do you stretch things beyond where they need to go? There is no reason for it. Calm down please. No one is attacking you. 🙂
How about taking responsibility for Post 204 (and not making me out to be the bad guy here)?
 
How about taking responsibility for Post 204 (and not making me out to be the bad guy here)?
You feel that post 204 makes you out to be a bad guy? Really? How so? And why does there have to be a bad guy?
 
nt
 
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How about taking responsibility for Post 204 (and not making me out to be the bad guy here)?
You feel that post 204 makes you out to be a bad guy? Really? How so? And why does there have to be a bad guy?

He's trying to bait, that's his MO.
I'll take that as a no. Then how about a return to the subject of the op (the history of the Church)?

Nichols makes some claims that aren't quite correct and what he thinks of me personally is immaterial. Jesus did appoint officers, as evidenced by Acts 15 and Ephesians 4. Jesus did prescribe a creed, an old creed, the Shema. Baptism was not a new ritual, nor was it given by Jesus. The Lord's Supper was not a practice he gave, either, because what he asked was simply that the Passover meal be done in remembrance of him. That the early church modified each of these can be attributed to God more so, than any institutional influence or control (such as the appointing of Matthias, since God decides the lot). These are important details in the history of the Church because as the Church became more organized and institutionalized, all of it changed, including a redefinition of the word "church."

If there's no interest in discussing those points that's, okay.
 
From another perspective. .

I would think to look to the foundation of doctrine "early church".

Where did the phrase early church as a oral tradition come from? Why was it coined ?

Perhaps someone like a Pope that desired to be first. Top Alpha dog in order to lord, it over the non-venerable ?

Words like the word "apostle" must be defined and shown the witness of Christ's labor of love as it is written using examples at work. . .

Change the meaning of one word it can change the authors intent (plagiarism)and make the living word of God without effect

The Lord knowing beforehand established a law to protect the integrity of his living word. Again change the meaning of one word destroy the integrity of the whole.

Deuteronomy 4:2King James Version Ye shall not add unto the word (singular) which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it (singular), that ye may keep the commandments (plural) of the Lord your God which I command you.

A simular loving warning at the end of the book of law the Bible. warning. . adding or subtracting from the whole, a violation against themselves .

In that way it is impossible to deceive the elect or born again Christian .

Two laws working as one perfect law . .protecting the integrity of our Holy Father. One law a word ,(singular) . . and two the words (plural) . The first with the Omega .(last) Or the just and justifier. Death and lif


Especallity now days when the king of lying signs to wonders after. . . rather than trusting prophecy shows his true credentials .The King of identity theft . Playing make believe .Peek a boo, now I am a cat.

Teaching "make believe" in school that what ever a childish imagination can come up with do. The class teaching the teachers

Just don't identify as Alien from outer space as a non Tax $$$ funder . Defund the police idea yes . The father of lies a murderer from the beginning. The return again to the Tower of Babble I had a vison > Spy on the neighbor don't love them . Install more security cameras etc.

e

I would think Abel the first prophet sent as a apostle (messenger, UPS, Fed X, Amazon). . and first recorded martyr .The father of lies a murderer from that beginning.
 
I'll take that as a no. Then how about a return to the subject of the op (the history of the Church)?

Nichols makes some claims that aren't quite correct and what he thinks of me personally is immaterial. Jesus did appoint officers, as evidenced by Acts 15 and Ephesians 4. Jesus did prescribe a creed, an old creed, the Shema. Baptism was not a new ritual, nor was it given by Jesus. The Lord's Supper was not a practice he gave, either, because what he asked was simply that the Passover meal be done in remembrance of him. That the early church modified each of these can be attributed to God more so, than any institutional influence or control (such as the appointing of Matthias, since God decides the lot). These are important details in the history of the Church because as the Church became more organized and institutionalized, all of it changed, including a redefinition of the word "church."

If there's no interest in discussing those points that's, okay.
I'm going to move on from talking about this with you. I'm tired of the nonsense.
 
I'll take that as a no. Then how about a return to the subject of the op (the history of the Church)?

Nichols makes some claims that aren't quite correct and what he thinks of me personally is immaterial. Jesus did appoint officers, as evidenced by Acts 15 and Ephesians 4. Jesus did prescribe a creed, an old creed, the Shema. Baptism was not a new ritual, nor was it given by Jesus. The Lord's Supper was not a practice he gave, either, because what he asked was simply that the Passover meal be done in remembrance of him. That the early church modified each of these can be attributed to God more so, than any institutional influence or control (such as the appointing of Matthias, since God decides the lot). These are important details in the history of the Church because as the Church became more organized and institutionalized, all of it changed, including a redefinition of the word "church."

If there's no interest in discussing those points that's, okay.

I would offer a urban alternative

It would seem that the first century time of reformation had come (Hebrews 9) The restoring of the bride the church . . not the beginning.

Believers must be careful how they hear who they say they do.

David declared in the Psalms. If the foundations of doctrines are destroyed what could the believers do??Most are founded in Genesis.

Early church, with the word church used to represent the wife of Christ. . . is a term I believe invented by the "false identity king". Satan the father of lies .Trying to deceive the whole world to believe that Eternal God is a Jewish man, dying mankind, as King of kings.

Abel was used to set up the "you must be born again" doctrine . . . . Abel, mankind finding favor as grace yoked with Christ .

Satan a murdering liar from that very beginning tried to destroy the second born seed in a false glory .Christ the born again spiritual seed cannot be destroyed .Its the power of rebirth . The seed Christ pouring out His Holy Spirit on us living words of . . "Let there be" Spirit life

The lord had already set up his replacement Enos (second born) as a member of the bride. It was then you could say is when born again men began to call. Having been empowered to be heard on high .

The believers first love that calls believers back to do the first works believe God . . not seen.

Genisi 4:25-26 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew. And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.

John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Abraham (father of all nations) another second born leading to Jesus the Son of man Christ's first born .

Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
 
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