The Good Ground

[John Bauer]

Exactly. It is the same with his sheep. They are never not his sheep, but they must have their ears opened to hear his voice and follow the Shepherd. The only way that will ever happen is if they are born again from above. And that is predestined to happen because they are the sheep the Father determined before creation that he would give to the Son, and the very ones Christ went to the cross for (John 10).

Then perhaps that is the answer: “Only the elect are the good ground, but not until regeneration.”

---

I think the “good soil” is the heart that God has renewed—what Ezekiel calls the heart of flesh—so that the word is truly heard, held, and bears fruit. And only the elect receive such a heart. So, the elect are not the good soil, the regenerate heart is.

 

[John Bauer]

If the "good soil" is election, and the seed regeneration, it works. But if the "good soil" is the elect, then they are already regenerated, unlike those who fall away.

The seed is not regeneration. When Jesus explains the parable, he said the seed is “the word of God” (Mark 4:14; Luke 8:11) or “the word about the kingdom” (Matt 13:19)—which, as the parable indicates, is spread indiscriminately (whereas regeneration is not indiscriminate).

 

[John Bauer]

Do you garden?
(I ask that as a serious question because the empirical knowledge gained from turning a “field” into a “garden” offers empirical insights into the soils and the parable that the original audience would likely have been familiar with.)

I do not. My wife does. I’m just the grunt, the brute physical labor.

I am curious, though, as to these insights that gardening should offer on this parable. The sower, after all, does nothing except spread the seed indiscriminately. There is no talk of cultivating or “turning a field into a garden.”

 

[makesends]

I do not. My wife does. I’m just the grunt, the brute physical labor.

I am curious, though, as to these insights that gardening should offer on this parable. The sower, after all, does nothing except spread the seed indiscriminately. There is no talk of cultivating or “turning a field into a garden.”

There's always a tendency on our part to try to make a parable say more than was meant, I think.

 

[Arial]

Then perhaps that is the answer: “Only the elect are the good ground, but not until regeneration.”

---

I think the “good soil” is the heart that God has renewed—what Ezekiel calls the heart of flesh—so that the word is truly heard, held, and bears fruit. And only the elect receive such a heart. So, the elect are not the good soil, the regenerate heart is.

That may be. It also may be that God is preparing that soil to receive the seed from the birth of the person forward. Or that at some point in their life, he begins to prepare it. That's the thing with parables. We can't really pick it apart and say, this represents this, and this represents this etc. We need to look for the teaching, the message, the truth being expressed, not necessarily the doctrine or theology.

 

[John Bauer]

That's the thing with parables. We can't really pick it apart and say, this represents this, and this represents this etc. We need to look for the teaching, the message, the truth being expressed, not necessarily the doctrine or theology.

Agreed. That is why I asserted my view in speculative terms (“I think it’s x”), not in exegetical terms (“the text says it’s x”). And I do think it fits the truth being expressed, wherein the parable preserves the tension between proclamation to all and understanding granted to some (“to you it has been given to know”).

It also may be that God is preparing that soil to receive the seed from the birth of the person forward. Or that at some point in their life, he begins to prepare it.

[Emphasis added.]

We may differ in our opinions, then. I think the good soil is the heart that God has renewed (cf. Matt 13:19), not the process of God doing so. Unless the seed falls on a heart renewed by God, it will not take root.

 

[Arial]

Agreed. That is why I asserted my view in speculative terms (“I think it’s x”), not in exegetical terms (“the text says it’s x”). And I do think it fits the truth being expressed, wherein the parable preserves the tension between proclamation to all and understanding granted to some (“to you it has been given to know”).



We may differ in our opinions, then. I think the good soil is the heart that God has renewed (cf. Matt 13:19), not the process of God doing so. Unless the seed falls on a heart renewed by God, it will not take root.

I agree that the good soil is the heart that God has renewed. But put in agricultural terms as Jesus did in the parable (something his hearers could relate to) the different types of soil are used. I agree too that the message being given encompasses the truth of the gospel (the word of God) is the key to entering the kingdom of heaven and it is not withheld from any (the hearing of it). And that only good soil produces fruit.

The parable isn't really about how the soil becomes good and it is not about election. Since we as Reformed know the doctrine of election we then go to that parable and have a different important theological discussion on how the soil gets good.

From my perspective, and because I believe that since God foreknew and predestined unto salvation those he elects before the foundation of our world, that there is a sense in which every day of our life and everything about it, good and bad, is a process of God leading us to that place of rebirth. Every step is leading towards him, and the process (where we are born, who our parents are, our experiences in life up to that regeneration), are preparation for the purposes he has for us.

