Questions for Amillennialism

[Josheb]

You can read it in the Old Testament. There are quite a few prophecies that deal with the messianic kingdom. The sign of the old people walking without using canes is a big deal. We aren't talking about middle age, or even what we call senior citizens. We are talking OLD, you know, like Methusaleh old. There will be prolonged life as there was in the beginning, and people won't grow weak as they do now. Sin has been sealed away, as well as Satan. Satan is not out deceiving the nations into wars.

That is not an answer to the question asked. Where in the Old Testament does it state there will be no wars, rumors of wars, no diseases, no starvation, in the messianic age?

There are quite a few prophecies that deal with the messianic kingdom.

Whatever the Old Testament states cannot be construed to contradict the following....

Mark 1:15 ESV
“The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”

The Jews in Jesus' day expected the kingdom to look much different. They expected the promised Messiah to overthrow their occupiers and take Herod out of the throne and seat himself there. The kingdom they imagined was not what God had ever planned. When God promised to seat someone on David's throne God was speaking about the resurrection. The mistaken hope of first century Jews was understandable because they lacked later revelation, but the fact is those of us living after the New Testament do have the newer revelation that explains what God meant when he made the promises of the messianic kingdom. Modern futurists simply update the first century Jewish futurists and look for the fulfillment of promises that, according to Jesus, are already fulfilled. Futurists have a tough time with "near" and "at hand." Their expectations, like those of the first century Jew, are grounded in temporal, earthly change and they let the newscast, not scripture alone, influence their expectations.

John 18:36 ESV
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world."

A physical kingdom would be of this world.

Luke 17:21 ESV
The kingdom of God is not coming in ways that can be observed, nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.”

Every time some futurist says something in the latest newscast is a sign of the soon coming kingdom they contradict this verse.

Romans 14:16-17
Therefore, do not let what is for you a good thing be spoken of as evil; for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

The implication being the saints in Rome could participate in the kingdom of God if they'd stop judging one another and practice righteousness, peace, and joy in the Spirit.

Luke 10:8-9
“Whatever city you enter and they receive you, eat what is set before you; and heal those in it who are sick, and say to them, ‘The kingdom of God has come near to you.’"

Matthew 12:28
But if I cast out the demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

The miracles Jesus and the disciples perfumed were not signs the kingdom was coming. They were proof it had arrived.

John 3:3,5
Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.... Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

It is not possible to see a kingdom that does not exist. Logic, therefore, dictates either the kingdom has come and people do see it because they are genuinely born anew from above, or Jesus was placating Nicodemus because no one born again in the first century would see anything because the messianic kingdom wouldn't be coming for at least another twenty centuries.

Matthew 13:47-50 ESV
Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was thrown into the sea and gathered fish of every kind. When it was full, men drew it ashore and sat down and sorted the good into containers but threw away the bad. So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

1 Corinthians 1:11
Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.

If the ends of the ages had come, as Paul stated, then the gathering has occurred!!! If it has occurred then it did not look anything like what the Jews expected, and it does not look anything like what modern futurists (and many other Christians) expect.

Colossians 1:9-14
9For this reason also, since the day we heard of it, we have not ceased to pray for you and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, 10so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; 11strengthened with all power, according to His glorious might, for the attaining of all steadfastness and patience; joyously 12giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of the saints in Light. 13For He rescued us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, 14in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Those God has rescued have been transferred from one kingdom to another, from the domain of darkness to the kingdom of Christ, the messianic kingdom. That may not fit modern futurists' expectations but that is, nonetheless, what scripture actually, factually states.


Scripture does not have Jesus physically returning to the earth until after the millennium, after the first heaven and earth pass away and the new heaven and earth have come.

 

[JesusFan]

I have already addressed that claim. You have not addressed that response. What you did was repeat an already-posted, and already-addressed assertion. Please address the fact the thousand-year reign ends with a war of rebellion, and please address that fact without further delay or obfuscation.

"No more war weapons turned into plough shares" refers to the iconic biblical prophecy from Isaiah 2:4 and Micah 4:3, symbolizing a future era of world peace where tools of violence are converted into agricultural implements. This vision represents a complete, divine cessation of warfare and a return to productivity, often cited as a ultimate goal of peace movements.

 

[Arial]

"No more war weapons turned into plough shares" refers to the iconic biblical prophecy from Isaiah 2:4 and Micah 4:3, symbolizing a future era of world peace where tools of violence are converted into agricultural implements. This vision represents a complete, divine cessation of warfare and a return to productivity, often cited as a ultimate goal of peace movements.

Obviously. How does that demonstrate a thousand-year earthly reign of Christ in Jerusalem? Isn't that what we see in IS. 11 and Rev 21? And Rev 21 specifically identifies it with the second coming.

 

[JesusFan]

Obviously. How does that demonstrate a thousand-year earthly reign of Christ in Jerusalem? Isn't that what we see in IS. 11 and Rev 21? And Rev 21 specifically identifies it with the second coming.

Why does the Messianic rule have to be out of Jerusalem and israel only though, as would not the messianic Reign be the Kingdom over entire earth?

 

[Arial]

Why does the Messianic rule have to be out of Jerusalem and israel only though, as would not the messianic Reign be the Kingdom over entire earth?

Is it not your claim that the thousand-year reign of Jesus in Israel and the restored boundaries of Israel is the Messianic kingdom?

 

[Marty]

You can read it in the Old Testament. There are quite a few prophecies that deal with the messianic kingdom. The sign of the old people walking without using canes is a big deal. We aren't talking about middle age, or even what we call senior citizens. We are talking OLD, you know, like Methusaleh old. There will be prolonged life as there was in the beginning, and people won't grow weak as they do now. Sin has been sealed away, as well as Satan. Satan is not out deceiving the nations into wars.

Matthew 11
2When John, who was in prison, heard about the deeds of the Messiah, he sent his disciples 3to ask him, “Are you the one who is to come, or should we expect someone else?”

After John the baptist confessed that Jesus was the Lamb of God it seemed that he didn't think that the Messiahs coming looked like he thought that it would look like, so he sent his disciples to ask if Jesus was the Messiah. Jesus then quoted Isaiah chapter 35, which is Isaiah describing the Messianic reign. thus, Jesus was saying that the Messianic reign was the same as the first advent.

Matthew 11
4Jesus replied, “Go back and report to John what you hear and see: 5The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is proclaimed to the poor. 6Blessed is anyone who does not stumble on account of me.”

 

[Arial]

There will be prolonged life as there was in the beginning, and people won't grow weak as they do now.

Jesus didn't promise prolonged life. He promsed eternal life.

 

[JesusFan]

Jesus didn't promise prolonged life. He promsed eternal life.

Except those who went into the Kingdom messianic Age were survivors of the great tribulation , and not glorified human beings yet

 

[JesusFan]

Is it not your claim that the thousand-year reign of Jesus in Israel and the restored boundaries of Israel is the Messianic kingdom?

his messianic Age will be over whole Earth, and nations shall dome up to Jerusalem at that time to pay Him homage

 

[Arial]

Except those who went into the Kingdom messianic Age were survivors of the great tribulation , and not glorified human beings yet

?????