Romans 11:26a.... And so all Israel will be saved.

[EarlyActs]

I looked it up in a Greek concordance

copy it out what it said for me. Shouldn't take long.

A concordance is a tool for finding the word choice when we are not transliterating (often done with an interlinear). That means we are now 2 steps removed from the context, 1st bc we are in another language than the original, and 2nd because we are not at least seeing original word choices in our familiar Roman letters.

My ex:
In the beginning, God created the shama and eretz, Gen 1:1.

Then in v16, God placed the sun and moon in the shama as marker lights for the day and night etc. And also made the kavov.

This is partial transliteration; the key words for some astronomical objects have been converted from Hebrew to how that Hebrew stem looks in Roman letters.

If you put the sun and moon in a realm, it is obviously not the distant stars. But then v16 mentions the kavov (the stars) and the nearest reference that defines this is the vast 'cloud' of objects seen at night that were a comparison in ch 15 for the coming number of seed of Abraham. The kavov could never fit inside the shama!

Therefore, Gen 1 is only about our local objects (and those that move enough to form new 'messages' in the night sky, v15). This is consistent with the Job-Psalms-Isaiah references to a 'spreading out' event which would have been some time earlier, and rather random, compared to the verb used set up our local system.

Our earlier question was the definition of the term 'Israel.' A verb like 'to struggle/wrestle' is an unlikely term to translate as 'to be a prince.' It could be that in rare usage if a sense of 'winning/prevailing' was there. But who prevailed in the narrative where the term first shows? He wrestled with God.

Here are the technical notes from the NET:

1. Genesis 32:28 sn The name Israel is a common construction, using a verb with a theophoric element (אֵל, ʾel) that usually indicates the subject of the verb. Here it means “God fights.” This name will replace the name Jacob; it will be both a promise and a call for faith. In essence, the Lord was saying that Jacob would have victory and receive the promises because God would fight for him.
2. Genesis 32:28 sn You have fought. The explanation of the name Israel includes a sound play. In Hebrew the verb translated “you have fought” (שָׂרִיתָ, sarita) sounds like the name “Israel” (יִשְׂרָאֵל, yisraʾel), meaning “God fights” (although some interpret the meaning as “he fights [with] God”). The name would evoke the memory of the fight and what it meant. A. Dillmann says that ever after this the name would tell the Israelites that, when Jacob contended successfully with God, he won the battle with man (Genesis, 2:279). To be successful with God meant that he had to be crippled in his own self-sufficiency (A. P. Ross, “Jacob at the Jabboq, Israel at Peniel,” BSac 142 [1985]: 51-62).

 

[brightfame52]

copy it out what it said for me. Shouldn't take long.

Already have

 

[EarlyActs]

The short ABS dictionary for the Greek term 'Israel' is that it is Israel, in English. This dictionary is at the back of the ABS Greek New Testament, the most used Greek NT in the late 1900s.

The 1000 page B-A-G Lexicon for the Greek term 'Israel' has
1, the descendants of Israel, the house of Israel
2, the nation of Israel, the tribes of Israel
3, the figurative sense that Christians are the true Israel rather than Israel in the physical sense
p382

There is no reference at all in the entries (about 50 written locations cited in a quarter of a page) that contain the word prince.

I don't think you realize what you are handling, and no one without experience in language should be deciding what the term means. I have 7 years in advanced usage; 2 as a college TA, 1 at master's level, and 1 year of translating Josephus JEWISH WAR.

 

[brightfame52]

The short ABS dictionary for the Greek term 'Israel' is that it is Israel, in English. This dictionary is at the back of the ABS Greek New Testament, the most used Greek NT in the late 1900s.

The 1000 page B-A-G Lexicon for the Greek term 'Israel' has
1, the descendants of Israel, the house of Israel
2, the nation of Israel, the tribes of Israel
3, the figurative sense that Christians are the true Israel rather than Israel in the physical sense
p382

There is no reference at all in the entries (about 50 written locations cited in a quarter of a page) that contain the word prince.

I don't think you realize what you are handling, and no one without experience in language should be deciding what the term means. I have 7 years in advanced usage; 2 as a college TA, 1 at master's level, and 1 year of translating Josephus JEWISH WAR.

I looked it up in a plain lexicon for greek and hebrew

 

[EarlyActs]

I looked it up in a plain lexicon for greek and hebrew

Which one you see, a lexicon is meant to cite exact usages across all literature. So it is only as good as its citations. Which location used the meaning 'prince' and what is in the context to support it? Was it perhaps referring to an angel for Israel which is sometimes called a prince?

The B-A-G has some 50 citations in a quarter of a page, and none mention prince.

Compare how modern countries refer to others but in their own language:
A French person would call the US "Etats Unis"
A German would call the US "Anglaterra"

The idea of using another language is not to change its meaning.

 

[Paul]

If any are to be saved it will be the same way we were. Through Christ as in they will become members of the body of Christ.

This suggests that those these signs are given as the whole world looks on the veil is lifted and many of those in Jerusalem/Israel who mistakenly proclaimed God was their Father apart from Christ finally believe and come into the faith at the time of the end.

Rev 11
At that very hour there was a severe earthquake and a tenth of the city collapsed. Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the survivors were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.
We know the Kingdom will be restored to Israel and the kingdoms of the nations of the whole world will become the Kingdom Of God and His Christ.

Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”

7He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.

