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The 1000 year Millennium from the Bible

He was speaking of the world they knew. Jesus was literally speaking about the whole world hearing the gospel before He returns.

One of the apostles made his way towards England. That doesn't sound like one town. (I forget who it was.)

The one town was Pella in Syria; this is a comment by Eusebius about the year when the siege of Jerusalem was stalled, and Christians escaped. To escape was still dangerous bc the zealots wanted to keep and impound them to help fight.

I don’t think you are following the Mt24A talk very well. All the things mentioned happened in Judea or in a way that aftected it . Until B or v29. Which is yet to come, has been delayed.

So Paul in Col 1 and I Tim 3 is confirming that Mt 24A was true (the same whole world was reached as listed in Acts 2),—except for the delay of the day of judgement on the nations, a delay explained in 2 P 3.

Thanks for the discussion! Many other folks lose their calm but have not.

Happy TG —assuming you are in the US.
 
The one town was Pella in Syria; this is a comment by Eusebius about the year when the siege of Jerusalem was stalled, and Christians escaped. To escape was still dangerous bc the zealots wanted to keep and impound them to help fight.

I don’t think you are following the Mt24A talk very well. All the things mentioned happened in Judea or in a way that aftected it . Until B or v29. Which is yet to come, has been delayed.

So Paul in Col 1 and I Tim 3 is confirming that Mt 24A was true (the same whole world was reached as listed in Acts 2),—except for the delay of the day of judgement on the nations, a delay explained in 2 P 3.

Thanks for the discussion! Many other folks lose their calm but have not.

Happy TG —assuming you are in the US.
Yes, in the US. I had to work all night anyway. I did get to talk to family. Hope you had a happy thanksgiving. I may get a little heated (especially if you encroach on certain subjects that I truly beleive to be non-negotiables), but this isn't one of those. I believe that there is a parallel future fulfillment of Matthew and Revelation. So Matthew was a local judgement on Israel where Jerusalem was destroyed, while Revelation deals with the salvation of Israel in the end by their King, their Messiah, Jesus. And as far as creation is concerned, it is finality. The end of the age that we live in. (Time, sin, etc.) The next age, I consider to be the eternal age in a New Heavens, New Earth, and New Jerusalem. Yes, it is pretty simplistic. I think it is. It is getting into details where things get deep and tangled.
 
Yes, in the US. I had to work all night anyway. I did get to talk to family. Hope you had a happy thanksgiving. I may get a little heated (especially if you encroach on certain subjects that I truly beleive to be non-negotiables), but this isn't one of those. I believe that there is a parallel future fulfillment of Matthew and Revelation. So Matthew was a local judgement on Israel where Jerusalem was destroyed, while Revelation deals with the salvation of Israel in the end by their King, their Messiah, Jesus. And as far as creation is concerned, it is finality. The end of the age that we live in. (Time, sin, etc.) The next age, I consider to be the eternal age in a New Heavens, New Earth, and New Jerusalem. Yes, it is pretty simplistic. I think it is. It is getting into details where things get deep and tangled.


deals with the salvation of Israel in the end
Just to be clear: do you mean the race-nation or the new faith-nation of Mt 21?
 
Yes, in the US. I had to work all night anyway. I did get to talk to family. Hope you had a happy thanksgiving. I may get a little heated (especially if you encroach on certain subjects that I truly beleive to be non-negotiables), but this isn't one of those. I believe that there is a parallel future fulfillment of Matthew and Revelation. So Matthew was a local judgement on Israel where Jerusalem was destroyed, while Revelation deals with the salvation of Israel in the end by their King, their Messiah, Jesus. And as far as creation is concerned, it is finality. The end of the age that we live in. (Time, sin, etc.) The next age, I consider to be the eternal age in a New Heavens, New Earth, and New Jerusalem. Yes, it is pretty simplistic. I think it is. It is getting into details where things get deep and tangled.


Yes the next age is the NHNE. I believe the transition to that to be very quick and not entangled in Judaic detail. Not that I can find in Thess, Rom 8, I Cor 15, 2 Peter 3...

I am all for a resurgence of Acts 2-4 and 13 type of apostolic beliefs in Israel today, but I'm sure they will be pounded by Orthodox and ignored by the seculars.
 
No believers have been resurrected yet. That doesn't happen until another time. Why do I say that? Because everyone else left autmatically faces the second death. Don't you want a chance not to.
That is not true. The bodily-resurrected Lazarus was definitely a believer, beloved by Christ. Likewise, the Matthew 27:52-53 bodily-resurrected saints were numbered among the resurrected elect, etc., etc.. And the "second death" was a first-century event: namely, the second time the city of Jerusalem and its temple were burned up, comparable to their first death under the Babylonian attack in 586 BC when Death and Hell came to plague those in the city of Jerusalem.
Well, that proves a lack of knowledge. TWO people left the planet without passing through death, and some say three. Enoch and Elijah. That is why I believe they will be the two witnesses in Revelation. It is then they will die. Thus the scripture is fulfilled. Your belief leaves two people who never die.
Elijah died just as any other person does. You must not have read the passage in 2 Chronicles 21:12-15 about Elijah writing a letter to King Jehoram some ten years AFTER his transport into the sky by the whirlwind. He was carried by that whirlwind to another location of this planet, where he later on wrote the letter to the king, listing his offenses and predicting the manner of his death.

As for Enoch, He was the lone person to whom God gave a translation change in order for him to be introduced to us later as the deathless Melchizedek who had no "end of days". Enoch / Melchizedek was the foundation establishing the "order of Melchizedek", of which high priesthood order Christ became our deathless Great High Priest. There only needs to be a single man to provide this example. The lone exception of one man's translation change does not translate into multiplied millions of people being promised a translation change of their bodies by never having to meet that one-time death appointment for all men, as required by Hebrews 9 :27.

