Sayings of Jesus on the atonement

[Carbon]

Do the Lord Jesus' sayings assign a special reference to his redemptive work?
What is the extent of the Atonement according to Jesus?


To start with, to those whom he atoned for, he calls them many.
Jesus speaks of those for whom his blood was shed, and who were the objects of his redemption work.
For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. Matt 26:28
just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.” Matt 20:28

 

[John Bauer]

What is the extent of the atonement according to Jesus?

"I lay down my life for the sheep."

"You are not my sheep."

Pretty clear to me.

 

[Carbon]

"I lay down my life for the sheep."

"You are not my sheep."

Pretty clear to me.

Indeed. Clear to me also.

 

[Carbon]

To start with, to those whom he atoned for, he calls them many.

John Bauer said:
"I lay down my life for the sheep."

"You are not my sheep."

Pretty clear to me.

Our Lord calls the objects of his atonement his sheep
just as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. John 10:15.

They are already called his sheep, because they were given to him in the divine decree, and known as his own. So necessarily was it that some link of connection should be formed between Christ and the objects of redemption, such as obtains between shepherd and sheep, head and members, that without it an atonement could not have been made.

 

[Carbon]

They are already called his sheep, because they were given to him in the divine decree, and known as his own.

Christ did not die with uncertainty whether he should have a flock, but with special objects of redemption before his mind, to whom he was already knit by a tie necessary for the redemptive work.

And these are also his purchased property, the result or fruit of his atonement. These were already Christ's sheep before he died, they were so in the divine purpose, and in Christ's undertaking though not actually his till the ransom was paid for them. He declares that he died for the sheep, which, as appears from the context, were the elect given to him. (As @John Bauer mentioned in a previous post.) But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. John 10:26.

 

[Carbon]

The persons for whom the atonement is offered are called his people - a name which indicates that "they were already Christ's in the divine purpose." She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.” Matt 1:21.

If he saves his people, they were his by divine gift already.

 

[Carbon]

They are called the children of God scattered abroad. - And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad. John 11:52.

 

[Carbon]

They are called by the Lord, his friends, for whom he laid down his life in the exercise of a special love: Greater love has no one than this, that a person will lay down his life for his friends. John 15:13.

Unquestionably, the emphasis falls on the special love which he cherishes toward his people, here termed his friends.

 

[Carbon]

Considering these previous posts and what the Lord has said about the atonement, his people, his friends, the objects of his love, etc...

Think of what the Arminians teach on the atonement.
They teach that Christ's death only renders reconciliation possible, and gives God a right to make a new covenant, of which this shall be the tenor: that Christ will give eternal life to all that obey him, and persevere to the end.

The semi-legality of this opinion is on the surface.

It throws men back upon themselves and upon their own resources.
The theory of universal grace (Amyraldist) differs in some respects from Arminianism. It sets forth that God, moved by a certain love for fallen man, appointed Christ as a mediator for all and every one, and that by this means all barriers on the side of divine justice have been removed.
It propounds the theory of salvation made possible, but adds a condition that transfers the application to the sovereign will of God: it is for all if they believe. This, it is obvious, entirely alters the nature of the atonement.
The theory sets forth that Christ, according to his own intention and his Father's purpose, died for all and everyone; that a salvation was procured for all but not applied to all. The atonement, though not actually securing redemption or faith, in the way of casual connection, rendered it possible to bestow salvation on any whom the divine good pleasure might select, and to form a new covenant of grace with mankind in general.

 

[Carbon]

Considering these previous posts and what the Lord has said about the atonement, his people, his friends, the objects of his love, etc...

Think of what the Arminians teach on the atonement.
They teach that Christ's death only renders reconciliation possible, and gives God a right to make a new covenant, of which this shall be the tenor: that Christ will give eternal life to all that obey him, and persevere to the end.

The semi-legality of this opinion is on the surface.

It throws men back upon themselves and upon their own resources.
The theory of universal grace (Amyraldist) differs in some respects from Arminianism. It sets forth that God, moved by a certain love for fallen man, appointed Christ as a mediator for all and every one, and that by this means all barriers on the side of divine justice have been removed.
It propounds the theory of salvation made possible, but adds a condition that transfers the application to the sovereign will of God: it is for all if they believe. This, it is obvious, entirely alters the nature of the atonement.
The theory sets forth that Christ, according to his own intention and his Father's purpose, died for all and everyone; that a salvation was procured for all but not applied to all. The atonement, though not actually securing redemption or faith, in the way of casual connection, rendered it possible to bestow salvation on any whom the divine good pleasure might select, and to form a new covenant of grace with mankind in general.

All these various theories go to pieces when we bring out from the words of Christ the true nature of the atonement; for in reality, as we have already remarked, it is more a question as to the character of the atonement, as an actual transaction, than as to its extent. Whether we look at the covenant, which lies at its foundation, or at the fact that the purchase and application of the atonement are co-extensive and necessarily connected with each other, or at the nature of Christ's intersession, we are left in no doubt as to its extent.

George Smeaton

 

[Hazelelponi]

Our bloodline is the decree - born in the pactum salutis before time, bnei Eloheinu, and redeemed by the Son.

