The Church of Rome denies Jesus came in the flesh

[Hobie]

We see what the Bible says..

2 John 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

The antichrist has to deny Jesus came in the flesh. Let’s look up the greek word “flesh” in the greek Lexicon and see what it can mean:

Strong’s Hebrew/Greek Concordance:

sarx: Probably from the base of G4563; flesh (as stripped of the skin), that is, (strictly) the meat of an animal (as food), or (by extension) the body (as opposed to the soul (or spirit), or as the symbol of what is external, or as the means of kindred, or (by implication) human nature (with its frailties (physically or morally) and passions), or (specifically) a human being (as such): – carnal (-ly, + -ly minded), flesh ([-ly]).

Thayer’s Greek Lexicon:

Thayer Definition:
1) flesh (the soft substance of the living body, which covers the bones and is permeated with blood) of both man and beasts

2) the body 2a) the body of a man 2b) used of natural or physical origin, generation or relationship 2b1) born of natural generation 2c) the sensuous nature of man, “the animal nature” 2c1) without any suggestion of depravity 2c2) the animal nature with cravings which incite to sin 2c3) the physical nature of man as subject to suffering

3) a living creature (because possessed of a body of flesh) whether man or beast

4) the flesh, denotes mere human nature, the earthly nature of man apart from divine influence, and therefore prone to sin and opposed to God

Now… what is our human nature? What are all human beings guilty of according to the bible? They are all guilty of SIN (Romans 3:23). Our human nature if our “want” to, or being “prone” to sin. The bible teaches that although Jesus never sinned, he became sin for us (2 Cor. 5:21). It teaches that Jesus came through the line of David (Matthew 1:1) yet David said, “Behold, I was shapen in INIQUITY; and in SIN did my mother conceive me.” -Psalm 51:5. This means that the whole line of David was a lineage individuals with a nature to sin, including Jesus. This is how Jesus, being God, could be tempted to sin (compare James 1:13 with Hebrews 4:15) because he became man, and being made into a man he had the same human nature as man… the ability to sin.

So, how does the Roman Catholic Church teach that Jesus did not come in the flesh (human nature)? Well when they teach that the Virgin Mary was sinless at her conception of the baby Jesus, they in essence teach that Jesus has not come in the flesh, because Jesus came through her lineage, and as David had a nature to sin, she also had a nature to sin. Read the following quote from a Roman Catechism:

491. “Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary, ‘full of grace’ through God, [Lk 1:28 .] was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854: The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of JESUS Christ, Saviour of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin. -Pius IX, Ineffabilis Deus (1854): DS 2803.

To say that Jesus came into the world this way, born of a virgin who was not of sinful “flesh” as we are all in our human nature, is to say he did not come in the “flesh” of sinful nature because he came through HER lineage. Think about it.

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

… (4) "the flesh" denotes mere human nature, the earthly nature of man apart from divine influence, and therefore prone to sin and opposed to God

Jesus was fully human and fully God: T or F?

 

[Mr GLee]

We see what the Bible says..

2 John 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

The antichrist has to deny Jesus came in the flesh. Let’s look up the greek word “flesh” in the greek Lexicon and see what it can mean:

Anti-christ another teaching authority of than the living abiding word of God (sola scriptura) False apostles, false teachers, bringing false prophecy. Oral traditions of I heard it through the father's grapevine

Peter the serial denier in Mathew 16.is used as a warning to others not to rebuke the Holy Father and forbid the Son of man Jesus from doing the powerful will of the invisible father

Peter was forgiven of his blasphemy and the Son of Man Jesus. No forgiveness against the Holy Father not seen

They deny that the Holy Spirit of Christ worked in the Son of man, Jesus Lucifer denying both the power to hear from the father and do the good work yoked with Christ

 

[atpollard]

I enjoy criticizing things the RCC believes that I disagree with as much as anyone (and they make their Mariology some 'low hanging fruit'), but this criticism is nonsensical. The RCC affirms the hypostatic union of God and Man in Christ, they are not Docetists.

 

[Mr GLee]

I enjoy criticizing things the RCC believes that I disagree with as much as anyone (and they make their Mariology some 'low hanging fruit'), but this criticism is nonsensical. The RCC affirms the hypostatic union of God and Man in Christ, they are not Docetists.

Not sure about the enjoyment (could be false pride) We can be a light in a dark place. Our Holy father sends believers out two by two as the witness of God.

They must teach that a Queen mother entity received the fulness of Grace the whole price of salvation and the rest of the planet a unknown remnant of grace and they must continue to suffer, wonder, wonder, wonder, marvel with no end in sight forever and ever.

Teaching the queen Mother visits both places. Limbo and purgatory and she comforts those in agony to include the suffering Protestants

In that way there must be differences amongst the sects through oral traditions as long as they do not do despite to the fullness of grace .(salvation)

They are identified as judgable in need of the light of the gospel the full price called salvation

.Not Limbo or purgatory as those who walk by sight the temporal things seen

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

No grace no salvation.

 

[Hobie]

Jesus was fully human and fully God: T or F?

That is what makes it so hard to comprehend, how could He be both and yet have to overcome as we must do..

 

[makesends]

That is what makes it so hard to comprehend, how could He be both and yet have to overcome as we must do..

What verse(s) are you citing here? What does 'overcome' mean in this context—the same thing as it means in every context?

I ask this because there seem to be a lot of assumptions made in order for the question to even come up.

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

That is what makes it so hard to comprehend: How could he be both [fully human and fully God] and yet have to overcome as we must do?

Two things. First, while he may have had to overcome as we must do, he also overcame in ways that far exceed anything we could do—overcoming the world, sin, death, and spiritual adversaries. Second, he overcame as to his fully human nature, which was in every way like our fully human nature, but without sin (Heb 4:15). He had nothing to overcome as to his divine nature.

 

[Hobie]

Two things. First, while he may have had to overcome as we must do, he also overcame in ways that far exceed anything we could do—overcoming the world, sin, death, and spiritual adversaries. Second, he overcame as to his fully human nature, which was in every way like our fully human nature, but without sin (Heb 4:15). He had nothing to overcome as to his divine nature.

Yes, He had to stop Himself from using His power of dignity and like us rely solely on the Father. Thus He didn't fall for the Devils temptation to turn the stones to bread or fly off the cliff, etc.. He was our example how to overcome as fully human, and thus be cleansed of sin so we can perfect before God...

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

Yes, he had to stop himself from using his power of dignity and, like us, rely solely on the Father. Thus he didn't fall for the devil's temptation to turn the stones to bread or fly off the cliff, etc. He was our example how to overcome as fully human, and thus be cleansed of sin so we can perfect before God...

Well, I can agree that he was an example if we stipulate that he exemplified an impossible standard of righteousness (for those fallen in Adam). We cannot maintain for even one minute the level of obedience to the Father's will that he demonstrated. His perfect faithfulness is a glaring example of why he is our Savior and of our desperate need of him.