God isn't PREDICTING anything. He is telling us what He will do. What He isn't telling us in this case is... when. That is not what Peter is saying. While to us a day is a big deal, to God it carries as little notice as a thousand years. That is what Peter is saying. If God wants to wait for a thousand years, to Him it will be as though He waited a day. If He waited a day, it would be as though He waitied a thousand years. That is how little note time has to God.
God most certainly was telling humanity in Ezekiel 12 WHEN an "AT HAND" prophecy is to be fulfilled, and He was telling the believers through Peter just when He was bringing events to pass in that first-century generation.

God is heavily invested in bringing prophesied events to fulfillment in the exact time frame in which they were predicted to happen. How many times was it said "In the fullness of time" God did such-and-such a thing? If you think God has no regard at all for the timing of prophesied events, you are sadly mistaken.
LAST days. If they were the last days, how did we end up with a over 750000 more days? The age that is to come is after this world passes away. We are still in this age.
There are multiple ages of human history, according to Paul, both before that age which included the first century events, and after it. The first-century generation was experiencing the end of an age with that age's "last days". There was another age of humanity following Peter's "end of all things" back then in the first century. We at present are in one of those multiple ages following that "end of all things". We are on the brink of the next, final age for humanity, the end of which will be followed by the ages of eternity.

Except that we are not told anything about the end, because not even Jesus knows. We don't know when this comes to pass. It will just happen. And when it is all over, as scripture says, the world and all the elements, the whole of creation, will melt with fervent heat. The last days truly are the last. When it is all over, everything is supposed to be as it was before Adam fell. I look around me, and it isn't.
The ascended Jesus did not remain ignorant of the time of His return. God told Him, and Jesus told John, who was to pass that information on to his servants so that they would be informed also (Rev. 1:1). That was the whole purpose of the book of Revelation's visions: for the enlightenment of the believers in that first-century generation of what God was already doing and was also about to do in their days.

And you misinterpret 2 Peter 3:10's prediction. It was not the entire world whose works would be burned up. It was "the earth" (tes ges - the land of Israel) which would be burned up, and the works that were therein. This literally happened in the cities of Judea during the AD 66-70 years. And the change to the state of affairs in the heavens also. Hebrews 12:26-27 said that God had NOW promised to shake not just the earth, but the heavens also - in that generation.
If it is like soon, soon can last thousands of years if you don't know when it is going to happen. The guy who knows just keeps telling you "soon" until it happens. Why? They want you anticipating the event every moment of your existence.
No, that statement is a bunch of bull. That idea is perpetuated by those like yourself and even the latest movie series "The Chosen", which repeatedly emphasizes that the word "soon" means nothing particular at all. I like the movie series, but considering the eschatology of those who made the series, I am not surprised that they keep proposing this ridiculous notion in the script. This is patently incorrect by every ordinary sense of the definition of the word "soon".

Hebrews 10:37 in speaking of "a very little while" until Christ's returning appearance (hoson, hoson - how soon, how soon) is employing the Hebraic writing method of double emphasis which carries the sense of certainty and imminence. As in Christ saying "Verily, verily" for added emphasis on the point He was making. As in "Mene, mene..." for how soon Belshazzar's kingdom would fall - in that same night. As in Pharoah's dream being doubled for how soon God would bring Egypt's coming famine to pass.
 
deals with the salvation of Israel in the end
Just to be clear: do you mean the race-nation or the new faith-nation of Mt 21?
When I speak of the ultimate salvation of Israel, I mean the remnant as God spoke of the remnant to Elijah. And with that, those who have yet to be saved/redeemed. Everyone who is left alive at the end of the tribulation of the nation of Israel, will be the remnant. I believe that when God carries out His judgement on Israel, all those who are not part of the elect will perish in the last days. Those who are still alive are the remnant, the elect of Israel. In some way I feel it is difficult to explain. God/Jesus will come to the rescue of His chosen people of the Nation of Israel, the remnant.
 
Yes the next age is the NHNE. I believe the transition to that to be very quick and not entangled in Judaic detail. Not that I can find in Thess, Rom 8, I Cor 15, 2 Peter 3...

I am all for a resurgence of Acts 2-4 and 13 type of apostolic beliefs in Israel today, but I'm sure they will be pounded by Orthodox and ignored by the seculars.
I believe that it will happen at the end of the millennium, immediately after the final judgement of Satan, death and hades, and all those whose names are not in the book of life. As soon as that is over, this creation will melt with fervent heat, and God will bring in the new. (Very simply explained. There is much more to it, but that is my to the point belief at this time. (Anything is subject to change while growing.))
 
Greetings TMSO,
When I speak of the ultimate salvation of Israel, I mean the remnant as God spoke of the remnant to Elijah. And with that, those who have yet to be saved/redeemed. Everyone who is left alive at the end of the tribulation of the nation of Israel, will be the remnant. I believe that when God carries out His judgement on Israel, all those who are not part of the elect will perish in the last days. Those who are still alive are the remnant, the elect of Israel. In some way I feel it is difficult to explain. God/Jesus will come to the rescue of His chosen people of the Nation of Israel, the remnant.
I consider that Jesus will convert a significant remnant of natural Israel when he returns, and they will form the first of the nations under the Kingdom of God for the 1000 years. The other nations will be subjected and learn the ways of God. I consider this is clear from Isaiah 2:1-4, and this prophecy is repeated in Micah 4 which gives more specific information about the position of the nation of Israel.
Micah 4:1–8 (KJV): 1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it. 2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 3 And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. 4 But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it. 5 For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever. 6 In that day, saith the LORD, will I assemble her that halteth, and I will gather her that is driven out, and her that I have afflicted; 7 And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever. 8 And thou, O tower of the flock, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem.

