The history of how Sunday worship came about.

[JesusFan]

With all due respect....churches that meet on Sunday have been blessed by and used by God for centuries.

If anything I would think God is a bit annoyed at your legalism.

He is sda, per Ellen White, must uphold sabbath or else be taking mark of the Beast

 

[JesusFan]

Jesus instructed His disciples to observe the Sabbath even after His death as we see in His declaration.
Matthew 24:20
But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Jesus and the apostles kept the seventh-day Sabbath and instructed others to do likewise.
So they are not 'select verses' my brother, but words of Christ and He is clear....

Matthew 19:17
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

And Jesus follows that with what points back to the basis of Gods Law, love, in this case love for your fellow man...

Matthew 19:21
Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Christ made the Sabbath when there were no Jews, so it has nothing 'Judaized' about it. We have to be careful my brother about setting aside what comes from the Bible, especially if from Christ Himself.

The ECF clearly showed that the changing from Jewish Sabbath to Sunday as Lords day happened in the life of the Apostles of Christ, and that by end of first century and start of second century, pretty much all local assemblies were observing that day as worship day, celebrating the resurrection of the Lord Jesus

 

[Hobie]

Yes, and Jesus did so in obedience to the Law he was fulfilling at that time - the time prior to Calvary and Pentecost, the time prior to the realization of the Law's testimony and witness, the time prior to what the Law foreshadowed was realized, the time prior to the law being abrogated.

Ephesians 2:13-16
13But now in Christ Jesus you who previously were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14For he himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15by abolishing in his flesh the hostility, which is the Law composed of commandments expressed in ordinances, so that in himself he might make the two one new person, in this way establishing peace; 16and that he might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the hostility.

The hostility which is the Law expressed in ordinances was abolished in Christ's flesh when he died and was resurrected as the perfect, blemish-free sacrifice after Matthew 24:20. Which part of that Pauline commentary isn't understood?

Yes, they did. AND Paul, who was also an apostle, instructed his readers there was liberty to do otherwise. You are not dealing with that fact. You can post all the selected verses citing the sabbath you like but you're avoiding the salient points that conflict with the Judiazation of New Testament scripture, the nature of the covenant of Christ, and the facts of history. Half of scripture never proves anything.

They are select verses. You are selecting them. You are selecting them in neglect (or ignorance) of their inherent contexts: They were Jews and we are not, most of those verses are statements made prior of the resurrection, all of those verses exist within the context of their fulfillment, the resurrection, and the new covenant, and the fact God gave Paul a new revelation for those in Christ (both Jew and Gentile) that provided liberty that did not exist in the Mosaic Code prior to Calvary. Scripture is not selective. You are using it selectively. You are not addressing the many verses I have selected for your consideration; the many verses I have selected to show your selective use of scripture. When whole scripture is examined (all the scriptures you select and all the scriptures I select) then Adventists demand everyone practice the seventh day sabbath proves untenable.

Seventh Day Adventists have liberty to honor one day more highly than the others. I do not say their practice of honoring the sabbath is heretical. It is the demand everyone else do so that is unscriptural. Adventists have liberty to continue abiding by the seventh day sabbath as long as they do so honoring God and do not judge others who do things differently. You, @Hobie, have my blessing to take your day of rest on Saturday. You do not have my blessing or God's to demand I do so.

I comepltely agree and nothing I have posted should be construed in any way to suggest otherwise. I have already addressed the pre-Law nature of the seventh day sabbath.

You have been ignoring all that content.

I completely agree and nothing I have posted should be construed in any way to suggest otherwise, but it is you, not me, who has been setting aside portions of God's word. Genesis 2:2-3 foreshadowed Christ's death and resurrection. God rested on the seventh day CANNOT be construed to ignore the fact God worked on that day by creating that day!!! Similarly, Genesis 2:2 CANNOT be read and understood to conflict with the FACT Jesus (who is God) worked on the Sabbath and the sabbath. God had His Son die on the Passover Sabbath, lay in the grave on the seventh day sabbath WHILE GOD SAW TO IT THAT HIS BODY DID NOT DECAY!!! (which is a lot of work) and then resurrect him on the first day of the week.

Not a single verse you have quoted or cited exists apart from those facts.