May God forever be praised. Amen.

 

[John Bauer]

Our bloodline is the decree - born in the pactum salutis before time, bnei Eloheinu, and redeemed by the Son.

May God forever be praised. Amen.

In other words, "Our spiritual lineage derives from God's eternal decree; we were birthed from the intratrinitarian covenant of redemption before creation, are counted as God’s children, and have been purchased by Christ."

Compressed into 25 words, Hazel managed to blend (a) covenant-of-redemption doctrine, (b) Hebraic filial language, and (b) doxology—all while maintaining cadence and internal parallelism. That is a rare hat-trick even for people who write theology for a living.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Compressed into 25 words, Hazel managed to blend (a) covenant-of-redemption doctrine, (b) Hebraic filial language, and (b) doxology—all while maintaining cadence and internal parallelism. That is a rare hat-trick even for people who write theology for a living.

Thank you for the compliment but I just thought of it that way is all This seemed to be what @Carbon was saying. It's what I heard anyway and found it beautiful.

I like hearing you all teach God's Word, may God bless all of you.

 

[makesends]

Do the Lord Jesus' sayings assign a special reference to his redemptive work?
What is the extent of the Atonement according to Jesus?


To start with, to those whom he atoned for, he calls them many.
Jesus speaks of those for whom his blood was shed, and who were the objects of his redemption work.
For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. Matt 26:28
just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.” Matt 20:28

"Many" implies "not all".

 

[Carbon]

All these various theories go to pieces when we bring out from the words of Christ the true nature of the atonement; for in reality, as we have already remarked, it is more a question as to the character of the atonement, as an actual transaction, than as to its extent. Whether we look at the covenant, which lies at its foundation, or at the fact that the purchase and application of the atonement are co-extensive and necessarily connected with each other, or at the nature of Christ's intersession, we are left in no doubt as to its extent.

George Smeaton

Christ's intercession is based on the atonement. And could have no validity or ground, but as it referred to that finished work of expiation, which does not need to be repeated.

We can see by Jesus' words that the intercession is not for the world, but for those whom the Father has given him. I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. John 17:9.
This decides upon the scope and destination of the atonement.

Think on this for a minute about John 17:9. Why would Jesus die for the whole world, but not pray for the whole world?

 

[Carbon]

Christ's intercession is based on the atonement. And could have no validity or ground, but as it referred to that finished work of expiation, which does not need to be repeated.

We can see by Jesus' words that the intercession is not for the world, but for those whom the Father has given him. I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. John 17:9.
This decides upon the scope and destination of the atonement.

Think on this for a minute about John 17:9. Why would Jesus die for the whole world, but not pray for the whole world?

Isn't Jesus also described as loving his own who were in the world?
Yes.
Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end. John 13:1. Which cannot be affirmed of all and every man without distinction.

And we need to recall only such phrases as co-suffering,
Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; 1 Peter 4:1.

Or how about co-crucifiction, I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. Galatians 2:20.

Or,
Co-dying, Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, Romans 6:8.

 

[Carbon]

Of course, wherever this discussion arises, there are always those who attack the atonement. There are always those who deny scripture. Unfortunately, in our churches today, even the PSA is denied. Many claim, to agree with such a doctrine is nothing but cosmic child abuse. They deny that the Father had forsaken Christ at the cross and poured His wrath upon him.

But when we read Jesus's words, what he said when he rose again, it is quite different.
44Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46and He said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, 47and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem. 48“You are witnesses of these things. Luke 24.

 

[Carbon]

Consider Psalm 22.

The Messiah alone is the speaker throughout this entire Psalm is evident if you consider and examine the contents.

Though David, the one who penned it, was subject to many trials, and though much in his life may have been the occasion that suggested the writing of the Psalm, it is evident that throughout the whole course of thought it brings before us the fortunes of one person which is not David, but, the Messiah.

There is much suffering that was unknown to David in this Psalm. For example,
When was David so deserted as to be a worm and so recklessly trodden underfoot? When were David's garments parted among men, and lots cast for his clothing? When did they sarcastically despise him as a pretender or would-be deliverer of the people? When did they pierce his hands and feet, nailing him to a cross?

 

[Hazelelponi]

Consider Psalm 22.

The Messiah alone is the speaker throughout this entire Psalm is evident if you consider and examine the contents.

Though David, the one who penned it, was subject to many trials, and though much in his life may have been the occasion that suggested the writing of the Psalm, it is evident that throughout the whole course of thought it brings before us the fortunes of one person which is not David, but, the Messiah.

There is much suffering that was unknown to David in this Psalm. For example,
When was David so deserted as to be a worm and so recklessly trodden underfoot? When were David's garments parted among men, and lots cast for his clothing? When did they sarcastically despise him as a pretender or would-be deliverer of the people? When did they pierce his hands and feet, nai

Brother, would you say the atonement is linchpin as doctrine, a key point of belief that must be understood?

I have always felt like the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ were the most important, and spending Ressurection Week (or two) here having discussions with all of you in @atpollard's thread while I spent a copious amount of time crying I felt like I grew in the knowledge and understanding of God some more too.

Is this the most important thing for people truly understand?

 

[Hazelelponi]

...