If you also add Zechariah 14, there is additional information concerning the status of the other nations.
Zechariah 14:16–19 (KJV): 16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

As such the nation of Israel and the nations will be mortal inhabitants of the Kingdom of God, while Jesus and the faithful up until the return of Jesus will be immortal kings and priests for the 1000 years, when Jesus sits upon the Temple Throne of David in Jerusalem.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
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Part I:
That is not true. The bodily-resurrected Lazarus was definitely a believer, beloved by Christ. Likewise, the Matthew 27:52-53 bodily-resurrected saints were numbered among the resurrected elect, etc., etc.. And the "second death" was a first-century event: namely, the second time the city of Jerusalem and its temple were burned up, comparable to their first death under the Babylonian attack in 586 BC when Death and Hell came to plague those in the city of Jerusalem.
I post the passage again.
John 11
"11 Now a certain man was sick, Lazarus of Bethany, the town of Mary and her sister Martha. 2 It was that Mary who anointed the Lord with fragrant oil and wiped His feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick. 3 Therefore the sisters sent to Him, saying, “Lord, behold, he whom You love is sick.”
4 When Jesus heard that, He said, “This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God may be glorified through it.”"

If Lazarus died, how is this sickness not unto death? It was different.

"11 These things He said, and after that He said to them, “Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up.”
12 Then His disciples said, “Lord, if he sleeps he will get well.” 13 However, Jesus spoke of his death, but they thought that He was speaking about taking rest in sleep.
14 Then Jesus said to them plainly, “Lazarus is dead. 15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, that you may believe. Nevertheless let us go to him.”"

I understand you really want Lazarus to be the first fruits from the dead, but that honor goes to the boy that Elisha raised from the dead. Or, you will recognize that none of these were resurrections, but simply those "sleeping" waking up. They aren't being resurrected. Their spirits are reentering their mortal bodies for a time, according to the purpose of God. Paul is clear that Jesus alone is the first fruits of the dead. If there are any others, than Jesus death loses all worth.

I Corinthians 15:
"20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have [d]fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all."

If Jesus is reigning now, then death has yet to be destroyed. The final enemy is not yet destroyed. It holds no power over believers because of Christ, but all others die and face the second death.

"51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many."

They came out of the grave as Lazarus did. Lazarus is not the Christ, so Lazarus was not the firstfruits of the dead. Paul is clear that this is Jesus. The reason why it is different for Jesus is because He was sinless and perfect. Lazarus, the kid in the OT, the young man Paul raised from the dead, they all died again. Their coming back to life served a purpose. Again, remember Jesus original words of encouragement and strength: "This sickness is not unto death," Again, I believe Jesus spoke to finality. That appointed time of death before judgement. How many people have died, medically stamped dead, who came back to life? They died again. Would that rationally not mean that it wasn't the appointed time? They didn't go to judgement, so it doesn't break the verse. They didn't die, go to judgement, and then come back to life, did they? What did Jesus say? He said they were only sleeping.
Elijah died just as any other person does.
Please, give a verse that states that Elijah did not pen a prophecy, give it to Elisha, and told him to pass this on to Jehoram who was already king. (Dual kingship for seven years I believe, between Jehoshaphat and Jehoram.
You must not have read the passage in 2 Chronicles 21:12-15 about Elijah writing a letter to King Jehoram some ten years AFTER his transport into the sky by the whirlwind. He was carried by that whirlwind to another location of this planet, where he later on wrote the letter to the king, listing his offenses and predicting the manner of his death.
There are three explanations that ignore yours. 1. The author was not writing chronologically at this point, and Elijah's translation to heaven was later in Jehoram's reign. (This is like the passage in Matthew, where the saints coming out of the grave is mentioned at Jesus death, but it says they didn't come out until Jesus resurrected. (Same time.)) Jehoshaphat and Jehoram had joint rule for about five to six years, if you look at the chronology.
2. Elijah wrote down the prophecy before he left, and left it with Elisha or someone else to send to king Jehoram at a later time. Elijah is a prophet, and that is kind of how prophecy works.
3. Elijah told Elisha what was going to happen, and when the time came, Elisha wrote down Elijah's prophecy and sent it to Jehoram.
I actually find the last two plausible, while yours, not so much. Phillip actually was translated by the Holy Spirit from one place to another, and there was no fiery chariot. He was carried away by the spirit. Elijah's spirit remained on Elisha.

The Jewish literature doesn't end Elijah's history until the end of the history of man, so basically, their tradition is that Elijah did not die. He was translated to heaven. Again, this makes Elijah a candidate for one of the two witnesses in Revelation. Traditionally, Jeremiah also didn't die, so he is another candidate. Enoch a third. Some say Moses, however, we know he died.
 
