So it wasn't really faith at all but the Holy Spirit upon them. Faith by definition is internal. Soon as the Holy Spirit departed so did their faith? There were times indeed, when the Holy Spirit was said to come upon certain people to equip them for special purposes, such as in designing and building the things of the temple. Skills iow. And there were times when the Holy Spirit came upon a person or group of people for a time to do a particular thing. Never is it said to come upon anyone FOR faith that saves. Faith that saves is an internal work of God on the very position of a person, the condition of their heart. That internal work of God is regeneration/new birth. (P.S. Not even the dispensationlist MacArthur who you have often quoted and posted his videos, holds the view of regeneration and born again as you do, but the same one that has been presented here by the Reformed.) I figured that is where you were getting all this from so I checked. Along with this new birth/regeneration comes faith and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Please address what I have said here without simply repeating your position. Address my words!
Yes, I know I'm at odds with the consensus. Macarthur traditionally doesn't believe what I'm saying. In a few recent youtube videos, I noticed that he's become careful in how he words it now. That tells me he's allowing for the possibility, but not convinced. I could be wrong, but he doesn't outwardly say that a man must be born again to come to faith. But he will say that it's God who brings a person to faith.
Everything that you said above is built off of the assumption that I put in bold from your quote.
We went over this stuff already. Keep in mind, I use the term primate regeneration, but my meaning is that it's from God. To put it in your language. I don't mean to suggest that a person is partially born again.What I don't remember is anytime in the OT where it said that the OT saints were partially regenerated but were not born again. There is a reason why it never used either expression, regenerated or born again, in the OT. Because it would have made no sense at the time to the people who were receiving the Law and Prophets. The Prophets on another occasion did allude to it as pertaining to Messiah when it speaks of God putting a new heart in his people. It looks back specifically on the fall and our enmity with God, our inability to be any other way than the way we are, and looks forward to God himself recreating us, as it were, (a new creation in Christ). The fact that it never mentions directly a regeneration or a new birth does not warrant a leap to the conclusion than no one in the OT was reborn, and reborn in Christ.
Look at the passage that Carbon quoted. Is this born again? I believe it was offered as proof for that exact thing. You offered like passages from the same book. Maybe the exact same one. It's a future promise. As I told Carbon, I believe that it was fulfilled at Pentecost.
Ezekiel 36.
26 Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put My Spirit within you and bring it about that you walk in My statutes, and are careful and follow My ordinances.
John 16: 12-14 I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.[/B]
Remember this: The Covenant of Redemption was between Father, Son, and Holy Spirit BEFORE creation.[/B]
The temporal argument is an atheists argument. It has no weight in overturning anything time sensitive in the Bible. [/B]
As to the curtain being torn down. That is of course an allusion to the curtain that separated the Holy Place from the most Holy Place. A place where the people could not go, The representative of the very throne of God---going directly to him. Only the High Priest could go there, and only once a year, to perform the sacrifices commanded to cover the sins of the people. That splitting open of the curtain when Jesus died, was representative of both the wall between Jew and Gentile being torn down, and even more, of opening personal access to all who have been cleansed by the blood of Jesus to come boldly before his throne of grace to receive grace and mercy, in our time of need. (Which is always.) It had nothing to do directly with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.[/B]
1 Corinthians 6: Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?
John 7:39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
John 14:16-18 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever- the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.[/B]