 

[brightfame52]

The Church is Israel, because as Israel of old, they are called Israel Gal 6:16

And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Rom 9:6

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

They, the Church is called The Children of Abraham or Seed of Abraham Gal 3:29

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Gal 3:7

Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

The Children of God Rom 8:16

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Gal 3:26

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

The children of promise Rom 9:8

That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Gal 4:28

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

The seed Rom 4:16

Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Gal 3:29

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.11

 

[brightfame52]

We know the Church, the Body of Christ and Israel , not israel the physical nation, but Israel after the Spirit are the same, because Christ acted as High Priest for her, when He gave Himself a Sacrifice unto God. Writing to the Church Paul writes Eph 5:2, 25

2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Now writing the Hebrews its written Heb 9:26

For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Heb 10:12

But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

We know in Hebrews Jesus Christ sacrifice comes out of His Person and Office as High Priest, not a physical high priest as according to the law of levi, but a Spiritual High Priest according to Melchizadec and a endless life

Heb 2:17

Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

So the High Priest sacrifice unto God for the people are the same as in Eph 5:2

2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

And as in Heb 9:26

26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Hes the same offering as in Eph 5:2 for the Church

2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

As He is unto the Hebrew Believers Heb 10:10,14

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

All three references use the same greek word for offering prosphora:

the act of offering, a bringing to
that which is offered, a gift, a present. In the NT a sacrifice, whether bloody or not: offering for sin, expiatory offering

So Christ is the Spiritual High Priest for the Church, His Body, which is none other than Israel Spiritual, whom He gave Himself an Offering unto God , a sweetsmelling Savour !

 

[EarlyActs]

We know the Church, the Body of Christ and Israel , not israel the physical nation, but Israel after the Spirit are the same, because Christ acted as High Priest for her, when He gave Himself a Sacrifice unto God. Writing to the Church Paul writes Eph 5:2, 25

2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Now writing the Hebrews its written Heb 9:26

For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Heb 10:12

But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

We know in Hebrews Jesus Christ sacrifice comes out of His Person and Office as High Priest, not a physical high priest as according to the law of levi, but a Spiritual High Priest according to Melchizadec and a endless life

Heb 2:17

Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

So the High Priest sacrifice unto God for the people are the same as in Eph 5:2

2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

And as in Heb 9:26

26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Hes the same offering as in Eph 5:2 for the Church

2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

As He is unto the Hebrew Believers Heb 10:10,14

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

All three references use the same greek word for offering prosphora:

the act of offering, a bringing to
that which is offered, a gift, a present. In the NT a sacrifice, whether bloody or not: offering for sin, expiatory offering

So Christ is the Spiritual High Priest for the Church, His Body, which is none other than Israel Spiritual, whom He gave Himself an Offering unto God , a sweetsmelling Savour !

Yes it runs so thick there, I don't know how people miss the fact that it is the reality for which the Law/Judaism was only a rough shadow.

 

[brightfame52]

The Church is Israel[Not National Israel], the Spiritual Kingdom of God, and we know this by many promises made to Israel in the OT times find its ultimate fulfillment in the NT Gospel dispensation,for instance, when Paul wrote to a gentile city church assembly, Corinth, designating them Saints 1 Cor 1:2

2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

The word saints here is the greek word hagios:

set apart by (or for) God, holy, sacred.

They were a people set apart from the world, and when writing his second epistle to them, he applied OT promises made to Israel , he applied to them 2 Cor 6:14-18

14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.11

 

[brightfame52]

The Church is Israel because, Christ the Head of His Body the Church, is also likewise the Mediator of the New Covenant which only the blessings of are promised to Israel. Christ is the Head of the Church Eph 5:23

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

This same Christ is the mediator of the New Covenant/Testament Heb 12:24

And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

1 Tim 2:5

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

The Body of People which benefit from their interest in the New Covenant Promises through the Mediator is Israel Heb 8:6-13

6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

 

[brightfame52]

We know that the Church under the NT is the fulfillment of Israel from the OT, because Jesus Christ is their High Priest at the Right Hand of God. Now the writer of the Book of Hebrews, writing to the elect remnant of jews in the early church, writes that Christ as the New Covenant Mediator, the Mediator of the New Covenant, which was promised to the House of Israel, that He has fulfilled many of those promises by His Death, and is now at the right Hand of God ! Heb 8:6

But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Heb 12:24

And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Heb 8:1

Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

Is not this the same Jesus at the right hand of God as per Paul writing to the gentile church in rome ? Rom 8:34

Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Isnt He there making Intercession for the saints Rom 1:7

To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Rom 8:27

And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Isnt it therefore the same people being spoken of in the Hebrews letter Heb 7:25

Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Is there a dichtomy in Jesus being at the right hand of God for two different people, the Church, then ethnic jews ? Is He seperating His Intercession activity, interceding for the Church on the right, and ethnic jews on the left ?

God forbid ! They are all one people, the Israel of God ! 12

 

[brightfame52]

Paul writing to a gentile church in Colossi writes to them Col 3:1

If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

In Vs 12 he calls them the elect of God 12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

 

[brightfame52]

The Church of Christ, His Body and Israel are the same because, the Gentiles that are now called under the NC times initiated by the Death of Christ Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament/covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

That they are joint partakers of the New Covenant Promises, which are Gospel Promises, made to the House of Israel and Judah Jer 31:31

Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Gentiles were secretly included in this New Covenant Gospel promises, which Paul clarified here Eph 3:1-6

For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

The Gospel is a publication of what God has guaranteed in covenant to His Chosen people.