Part II
As for Enoch, He was the lone person to whom God gave a translation change in order for him to be introduced to us later as the deathless Melchizedek who had no "end of days".
With this and the comment below, I will keep from bringing up the sources that I found for this so I do not get accused of ad hominem, or poisoning the well. I will say that one comes from Hinduism, and the other comes from someone who says that Enoch is Metatron. I did not find what you say in any Jewish source that is biblical, though it is in 3 Enoch. I am going to stop now, because this is entering mysticism, which I do not ascribe to. One who does ascribe to this believes that one of the Mechizedek angels helped him in writing a book on the evils of Christmas.
Enoch / Melchizedek was the foundation establishing the "order of Melchizedek", of which high priesthood order Christ became our deathless Great High Priest. There only needs to be a single man to provide this example. The lone exception of one man's translation change does not translate into multiplied millions of people being promised a translation change of their bodies by never having to meet that one-time death appointment for all men, as required by Hebrews 9 :27.
God most certainly was telling humanity in Ezekiel 12 WHEN an "AT HAND" prophecy is to be fulfilled, and He was telling the believers through Peter just when He was bringing events to pass in that first-century generation.
I really don't want to argue this point, but I read Ezekiel 12, and well, that isn't what God was saying at all. He basically said that the postponement of ALL the prophecies (not just Ezekiel) of exile for Judah would no longer be postponed.

"26 Again the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 27 “Son of man, look, the house of Israel is saying, ‘The vision that he sees is for many days from now, and he prophesies of times far off.’ 28 Therefore say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “None of My words will be postponed any more, but the word which I speak will be done,” says the Lord God.’ ”"
God is heavily invested in bringing prophesied events to fulfillment in the exact time frame in which they were predicted to happen. How many times was it said "In the fullness of time" God did such-and-such a thing? If you think God has no regard at all for the timing of prophesied events, you are sadly mistaken.
Do you believe that the fullness of the Gentiles has come in yet? That the time of the Gentiles has come to pass? (What Paul talks about.) You are not looking at the context of all scripture. Revelation is the future. It speaks to the redemption of ALL creation. The whole planet. The scroll with the seven seals is God the Father's will, as in a last will and testament. In this case, it is the inheritance of the Son, who alone is worthy to take it.
There are multiple ages of human history, according to Paul, both before that age which included the first century events, and after it. The first-century generation was experiencing the end of an age with that age's "last days". There was another age of humanity following Peter's "end of all things" back then in the first century. We at present are in one of those multiple ages following that "end of all things". We are on the brink of the next, final age for humanity, the end of which will be followed by the ages of eternity.
Please share references of these different ages. See if they match what Jesus said when He told the religious leaders that their sin against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in the first century, nay, not even the second. Oh wait. He said this age, or the next, clearly delineating between the temporal and the eternal. No forgiveness in life, or death. That is, the sin is utterly unpardonable. Any sin against the Father or the Son will be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, in this age or the next. (Which century is this next age, and where does Paul talk about it?)
The ascended Jesus did not remain ignorant of the time of His return. God told Him, and Jesus told John, who was to pass that information on to his servants so that they would be informed also (Rev. 1:1). That was the whole purpose of the book of Revelation's visions: for the enlightenment of the believers in that first-century generation of what God was already doing and was also about to do in their days.
That is conjecture. I found a site explaining ancient Hebrew marriage traditions. During the period of betrothal, where one is basically married, but not yet together (the time during which Joseph found Mary pregnant and was considering divorce), the two are apart while the groom prepares a place for the bride. This time is about a year. The bride has to be ready, because the bride does not know when this time will end, just that it is about a year. The groom does not go to pick up the bride, until the father of the groom gives the approval for the groom to return and pick up his bride. (This period is known as the erusin period.) The groom does not know when they will receive the final approval. In the same way, only the Father knows when the Son will return. There is no reason to believe that the angels also knew, is there? I mean, Jesus was clear when He said only the Father knows. And no, that is not what the book of Revelation was about. It is the final days of all creation. When Revelation is over, the world is gone.
And you misinterpret 2 Peter 3:10's prediction. It was not the entire world whose works would be burned up. It was "the earth" (tes ges - the land of Israel) which would be burned up, and the works that were therein. This literally happened in the cities of Judea during the AD 66-70 years. And the change to the state of affairs in the heavens also. Hebrews 12:26-27 said that God had NOW promised to shake not just the earth, but the heavens also - in that generation.
I take it you didn't use a lexicon in your research. Even the lexicon says that the verses in 2 Peter are speaking of the whole earth in contrast to heaven.

and the earthγῆ
(gē)
1093: the earth, landa prim. word

1093 gḗproperly, the physical earth; (figuratively) the "arena" we live in which operates in space and time which God uses to prepare us for eternity.

The physical earth (1093 /gḗ) is the temporary, probationary place to live out moral preferences "through the body," i.e. as free moral agents (cf. 2 Cor 5:1-10). In this way, God makes an eternal record of everything we do on the earth. Through faith, each scene of life becomes equally, eternally significant (cf. Mt 13:31,32,17:20; cf. also Lk 16:10; Lk 17:6; 2 Pet 1:1).

[The OT Hebrew term, 776 /asitía ("earth"), also refers to the physical earth as "God's arena" – "the physical theater" in which our eternal destiny freely plays out.]

"4. the earth as a whole, the world (Latinterrarumorbis);
a. the earth as opposed to the heavens: Matthew 5:18, 35; Matthew 6:10; Matthew 16:19; Matthew 18:18; Matthew 24:35; Mark 13:31; Luke 2:14; John 12:32; Acts 2:19; Acts 4:24; 2 Peter 3:5, 7, 10, 13; Revelation 21:1;"
No, that statement is a bunch of bull. That idea is perpetuated by those like yourself and even the latest movie series "The Chosen", which repeatedly emphasizes that the word "soon" means nothing particular at all. I like the movie series, but considering the eschatology of those who made the series, I am not surprised that they keep proposing this ridiculous notion in the script. This is patently incorrect by every ordinary sense of the definition of the word "soon".
Please tell me you aren't Mormon. Tell me when soon is not soon. (Note, you don't know the time the event is going to occur.)
Hebrews 10:37 in speaking of "a very little while" until Christ's returning appearance (hoson, hoson - how soon, how soon) is employing the Hebraic writing method of double emphasis which carries the sense of certainty and imminence. As in Christ saying "Verily, verily" for added emphasis on the point He was making. As in "Mene, mene..." for how soon Belshazzar's kingdom would fall - in that same night. As in Pharoah's dream being doubled for how soon God would bring Egypt's coming famine to pass.
" 35 Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:

37 “For yet a little while,
And He[l] who is coming will come and will not [m]tarry.
38 Now the[n] just shall live by faith;
But if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.”"

