Suffering and the Christian

[Arial]

Romans 8:28
And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

I would guess that a great majority of Christians know that verse as well as we know our own name. We love that verse. And we tend to disconnect it from its context. It is connected to suffering in the preceding verses.

16-18 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs---heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him. For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.

There is suffering in this world. We all know that. It surrounds us on every side. The whole world became corrupted with the fall of Adam as we also see in Romans 8. And yet, we tend to focus on the one word "good" in the scripture when all is going well, and are sometimes surprised, taken off guard, shaken a bit or a lot, when bad things happen to us or those near and dear to us. We cannot see in any way shape or form how it is working for our good.

Neither could the Hebrews as they served as slave labor building the monuments to the deities of Egypt for over four hundred years. Neither could Hagar as she wept for her son in the wilderness. Neither, frankly could the Israelites as they wandered in the desert. Sure they did back breaking work in Egypt, but they had beds in which to lay their tired bodies, and such delicacies to feast on, and water everywhere they looked. Surely, they thought, God brought us out here to kill us. Joseph had no clue what was going to happen when his brothers sold him into slavery.

But we have what they did not. The whole story of those historical events. Even so, we are blind in our own lives as to have any idea what God is doing in and through our suffering. We may see some of it in hindsight, or we may never see any of it, and it is safe to assume we will never see all of it, at least this side of Home.

However, in all those narratives, and countless more, we learn something about God that is very personal and always true. He is the God who sees. He is the God who hears. He is the God who knows. He is the God who loves his covenant people and is always working things for their good----according to His purpose. He is the God who is good. There is no shadow of turning with Him. His eye is upon us, each and every one, all of the time.

We do not deny our suffering. And we certainly do not call what is bad, good. We wait and He will again strengthen our heart. He will see us through to the other side of whatever it is. He will be our strength and our hiding place. As the Psalmist says, "Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I will fear no evil, for you are with me."

We cannot refuse to go through that valley as God means it for our good or is using it for our good, and we cannot go around it. We must go through it, but we do not do so alone, and He did not leave us as orphans.

 

[Mr GLee]

Romans 8:28
And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

I would guess that a great majority of Christians know that verse as well as we know our own name. We love that verse. And we tend to disconnect it from its context. It is connected to suffering in the preceding verses.

16-18 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs---heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him. For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.

There is suffering in this world. We all know that. It surrounds us on every side. The whole world became corrupted with the fall of Adam as we also see in Romans 8. And yet, we tend to focus on the one word "good" in the scripture when all is going well, and are sometimes surprised, taken off guard, shaken a bit or a lot, when bad things happen to us or those near and dear to us. We cannot see in any way shape or form how it is working for our good.

Neither could the Hebrews as they served as slave labor building the monuments to the deities of Egypt for over four hundred years. Neither could Hagar as she wept for her son in the wilderness. Neither, frankly could the Israelites as they wandered in the desert. Sure they did back breaking work in Egypt, but they had beds in which to lay their tired bodies, and such delicacies to feast on, and water everywhere they looked. Surely, they thought, God brought us out here to kill us. Joseph had no clue what was going to happen when his brothers sold him into slavery.

But we have what they did not. The whole story of those historical events. Even so, we are blind in our own lives as to have any idea what God is doing in and through our suffering. We may see some of it in hindsight, or we may never see any of it, and it is safe to assume we will never see all of it, at least this side of Home.

However, in all those narratives, and countless more, we learn something about God that is very personal and always true. He is the God who sees. He is the God who hears. He is the God who knows. He is the God who loves his covenant people and is always working things for their good----according to His purpose. He is the God who is good. There is no shadow of turning with Him. His eye is upon us, each and every one, all of the time.

We do not deny our suffering. And we certainly do not call what is bad, good. We wait and He will again strengthen our heart. He will see us through to the other side of whatever it is. He will be our strength and our hiding place. As the Psalmist says, "Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I will fear no evil, for you are with me."

We cannot refuse to go through that valley as God means it for our good or is using it for our good, and we cannot go around it. We must go through it, but we do not do so alone, and He did not leave us as orphans.

I would offer.