Your lack of whole-scripture exegesis is deplorable. Your allegiance to SDA teaching over the whole of God's word is idolatrous. The attempt to use SDA doctrine as an agent by which you presume to stand as judge over all other Christians is putrid self-aggrandizement for which many in the past have been struck dead by God.

And it is all so very unnecessary. Keep the sabbath, if you want to do so but do so with the knowledge and understanding the sabbath existed as a foreshadowing of Christ in whom we now find our rest 24/7. Keep the sabbath in honor of God. Keep the sabbath but do so without judging ANYONE in Christ who honors days differently than you do.

Romans 14:5-10 (excerpted to focus on the salient content)
One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord.......... and gives thanks to God. For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself; for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living. But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.

God, through the words of Paul's Romans epistle, explicitly stated one person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike as an acceptable practice!!!!! It wasn't the previously held normal operating procedure, but God's demands and expectations changed 1) with Calvary (because God had fulfilled His covenant promises and fulfilled all His foreshadowed revelation and all His Law), and 2) because as God brought outsiders in/to the body of His resurrected Son.

Those are God's words.

Stop setting them aside.


I happen to live a fairly privileged life when it comes to the seventh day sabbath. I rest on Saturdays AND I rest on Sundays. God has seen fit to bless my financially and skillfully so that I can do both AND to do good and help others in need as He leads on both days. He has, in a sense, been preparing me my entire life to do exactly that. I'm not sure engineers, or accountants, or carpenters or plumbers can do the same thing, but if a person is in a "helping profession" his limitations and liberties differ. Christians in the helping professions learn things most people never need to learn because we are made to serve others in a way that is physically, psychologically, soulfully, relationally, and spiritually demanding. On top of that hubris is always a trap waiting to be sprung on us by our own arrogance. We learn the necessities of relevant liberties and boundaries because we do NOT have a license to help everyone in need any time we want just because we can.

I have saved lives on the sabbath.

That fact is not an entitlement to do as I wish. Nor is it an entitlement to impose my life, the privileges, the blessings and demands given to me by God on others.





I say this because if we were to abide by the letter of the law then it is you who come up short in comparison to me , unless do ALL that the sabbath laws require as asserted by the entirety of scripture and not just the verses you like to select to justify your practice.

So.....

Give consideration to the contexts that exist for every verse you've quoted because abiding by the letter of the law at the expense of all else God has said about that Law is, in fact, legalism. Ignoring the post-Calvary conditions is, in fact, Judaization. Selective use of scripture is, in fact, sloppy exegesis. You have liberty to practice the seventh day sabbath. It's your liberty, not your requirement. The Law enslaves when it is not understood in Christ. You have liberty to practice the seventh day sabbath as long as you do so honoring God and do not judge those who do things differently. It's not your keeping the seventh day sabbath that is the problem. It's the demand everyone do like you do that is the problem.

My brother, the best way I can describe it, is when you see that special one that you want to spend your life with, and you marry her. Is it work to remember that anniversary and spend it with her, does it grieve you to take time to share the happiness it brings, are you upset you have to take time out of your busy schedule for it. Of course not, and why not? Because of the love you have for her. Its that simple....

 

[Josheb]

My brother, the best way I can describe it, is when you see that special one that you want to spend your life with, and you marry her. Is it work to remember that anniversary and spend it with her, does it grieve you to take time to share the happiness it brings, are you upset you have to take time out of your busy schedule for it. Of course not, and why not? Because of the love you have for her. Its that simple....

VERY bad analogy.

It is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure. The correct analogy would be...

....when you see that special one that you want to spend your life with, and you marry HIM, it is His work that reminds us of our anniversary..........

It's the bridegroom that remembers out "anniversary," and reminds us when it is, to keep it, and how to do so. That is exactly what God did in Romans 14. He reminded every one of His bride that He does not want to be honored on only one day but it's okay if you do so... as long as you truly do so honoring Him and not just some letter of some law He dictated centuries ago in neglect of the reasons He uttered that command to begin with.

So..... with the respect due you as a brother in Christ..... "the best way you can describe it" is woefully inadequate AND, therefore reason for you to go back to the whole of scripture and contemplate all that it states. If that is truly your "best way," then your best needs work.