I'll just leave the context.
 
Greetings TMSO,

I consider that Jesus will convert a significant remnant of natural Israel when he returns, and they will form the first of the nations under the Kingdom of God for the 1000 years. The other nations will be subjected and learn the ways of God. I consider this is clear from Isaiah 2:1-4, and this prophecy is repeated in Micah 4 which gives more specific information about the position of the nation of Israel.
Sort of. I feel that they will live in Israel, and be the center of future feasts held to the glory of God and His Son. They will continue to live, and perhaps die to join Christ, as they continue living having survived the tribulation.
Micah 4:1–8 (KJV): 1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it. 2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 3 And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. 4 But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it. 5 For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever. 6 In that day, saith the LORD, will I assemble her that halteth, and I will gather her that is driven out, and her that I have afflicted; 7 And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever. 8 And thou, O tower of the flock, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem.

If you also add Zechariah 14, there is additional information concerning the status of the other nations.
Zechariah 14:16–19 (KJV): 16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

As such the nation of Israel and the nations will be mortal inhabitants of the Kingdom of God, while Jesus and the faithful up until the return of Jesus will be immortal kings and priests for the 1000 years, when Jesus sits upon the Temple Throne of David in Jerusalem.

Kind regards
Trevor
I absolutely believe that people who survive the tribulation are the elect, as everyone is destroyed on Christ's return. They will continue to live, and will repopulate the world over the thousand years. I am not sure whether they live the whole thousand years or if they die to join Christ in a more full manner. Since their children did not experience Christ the way their parents, grandparents, etc did, they will be deceivable when Satan is released from captivity. They weren't "saved" like those who came through the tribulation.
 
When I speak of the ultimate salvation of Israel, I mean the remnant as God spoke of the remnant to Elijah. And with that, those who have yet to be saved/redeemed. Everyone who is left alive at the end of the tribulation of the nation of Israel, will be the remnant. I believe that when God carries out His judgement on Israel, all those who are not part of the elect will perish in the last days. Those who are still alive are the remnant, the elect of Israel. In some way I feel it is difficult to explain. God/Jesus will come to the rescue of His chosen people of the Nation of Israel, the remnant.

It is clear enough. It is the belief in a future tribulation and a remnant who actually believe are saved.

What then do you think of both Luke (Jesus) and Paul recording that the full wrath of God has come upon Israel in their time: Lk 21, 2 Th 2? There is no doubt this is expected in that generation, from the vivid description of a Roman siege in Luke.
 
I believe that it will happen at the end of the millennium, immediately after the final judgement of Satan, death and hades, and all those whose names are not in the book of life. As soon as that is over, this creation will melt with fervent heat, and God will bring in the new. (Very simply explained. There is much more to it, but that is my to the point belief at this time. (Anything is subject to change while growing.))

Of all the people I have exchanged with you are the best at keeping a sequence mostly intact, but my question is your starting point. But once started, you are fine.

You might contrast it this way:
Yours: Jesus ministry--delay--future wrath on Israel--millenium--NHNE
Mine: Jesus ministry and reign--wrath on Israel--delay-- future NHNE

I have put reign in bold because Acts 2-4, 13, Eph 1, Phil 2, Heb 1 all refer to it as present, inaugurated by the resurrection, and in the imperative mood (You don't 'see' a kingdom, but it is mandatory that all rulers and ordinary folks 'honor the Son, lest He be angry.') Btw, this matches Dan 2 without any future amendments; the kingdom of God arrives, undermining 'precious metal' type statue type human kingdoms, and is the redemptive 'mountain of the Lord' toward which all nations come.

One of the fundamental questions is accepting the grammatical conclusion of Acts 2:30, that David saw the resurrection as the Davidic fulfillment. D'ism and SDAs (see "Trevor" here at CCCF) do not; the two beliefs hatched at the same time in the 1800s. Some historians refer to D'ism as American Adventism. Their answer to the grammar is that the resurrection only confirmed that a 'reign of another David' from Jerusalem would take place at some distant future time. Well, in ch 3, yes, there are distant future events, but the reign is current. Same with the expression 'until I make your enemies your footcushion.' That's future, but he has been enthroned in the imperative sense.

It is the role of preserving the Law in Adventism that also preserves a Judaic eschatology. It is intriguing that this is also found in Messianic Judaism, where their doctrinal statement shortlists say you must believe in the sacred 'eretz' (land), as essential as human sin and justification.
 
Part I:

I post the passage again.
John 11
"11 Now a certain man was sick, Lazarus of Bethany, the town of Mary and her sister Martha. 2 It was that Mary who anointed the Lord with fragrant oil and wiped His feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick. 3 Therefore the sisters sent to Him, saying, “Lord, behold, he whom You love is sick.”
4 When Jesus heard that, He said, “This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God may be glorified through it.”"

If Lazarus died, how is this sickness not unto death? It was different.

