Question for Arminians and Calvinists on foreknowledge

[Carbon]

Which verse(s) or passages destroy the Arminian understanding of "foreknowledge?" Which is that God looked through the corridors of time and saw who would believe and these He elected.

They are there.

 

[Carbon]

The first one i'll put out there as a destroyer of the Arminian belief of foreknowledge is -

though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— Romans 9:11.

 

[CrowCross]

The first one i'll put out there as a destroyer of the Arminian belief of foreknowledge is -

though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— Romans 9:11.

Looking down the corridor of time hints strongly at your works as being Gods decision to save. Romans 9 above just said....not works.

 

[David1701]

Which verse(s) or passages destroy the Arminian understanding of "foreknowledge?" Which is that God looked through the corridors of time and saw who would believe and these He elected.

They are there.

Another thing that destroys the Arminian misunderstanding of "foreknowledge", when referring to people, is that the Greek simply does not mean what they want it to mean.

Foreknow (proginosko)

BDAG:
προγινώσκω

1. to know beforehand or in advance, have foreknowledge (of) τί someth.
Hs 7:5. Abs., in advance 2 Pt 3:17.

2. choose beforehand τινά someone Ro 8:29., 11:2, Pass. of Christ προεγνωσμένος πρὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου 1 Pt 1:20.—Know from time past προγινώσκοντές με ἄνωθεν Ac 26:5.

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As we can see, when referring to people, "proginosko" (to foreknow) means to choose beforehand.

 

[360watt]

The book of John has believing on the Lord Jesus Christ to receive eternal life.

This is under conviction of the Holy Spirit.. responding to conviction on the soul.

God knows who will believe, but that doesn't mean He chose them regardless of whether they believe in Him or not.

I might know, if I was a father..my child is going to hurt themselves practicing sewing. That doesn't mean I am directing their fingers.

A manager might set up a business a certain way for employees to join.. and knows some might fail...or knows some will do well.. doesn't mean he is directing their behaviour.

 

[fastfredy0]

Which verse(s) or passages destroy the Arminian understanding of "foreknowledge?" Which is that God looked through the corridors of time and saw who would believe and these He elected.

• Romans 8:29-30 “For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called.”
• 1 Peter 1:2 “Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father.”
• 2 Timothy 2:19 "The Lord knows them that are his"
• Jeremiah 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

"destroys" might be a strong words as the Arminians have read the verses and are not destroyed (giggle)

 

[360watt]

There are many Christians who are neither Calvinist nor Arminian.

Biblicists

 

[Bob Carabbio]

There are many Christians who are neither Calvinist nor Arminian.

Biblicists

BINGO!!! Arminianism, Calvinism, and many other "Isms" are nothing more that "Theological constructs" - "Systematics", supposedly accurate to what the Bible teaches. All God's Chilluns gots "Theologies" - AND NONE OF THEM have any effect on the salvation of a person, since that happens in a personal Exchange between the individual and the Holy Spirit.

THEN there's a lifetime to be propagandized by one "religious paradigm" or another, and HOPEFULLY first to get familiar with what the Bible says as a foundation. Since I'm an "Eclectic", I don't have to bother defending one "Systematic" against all others.

 

[fastfredy0]

All God's Chilluns gots "Theologies" - AND NONE OF THEM have any effect on the salvation of a person

Circular logic ...
All God's children are saved and therefore their theology doesn't affect that they are saved.

 

[civic]

All God's children are saved and therefore their theology doesn't affect that they are saved.

And don't think any believer would argue against that premise. No one has their theology 100 % correct.

 

[fastfredy0]

No one has their theology 100 % correct.

Agreed ... and yet no one knows of any part of their theology that is wrong.
It's good to strive for 100% ... ... we all get set in our ways.

 

[Carbon]

Circular logic ...
All God's children are saved and therefore their theology doesn't affect that they are saved.

He didn’t say children. He was talking about chilluns.

 

[fastfredy0]

He didn’t say children. He was talking about chilluns.

chillun
Plural form of chile
chĭl′ē

noun​

1. Child.
2. A chili pepper.

Well, now I am totally confused... .LOL ... doesn't matter ... probably early stage dementia ... or am I in later stages? I forget.

 

[Eleanor]

Another thing that destroys the Arminian misunderstanding of "foreknowledge", when referring to people, is that the Greek simply does not mean what they want it to mean.
Foreknow (proginosko)
BDAG:
προγινώσκω
1. to know beforehand or in advance, have foreknowledge (of) τί someth.
Hs 7:5. Abs., in advance 2 Pt 3:17.
2. choose beforehand τινά someone Ro 8:29., 11:2, Pass. of Christ προεγνωσμένος πρὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου 1 Pt 1:20.—Know from time past προγινώσκοντές με ἄνωθεν Ac 26:5.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As we can see, when referring to people, "proginosko" (to foreknow) means to choose beforehand.

The word used in relation to God's foreknowledge is prognosis (Ac 2:23, 1 Pe 1:2).

It is described in Ac 15:18: "Known to the Lord for ages is his work."

God's foreknowledge is of what he is going to do in the future, and he knows that simply because, before the foundations of the world, he decreed that he shallI do it.

 

[David1701]

The word used in relation to God's foreknowledge is prognosis (Ac 2:23, 1 Pe 1:2).

It is described in Ac 15:18: "Known to the Lord for ages is his work."

God's foreknowledge is of what he is going to do in the future, and he knows that simply because, before the foundations of the world, he decreed that he shallI do it.

Foreknowledge of events is what you have described; however, foreknowledge (note that the definition I gave was for the verb and you are referring to the noun) of people is choosing them beforehand.

 

[Eleanor]

Foreknowledge of events is what you have described; however, foreknowledge (note that the definition I gave was for the verb and you are referring to the noun) of people is choosing them beforehand.

The NT does not use foreknowledge (proginnosko) in that manner of God.

 

[David1701]

The NT does not use foreknowledge (proginnosko) in that manner of God.

The NT ALWAYS uses "foreknowledge" in that way, when referring to people. God's foreknowledge of people is his fore-choosing of them.

 

[Eleanor]

The NT ALWAYS uses "foreknowledge" in that way, when referring to people. God's foreknowledge of people is his fore-choosing of them.

My mistake. I meant:

The NT does not use prognosis (which relates only to God) in that way; i.e., knowing in advance what men are going to do and basing his decisions thereon.

 

[TibiasDad]

Which verse(s) or passages destroy the Arminian understanding of "foreknowledge?" Which is that God looked through the corridors of time and saw who would believe and these He elected.

They are there.

None, that’s why we believe what we do!


Doug

 

[Eleanor]

None, that’s why we believe what we do!


Doug

What do you make of Ro 9:10-13?