Catholics say we fill up the suffering of Christ in limbo. Rather than the arrows of Satan meant for the Son of man, Jesus. . are directed at us as. (persecutions)

He hates all Christians.

Colossians 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church

 

[fastfredy0]

And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

... I've wondered ... about this verse ... does "all things" mean that the totality of everything without exception works to a Christian's good .... seems losing an arm for example is not a good thing

or ... does everything minor thing imaginable work to the good of God and to the degree an incident, say having an arm ripped off is not a good thing for an individual; since God determined it, it must be a good thing for God and if it is good for God that a bad thing happens to me then it is good for me that I can be of service to God.

oh well, what do I know. ... end of meandering thoughts (for now) *giggle*

 

[Mr GLee]

... I've wondered ... about this verse ... does "all things" mean that the totality of everything without exception works to a Christian's good .... seems losing an arm for example is not a good thing

or ... does everything minor thing imaginable work to the good of God and to the degree an incident, say having an arm ripped off is not a good thing for an individual; since God determined it, it must be a good thing for God and if it is good for God that a bad thing happens to me then it is good for me that I can be of service to God.

oh well, what do I know. ... end of meandering thoughts (for now) *giggle*

I would offer.

In the same way the Spirit also helps our infirmities as a good thing .Things that works against the father of lies .

The word good is preserved for Christ alone. Only he is good .


Roman 8:26-28 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

 

[Arial]

... I've wondered ... about this verse ... does "all things" mean that the totality of everything without exception works to a Christian's good .... seems losing an arm for example is not a good thing

or ... does everything minor thing imaginable work to the good of God and to the degree an incident, say having an arm ripped off is not a good thing for an individual; since God determined it, it must be a good thing for God and if it is good for God that a bad thing happens to me then it is good for me that I can be of service to God.

oh well, what do I know. ... end of meandering thoughts (for now) *giggle*

That passage doesn't say all things that happen to a Christian are good. Paul has just told us the Christian will suffer in this world.He says that the sufferings we endure are as nothing compared to what awaits us. (If your want an overview of what that is see Is. 11; Rev 21:1-7; Thes 4;1 Cor 15.) It does not say that God determined you would have your arm ripped off and therefore that is a good thing.

It is a set of passages that are written to those who Paul was writing to, and by extension the entire body of Christ, who were no doubt suffering. Paul himself went through much suffering. It is intended to give encouragement, strengthening, patience in suffering, endurance, through solid truths concerning what we cannot see. To give a base of truth on which to rest faith. Not over thinking.

 

[Arial]

God says in that passage that even the bad things that happen in our life he will work for our good. He will bring the good purposes he has for us (and for his purposes in redemption) to pass. He will not let go of us. He is not absent or uncaring of our suffering. He sees it. He knows it. He hears us when we pray and when we cry, when we mourn, when we are in pain, when we are desperate, when we are faltering, and even if it is best (and only he knows that for he knows all things) that he not remove whatever it is as quickly or in the way we deem best, it does not mean that he is ignoring the situation, or removed himself from it. Ultimately something good will come from it, good for us.

How many times have, probably all of us, gone through something truly awful. And come out the other side, look back and say, "That was terrible, but look where it brought me and without it I would not be here." In the midst of it we no doubt prayed for deliverance from whatever it was, and received from God no deliverance according to our definition of it. But then discover God was answering that prayer all along, even though we were suffering, but that what we thought we needed restored is the very thing he was delivering us from. And the "here" might be an actual location, or a faith and joy in God that is stronger and more grounded in biblical truths. We are able to see what we could not see before. And if we are attentive, we remember it the next time the sufferings of this world hit us where we live. We become less rigid in his hands and more pliable. And even if we don't, God still does what God does according to his promises. He uphold us. He keeps us as the apple of his eye.

The suffering is not good. We must be very careful to not call what is bad, good. We do not like it and we should not like it, and God does not expect us to like it. He desires that we trust him and lean on him. No matter how we feel, God is always holding us up. And even when it is time to die, that is for the believer, the calling home to glory, to be with him, full and complete deliverance from the suffering of this world. Of course that leaves a lot of other people left here, in deep grief and sorrow. Suffering. And these are things we must go through, but through we will go. They cannot kill us or separate us from our Father.