"11 These things He said, and after that He said to them, “Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up.”
12 Then His disciples said, “Lord, if he sleeps he will get well.” 13 However, Jesus spoke of his death, but they thought that He was speaking about taking rest in sleep.
14 Then Jesus said to them plainly, “Lazarus is dead. 15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, that you may believe. Nevertheless let us go to him.”"

I understand you really want Lazarus to be the first fruits from the dead, but that honor goes to the boy that Elisha raised from the dead. Or, you will recognize that none of these were resurrections, but simply those "sleeping" waking up. They aren't being resurrected. Their spirits are reentering their mortal bodies for a time, according to the purpose of God. Paul is clear that Jesus alone is the first fruits of the dead. If there are any others, than Jesus death loses all worth.

I Corinthians 15:
"20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have [d]fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all."

If Jesus is reigning now, then death has yet to be destroyed. The final enemy is not yet destroyed. It holds no power over believers because of Christ, but all others die and face the second death.

"51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many."

They came out of the grave as Lazarus did. Lazarus is not the Christ, so Lazarus was not the firstfruits of the dead. Paul is clear that this is Jesus. The reason why it is different for Jesus is because He was sinless and perfect. Lazarus, the kid in the OT, the young man Paul raised from the dead, they all died again. Their coming back to life served a purpose. Again, remember Jesus original words of encouragement and strength: "This sickness is not unto death," Again, I believe Jesus spoke to finality. That appointed time of death before judgement. How many people have died, medically stamped dead, who came back to life? They died again. Would that rationally not mean that it wasn't the appointed time? They didn't go to judgement, so it doesn't break the verse. They didn't die, go to judgement, and then come back to life, did they? What did Jesus say? He said they were only sleeping.

Please, give a verse that states that Elijah did not pen a prophecy, give it to Elisha, and told him to pass this on to Jehoram who was already king. (Dual kingship for seven years I believe, between Jehoshaphat and Jehoram.

There are three explanations that ignore yours. 1. The author was not writing chronologically at this point, and Elijah's translation to heaven was later in Jehoram's reign. (This is like the passage in Matthew, where the saints coming out of the grave is mentioned at Jesus death, but it says they didn't come out until Jesus resurrected. (Same time.)) Jehoshaphat and Jehoram had joint rule for about five to six years, if you look at the chronology.
2. Elijah wrote down the prophecy before he left, and left it with Elisha or someone else to send to king Jehoram at a later time. Elijah is a prophet, and that is kind of how prophecy works.
3. Elijah told Elisha what was going to happen, and when the time came, Elisha wrote down Elijah's prophecy and sent it to Jehoram.
I actually find the last two plausible, while yours, not so much. Phillip actually was translated by the Holy Spirit from one place to another, and there was no fiery chariot. He was carried away by the spirit. Elijah's spirit remained on Elisha.

The Jewish literature doesn't end Elijah's history until the end of the history of man, so basically, their tradition is that Elijah did not die. He was translated to heaven. Again, this makes Elijah a candidate for one of the two witnesses in Revelation. Traditionally, Jeremiah also didn't die, so he is another candidate. Enoch a third. Some say Moses, however, we know he died.


The two witnesses are Peter and Paul.
 
"5 And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. 6 And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language. 7 Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? 8 And how is it that we hear, each in our own [c]language in which we were born? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretans and [d]Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.” 12 So they were all amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “Whatever could this mean?”"

Jews. The only mention of anyone different is proselytes, and it doesn't say whether they are Gentiles or not. Once could always ASSUME it means Gentiles. And you made me look up sebomai: to revere, to worship.

This was definitely black and white. Jews and proselytes. In other words, Judaism, or you weren't there. God's law allowed for foreigners to become Jews.

The 'sebomai' were at most synagogues when Paul went around, so they were at the festival, too.

By no black and white, I mean time periods. Jesus was furious and done with Jews; and Paul was early on; yet 30 years later he still tries to engage some. There were Greeks who came to Jesus; the Syrian woman was praised for greater faith; a Roman had greater faith; a Roman was worshipping God and Peter was sent to him, etc, etc, etc. There are lines in Isaiah that say that certain nations were moved around parallel to Israel being brought back from Egypt. Daniel's gospel was believed by Persian maji and they preserved that for centuries until their star calculators said it was time to go to Israel, etc, etc, etc. Nineveh repented.
 
Can't seem to get interaction on Barnett. I will paste him again here. Also please see #181 if you do not have have a historical sense for Dan 9.








Barnett, BEHIND THE SCENES OF THE NT: “Patmos”



Using coded language John writes of the menace of Rome to Christians. Rome is portrayed as the instrument of “a great red dragon…” (ch 12).

This dragon gave authority to two beasts, a sea beast and an earth beast, to “make war on the saints…” (ch 13). The sea beast (from his location) is John’s code for the Roman emperor (who had just required all people to refer to him as “Lord and God”), while the earth beast represents the high priest of Asia, who officiates at the major cultic activities within in the province… The earth beast engages in magical arts to hoodwink the populace into worshipping the image of the “sea beast” (ch 13).

Although the dragon appears to be rampant on earth he is in fact, bound, limited, circumscribed through the period between Christ’s resurrection and his return—symbolically a thousand years (ch 20). Those who have lost their lives for Jesus’ sake, …reign with him throughout the millenium, sharing his victory over the dragon.

John’s book, therefore, was written above all to strengthen and encourage Christians facing harassment and persecution from Roman officials in the city s of the Province of Asia. John was deeply conscious of the political events in the wider world. He made many references, in particular, to the critical events of the sixties, but in tantalizing and elusive ways.

