From another thread,
I asked
@Josheb this question:
Because of his answer, I have to ask him.
Do we start in the Spirit and end in the flesh?
Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Gal 3:3.
13 for if you are living in accord with the flesh, you are going to die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:13.
Hmmmm..... I'm inclined to read this inquiry as disingenuous because 1) you and I have discussed this question at great length and 2) you wrote
an op on the post-conversion synergism of sanctification, and
an op about a book presenting multiple views of sanctification (two of which are Reformed views),
two ops, in fact. I have posted many of the verses where scripture explicitly places the collaborative causality of sanctification in the work of the already-regenerate, and in that op surveying Reformed thinkers quotes from several noted Calvinist theologians arguing the same were posted. I have commended that op multiple times in this forum. For anyone believing the scriptures posted exactly as written, those other ops are unnecessary. The conclusion to at the end of that op is "
And if all this is confusing, you can simply say: we work out our sanctification as God works in us [
Phil. 2:12]
. Those are the two truths we must protect: the gift of God in sanctification and the activity of man." which is exactly what I had previously presented. I, therefore, find it curious my
correct position wasn't acknowledged then, isn't presented in this op, and my handle is now being exploited as if the shared position wasn't already known before the question asked in this op was posted.
So please remove my handle from this op. The mention of my handle is unnecessary and the "I must ask..." is disingenuous. An acceptable alternative would be something like adding a statement saying, "
In previous threads, Josh has said sanctification necessarily involves our effort after conversion because the Holy Spirit empowers us to be collaborative agents rather than hostile ones. That change is part of the sanctifying process. Faith begets faithfulness."
That being said.....
My answer to the question this opening post asks is the same: God works in us so that we work to do God's will via His power and not that of our flesh. That work, His will, includes but is not limited to the cleaning up of our lives, the restoring of us to what we had originally been made to be, our transformation, and eventual salvation. The answer to the question asked is that the question is a bad question because it insinuates I might say we can finish in our flesh when everyone here knows I have never said any such thing and vigorously argued against that position countless times. There is also the risk that less-informed Christians will erroneously think there are only on or two options when the fact of whole scripture is that the slave of righteousness is also a servant and an adopted son/daughter privileged with all the blessings, power, and authority of the Son such that s/he is no longer at enmity with the Creator and can and will act in faithfulness and obedience through the gift of faith and influence and power of the incarnate Christ who is still alive, the written word that is living and active, and the Holy Spirit who guides, teaches, inspires, directs and the three combined do a host of things making us willing, active, collaborative agents with God as HE works His salvation in us. The premise post-regeneration sanctification is ONLY God or ONLY the creature is a false dichotomy, and one directly contradicting the ops above to which everyone has now been linked.
The verse quoted in the op (Rom. 8:13) plainly states, "
you" are putting to death the deeds of the body. That is what it states. How do we do that? By the Spirit. That verse does NOT say, "...
but if by the Spirit the Spirit puts to death the deeds of the body..." and any suggestion that's how it should be read perverts the text. There's not an orthodox Calvinist here who thinks we're robots or puppets and every single one of us has defended against that wretched falsehood, that mockery of monergism. The uniform answer to the
rhetorical question Paul asks in Galatians 3:3 is an unequivocal "
NO!"
No! we are NOT being perfected by the flesh.
Any insinuation I might answer in any way contrary to scripture should be discarded. The point presumably wanting to be made by this op can be made without mentioning any member of CCAM.
Philippians 2:12-13
So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
Where we had once been hostile to God, objects of wrath, futile in our thinking, given over to our lusts, unable to understand the things of the Spirit, and every desire was one solely of the flesh, the work of the Holy Spirit reconciles us to God, makes us alive in our thinking, give use the mind of Christ, circumcises the heart and changes it from stone to flesh, seals us with adoption such that the gift of faith begets faithfulness. The regenerate's dependence on the Spirit is inescapable. God works in us. We then will and work for His good pleasure and those two conditions persist until one day we are raised incorruptible and immortal from the grave. The work of God and the work of His sons/daughters are not mutually exclusive conditions. We are wholly dependent on Him, and we work by and for His good purpose as He works in us to do so.
It is impossible for the unregenerate to do ANY of this.
These things are easily understood when scripture is read as written.
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