 

[Arial]

Agreed. That is why I asserted my view in speculative terms (“I think it’s x”), not in exegetical terms (“the text says it’s x”). And I do think it fits the truth being expressed, wherein the parable preserves the tension between proclamation to all and understanding granted to some (“to you it has been given to know”).



We may differ in our opinions, then. I think the good soil is the heart that God has renewed (cf. Matt 13:19), not the process of God doing so. Unless the seed falls on a heart renewed by God, it will not take root.

That is also true, unless the seed falls on the good soil it will not take root. I can present my own situation as anecdotal evidence of that. I heard the "seed scattered" almost non-stop from my brother for seven long years. And then one day it took root and grew. Literally, from one day to the next.

So, I confess with humility, that my original statement that the good soil is always the good soil waiting for the seed, needs a lot of clarification. The person is always destined to become good soil, and there is a sense in which God is always preparing it, but it does not become good soil until regeneration.

Even though that is not the takeaway theological point of the parable.

 

[atpollard]

I do not. My wife does. I’m just the grunt, the brute physical labor.

I am curious, though, as to these insights that gardening should offer on this parable. The sower, after all, does nothing except spread the seed indiscriminately. There is no talk of cultivating or “turning a field into a garden.”

You are correct, but some things are self-evident.

Does the SOIL transform itself?
In all of your gardening, did you ever walk out one morning and discover a field of wild weeds had spit out all the weeds so you had "good soil" ready to plant a garden? Have you ever seen a gravel road suddenly disappear and leave "good soil" in its place? Have the rocks in your yard ever spontaneously gathered into a stone wall at the perimeter to transform itself into a field of "good soil"?

As the "grunt" you are aware that it requires an external force acting on the soil to change it. Someone or something EXTERNAL to the soil made the good soil into "good soil". (Have you ever encountered "good soil" that "just naturally happened" and required ZERO effort?)

The "sower" sows.
As you noted, the sower just sows the seed EVERYWHERE. Jesus was clear that the seed is the "word of God" and the soils are the different "hearts" that hear the word of God. From the rest of the Gospel. whose job is it to scatter the word of God EVERYWHERE? Who then is the "sower"? Is it the job of GOD to spread his message to the ends of the earth, or is it our job?

If it is our job to spread God's word (the seed), are we even capable of transforming the heart of another? Like the sower, we are not called to change soils, we are called to broadcast seed. Transforming soil is the work of another (God? The Holy Spirit?) and both "not our problem" and "above our pay grade".

... but transforming soil is not impossible for the owner of the land and transforming a heart is not above God's pay grade.

But our job, as sowers, is just to sow ...

1 Corinthians 3:5-9 [ESV]

What then is Apollos? What is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, as the Lord assigned to each. I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth. So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth. He who plants and he who waters are one, and each will receive his wages according to his labor. For we are God's fellow workers. You are God's field, God's building.​

 

[makesends]

Arial said:
It also may be that God is preparing that soil to receive the seed from the birth of the person forward. Or that at some point in their life, he begins to prepare it.

We may differ in our opinions, then. I think the good soil is the heart that God has renewed (cf. Matt 13:19), not the process of God doing so. Unless the seed falls on a heart renewed by God, it will not take root.

It would be hard for me to show that he did (or, for that matter, that he did not) prepare me before regeneration, but I have no doubt that God uses tools to "prepare the ground" for planting —tools besides regeneration. (And some of those tools are amazing; he even uses our sin.) But yes, without regeneration, the ground is not "good ground".

This is the thing that I can't seem to get across to those set on self-determinism. They want this generous general good-will; they want an attitude of blessing-to-all from God, which implies that God (who —praise him— is extremely brilliant) flies by the seat of his pants to accomplish the general end he had in mind from the beginning. This is God, the beginning and the end, who somehow submits himself to our will. Their God has no particulars in mind. The Bride of Christ is a perfect mess. This whole of history is just a grand experiment. Such is the abomination of self-determinism.

I need some more coffee to calm down.

 

[Carbon]

The elect are always the good ground.

The elect come from the same bucket of scup as all the non elect come from.

It is the seed they are waiting for.

Well honestly, they don’t know or ever care.

And who plants the seed? The Sower---God. And what is the seed? The word.

 

[Carbon]

being fallen sinners, none of us were ever 'good ground"

I agree

 

[Carbon]

I should think that would depend on what is meant by good ground.

If you mean to reference the good ground (vs the others) of the Matthew 13 parable, I think it is simply Election and Predestination.

The Parable reads, “some fell on good ground.”