Hebrews 5:12-6:2
For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the actual words of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food. For everyone who partakes only of milk is unacquainted with the word of righteousness, for he is an infant. But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to distinguish between good and evil. Therefore, leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and about the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment.

Titus 3:9-11 ESV
But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.

Galatians 2:16-21
We are Jews by nature and not sinners from the Gentiles; nevertheless, knowing that a person is not justified by works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the Law; since by works of the Law no flesh will be justified. But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Far from it! For if I rebuild what I have once destroyed, I prove myself to be a wrongdoer. For through the Law, I died to the Law, so that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.

Anyone can take one day off per week and spend it in devotion and worship. To live that way all seven days is much more demanding. A god who takes pleasure in a creature's one-day-a-week devotion is not as grand or great a god as the God who dwells within His creatures, working within them to devotion and worship all seven days. This is analogous to the misguided Calvinist who mistakes Calvinism for strict determinism. Any god can make an action figure and then make that action figure do only what that god makes the action figure say and do. You and I can do that! That's not a particularly big god. That god is not a God. S/he it is most definitely not the God of the Bible. Similarly, a God who requires only one day of dedicated devotion does not compare to a God who requires all days of devotion and works within His creatures to accomplish His desire. Legalism kills. Legalism is also indicative of small gods and small people.

However.....

In this particular case, in the case of the seventh day sabbath, god has not only explained Himself..... He has also permitted a diversity that is uncommon. You have liberty to keep the sabbath as long as you do so honoring God (the affirmative portion of His desires) and you don't go around judging those who handle their calendar differently. I know the creation of the day of rest preceded the Law. Our dispute is not that. Arguing the religion God wants is the ritual practice of a six days plus one schedule runs into conflict with a lot more scripture than the ones I have already provided. The religion God Religion that God accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world. The religion God desires is not about what someone eats or what day they honor above others. Romans 14 would not have needed to be said if the problem of what to eat and what day to do what on was not a very old problem within the body of Christ!!!

You have read me say this before but I'm going to repeat it for the lurkers. During the Restoration Movement of the 19th century a multitude of diverse individuals attempted to move Christians to reform and non-Christians to become authentic believers in Christ. They all believed the Church, the body of Christ, was corrupt (mainly due to Roman Catholicism). In an effort to address this corruption they picked up where the Reformers left off and exhorted people to return to New Testament era practices. The problem was each leader had a different view of what that NT-era Church looked like. William Miller and Ellen White, et al, believed a return to dietary practices and the seventh day sabbath were necessary parts of restoration. The Darbyites took a different approach. The Church of Christ and the Christadelphian leaders and the founders of JWism and the LDS all took different approaches.

It was a real mess.

It's also odd because William Miller didn't emphasize the seventh day sabbath in the beginning. It wasn't until after the Great Disappointment that the Adventists did so. Rachel Oakes and John Bates were the primary impetuses for the move to the seventh day and that was largely due to the perception the Millerites needed to reform because they'd badly mucked up the timing of Christ's return (and their departure from the planet). Ellen White had visions in which a return to the practice of a seventh day sabbath was considered a sign of the end times. Greater obedience indicated greater loyalty and that loyalty would be recognized at Christ's return.

So no more bacon for Christians if they want to be taken of the planet when Jesus returns .

Replacing Sunday with Saturday did not (and never will) solve the problem of a body that does not exercise daily. The JWs doubled the number of times corporate worship and rest are expected. They are pretty nice, cleaned up people, at least from the outside looking in. As far as the sabbath day goes, their problem is they worship the wrong Jesus and two days a week doesn't come much closer to a 24/7 resting devotion of active service.

And I haven't even touched on the discrepancies inherent to practicing a seventh day sabbath but not the festival sabbaths.

....the best way I can describe it.....

.....is woefully inadequate (and the attempted analogy is a bad analogy).

Its that simple....

No, it's a completely misguided analogy. I will not say the reading and understanding of whole scripture is "complex," because anyone can do it, but it's not simple, either. Reducing the Christian life to rules like honoring God one day of the week but not the others is simplistic. Understanding the Christological significance of Genesis 2;3 and all the other mentions of the sabbath cohesively is necessary and the Adventist founders did not get it correct.