The massing of the dreaded Parthian cavalry near the Euphrates in AD 62 and the barely averted conflict with Rome’s eastern legions appears to be in mind on a number occasions (chs 6, 9). John develops horrific images of fiendish galloping cavalry based, apparently, on his knowledge of the Parthians and Euphrates region.

The great fire which devasted the world capital in AD 64 seems to have supplied John with imagery for the coming judgment of the “harlot city.” Despite her gaudy opulence and immorality and her immense wealth and power (inspired by memories of Claudius wife, the notorious Messalina?), God will bring upon her overwhelming destruction in a single day. (ch 18)

Once again John has apparently taken an event in recent history and converted it into powerfully vivid apocalyptic language.

Nero’s bloody onslaught on Christians which followed and was a direct result of the fire of Rome also provided much of John’s descriptive language. He wrote about the woman, the harlot Rome in ch 17 and 13.

The writer’s enigmatic description of the two witnesses/two prophets who were killed and who bodies lay in the streets of the great city (ch 11) is probably but not certainly) a reference to the martyr-deaths of the apostles Peter and Paul which occurred in Rome during Nero’s persecutions. (ch 11).

Nero’s own career ended in disaster. He was condemned by the Senate…and took his own life. There were widespread beliefs in Nero redivivus that may lay behind Johns’ description of one of the heads of the sea beast which revived. (ch 13)

Nero dominated the sixties. To that point in history he had been the greatest enemy of the Christians, satanic in his dimension of evil…

The eighth king is, in all probability, Domitian. …John was using the events of the recent past to depict the future…

In contrast to Domitian’s requirement to worship him, the true Lord of Lords and King of Kings declares a gospel from heaven in which we are to worship God. It is only in this century that scholars have begun to have an appreciation of John’s profound awareness of and audacious attack upon the theological pretentiousness of Roman civilization.

It is, in my opinion, of great significance that John used the dramatic historical events within his book. In earlier decades, Christians had expected Jesus to return at any moment (2 Th 2, 3). If one had experienced the firey destruction of the ‘eternal city’ in AD 64 and the bloodbath that followed, removing as it did the great apostles Peter and Paul, or the sacking of Mount Zion and desecration of the Holy Place in AD 70, it would easily have seemed that the end would come at any moment.

But…in fact John saw the return of Jesus as not occurring for some considerable time.




--pages 237—241.
 
Greetings TMSO,

I consider that Jesus will convert a significant remnant of natural Israel when he returns, and they will form the first of the nations under the Kingdom of God for the 1000 years. The other nations will be subjected and learn the ways of God. I consider this is clear from Isaiah 2:1-4, and this prophecy is repeated in Micah 4 which gives more specific information about the position of the nation of Israel.
Micah 4:1–8 (KJV): 1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it. 2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 3 And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. 4 But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it. 5 For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever. 6 In that day, saith the LORD, will I assemble her that halteth, and I will gather her that is driven out, and her that I have afflicted; 7 And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever. 8 And thou, O tower of the flock, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem.

If you also add Zechariah 14, there is additional information concerning the status of the other nations.
Zechariah 14:16–19 (KJV): 16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

As such the nation of Israel and the nations will be mortal inhabitants of the Kingdom of God, while Jesus and the faithful up until the return of Jesus will be immortal kings and priests for the 1000 years, when Jesus sits upon the Temple Throne of David in Jerusalem.

Kind regards
Trevor

Can you cite any grammatical reference for not seeing the resurrection as the expected Davidic enthronement in Acts 2:30. I have a Greek analytical (Assoc. Publishers) and Bauer-Arndt-Gingrich literary (U of Chicago) lexicons.
 
I understand you really want Lazarus to be the first fruits from the dead,
No, I don't. That honorary title goes to the 144,000 First-fruits (the Matthew 27:52-53 resurrected ones) and Christ the First-fruits. This was the "First resurrection" - the first mass group resurrection event which took place in AD 33. The others individuals raised on a case-by-case basis were not called the "First resurrection" event.

The title "First-fruits" is plural, meaning a massive group raised at one time. But out of that First-fruits group, Christ was in addition given the totally unique title of "the First-born" and the "First-begotten" because He was the first to ascend to the Father in that resurrected, glorified human body form. All the others raised to an immortal glorified body did not ascend to the Father until later in AD 70, including those few OT resurrections as well as the single case of the translated Enoch. Revelation 15:8 tells us when these were finally allowed entrance into heaven's temple, which was when the 7 plagues were all finished back in AD 70.

Please, give a verse that states that Elijah did not pen a prophecy, give it to Elisha, and told him to pass this on to Jehoram who was already king. (Dual kingship for seven years I believe, between Jehoshaphat and Jehoram.
No, the burden of proof is on you to prove that Elijah was writing a prophecy about King Jehoram and that he gave it to Elisha. Elijah writes AFTER the fact of King Jehoram's acts of sin. He does not write that King Jehoram will commit these acts in the future. He writes of these acts of the king as already done and deserving of pending judgment for them.

Besides, Christ said in John 3:13 that "no man hath ascended up to heaven" as of that point. This means the LXX account of Elijah's transport by the whirlwind into the sky is correct when it says "And Elijah was taken AS IT WERE INTO HEAVEN". Not that he really did ascend to God's presence in heaven, but was merely transported into the atmospheric heaven to another location on earth where he wrote the letter to King Jehoram later on. He died as all other men die - the one-time death appointment for all men, save the lone example of Enoch's translation.
Please don't quote tradition as proof, which is so often twisted far from the truth.

And my comments about Enoch being introduced later as Melchizedek are based on the information we have in scripture about this man in Genesis and Hebrews, and the quotes from Enoch in Jude and Peter. Nothing else.

I really don't want to argue this point, but I read Ezekiel 12, and well, that isn't what God was saying at all.
There really is no point is discussing this if you if you disregard God's own definition of when an "at hand" prophecy is fulfilled in Ezekiel 12:21-28.

Do you believe that the fullness of the Gentiles has come in yet? That the time of the Gentiles has come to pass? (What Paul talks about.)
I believe that Paul taught that under the terms of the New Covenant, there is neither Jew nor Greek, bond nor free, male nor female. If you still want to look at the body of believers in terms of these segregated categories, then you will be departing from Christ's and Paul's message of "one fold" and "One New Man". This mystery of God was pronounced as finished in Revelation 10:7 - by the time the 7th angel had sounded. And that was back in AD 70 when "the power of the holy people" was shattered, and all those "weak and beggarly elements" of segregated categories was manifested openly as having been destroyed. In God's mind, there is no longer a division between Jew and Gentile. You and I are not Gentiles. We are the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus in the One Fold with One Shepherd.

Please share references of these different ages. See if they match what Jesus said when He told the religious leaders that their sin against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in the first century, nay, not even the second. Oh wait. He said this age, or the next, clearly delineating between the temporal and the eternal
Paul refers to these multiple ages from several perspectives of the chronological timeline of human history.

There were multiple ages in the past from Paul's perspective (1 Cor. 10:11 "Now these things happened to them as an example, but they were written down for our instruction, on whom the ends of THE AGES has come." And Hebrews 9:26 "...He has appeared once for all at the end of THE AGES to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself."

There were also multiple ages that were coming in the future from Paul's perspective; the ages of eternity were also included within this classification. As in Ephesians 1:21's distinction between the end of the Old Covenant Age and "the COMING ONE" that was soon to arrive. And after that coming age was full established, Paul also predicted multiple ages to follow. As in Ephesians 2:6-7, "And hath raised us up together and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus. That in the AGES (plural) TO COME he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness towards us through Christ Jesus."

The Revelation 20 millennium was the 4th millennial age of human history, which "expired" and was "finished" with the First Resurrection event back in AD 33.

I mean, Jesus was clear when He said only the Father knows. And no, that is not what the book of Revelation was about. It is the final days of all creation. When Revelation is over, the world is gone.
That was a present tense verb Jesus used in His statement. "No man knoweth the day nor the hour..." was a present tense situation at the time Jesus spoke those words, but it would not always remain so. Once the believers saw the two events take place in the same season of time which Daniel had predicted in Daniel 12:11-13, they were then able to count down the days until Christ's return, which were 1,335 days from the start of those two predicted events. Jesus told those of his first-century audience that if they read Daniel, they would understand the timing of what He was predicting. We looking back on those two events taking place in the same season can determine what day Christ Jesus returned back in the first century. And it was Pentecost day in AD 70.

I take it you didn't use a lexicon in your research
I've no problem using lexicons, but they are not inspired. I read the constant use in scripture of the term "Earth" or "Land" in the OT and the NT where it refers to the promised land which the Israelites were given to dwell in. Anything else outside those borders of the "four corners of the land" in Israel the Jews considered as Gentile, classified as "the sea" in Isaiah 60:5. God many times addresses the specific land of Israel itself as "Earth" (Jeremiah 22:29-30). And Revelation was written by a Jew, making multiple references to OT prophecies and terminology. When John makes a distinction between "sea" and "land / earth" in Revelation, most of the time he is referring to Gentile versus Jewish categories. At least, up until he pronounces that "there is no more sea".

Please tell me you aren't Mormon. Tell me when soon is not soon. (Note, you don't know the time the event is going to occur.)
? No, I'm not Mormon. Soon always means soon - an event which will transpire within a very short time for the ones who are originally addressed.

37 “For yet a little while,
And He[l] who is coming will come and will not [m]tarry.
38 Now the[n] just shall live by faith;
But if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.”"

I'll just leave the context.
And the context indicated an imminent return of Christ to those whom Hebrews 10:37 was addressing. Which happened on AD 70's Pentecost day.
 
Greetings again TMSO and EarlyActs,
I absolutely believe that people who survive the tribulation are the elect, as everyone is destroyed on Christ's return.
I do not accept that everyone (else) is destroyed at Christ's return.
Can you cite any grammatical reference for not seeing the resurrection as the expected Davidic enthronement in Acts 2:30.
Acts 2:30 speaks of the exaltation of Jesus to sit at the right hand of God Psalm 110:1, Revelation 3:21-22. Jesus is yet to return and sit upon the Temple Throne of David in Jerusalem for the 1000 years Isaiah 2:1-4. I have a lot of reference books too and we need to use them wisely.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
Greetings again TMSO and EarlyActs,

I do not accept that everyone (else) is destroyed at Christ's return.

Acts 2:30 speaks of the exaltation of Jesus to sit at the right hand of God Psalm 110:1, Revelation 3:21-22. Jesus is yet to return and sit upon the Temple Throne of David in Jerusalem for the 1000 years Isaiah 2:1-4. I have a lot of reference books too and we need to use them wisely.

Kind regards
Trevor

The grammar only goes to one place. The alt grammar goes beyond it--I mean that in the sense of Paul in Acts 26 'we should not go beyond what Moses and the prophets were saying.' The grammar says that the thing seen by David was not the throne, but the resurrection, which was the enthronement event. It matches Ps 110 perfectly: the enthronement has taken place in honor of his sacrifice, and the world should obey the Son, lest he be angry. At the end of time the Father will smash his enemies, turning them into his footstool.

It is not a kingdom you see and ID as usual, nor is the kingdom of Dan 2, so it matches that.
 
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