Purgatory is a Deadly Fiction

[donadams]

2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before thejudgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done inhis body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

 

[GoKart Mozart]

2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before thejudgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done inhis body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

1 Corinthians 3 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Does that passage describe purgation? If yes, to whom does it apply?

 

[donadams]

Yes all men!

Is the “promised land” a type of heaven?

Yes

Then the children of Israel in bondage down in Egypt must be a type of purgatory!

Thks

 

[Mr GLee]

Yes all men!

Is the “promised land” a type of heaven?

Yes

Then the children of Israel in bondage down in Egypt must be a type of purgatory!

Thks

You could say a kind of purgatory /sufferings (Living) let the dead bury there own dead

Why any kind of a purgatory other than the sufferings the daily pangs of hell here on earth, living in bodies of dying mankind?

Why the pretense that after one takes the last breath of oxygen nothing changes nothing . . . sufferings and wondering continues .

Was the grace of Christ labor of love sufficient to pay the full cost of salvation?

Is sufferings and wondering the real salvation. . being worked out by us to our own glory and we should get used to sufferings wondering ?

That does not sound like a gospel to me.

 

[donadams]

You could say a kind of purgatory /sufferings (Living) let the dead bury there own dead

Why any kind of a purgatory other than the sufferings the daily pangs of hell here on earth, living in bodies of dying mankind?

Why the pretense that after one takes the last breath of oxygen nothing changes nothing . . . sufferings and wondering continues .

Was the grace of Christ labor of love sufficient to pay the full cost of salvation?

Is sufferings and wondering the real salvation. . being worked out by us to our own glory and we should get used to sufferings wondering ?

That does not sound like a gospel to me.

Yes salvation and baptism washes away all sin, but we are not talking about sin or salvation or the forgiveness of sins that have been repented of But the temporal punishment due to them, justice of God that is offended must be satisfied

 

[Mr GLee]

Yes salvation and baptism washes away all sin, but we are not talking about sin or salvation or the forgiveness of sins that have been repented of But the temporal punishment due to them, justice of God that is offended must be satisfied

Temporal, how long.must one suffer in Limbo ?

 

[Josheb]

....justice of God that is offended must be satisfied

It was. Right there on Calvary. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God (2 Cor. 5:21).

Romans 3:21-26
But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

When Peter wrote about Jesus leading captives free Peter was referring to something the psalmist said,

Psalm 146:7
Who executes justice for the oppressed; who gives food to the hungry. The LORD sets the prisoners free.

Christ suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, it is is through him that we have access to God through His grace (not the works of purgatory). By the death of His Son God has reconciled to Himself and presented us as holy in His sight, without blemish and free from accusation (Col. 1:22). We have died with him, and we live in him (Rom. 6:8-10). Jesus was pierced for our transgressions, crushed for our iniquities, and that punishment brought us peace (Isa. 53:5).

The Roman Catholic Catechism Chapter III, Article 1030 states, "All who die in God’s grace, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven," but in Hebrews 10 and elsewhere we read the blood of Christ cleanses our consciences and washes away all sin, and 1 Corinthians 15 states the body is raised imperishable, incorruptible.

2 Peter 1:2-9
Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord; seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence. For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust. Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness, and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love. For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.





It's quite clear in the cases of the two apostles referenced in this post the apostles did not teach purgatory as a means of satisfying God's justice and offence. The Roman Catholic doctrine of purgatory contradicts Roman Catholicism, not only scripture. The reason the RCC contradicts itself on this occasion is because EVERYONE in Christendom - including the Roman Catholic Church - understands the finite can never reached the Infinite by finite works. It is logically impossible and contradictory. We cannot work off sin on this side of the grave. We cannot work off sin on the other side of the grave, either. And most definitely this satisfying the justice of God cannot be bought and sold. You have, in the space of nine words, completely undermined your entire presence in this thread. No one should follow any group of leaders, whether they be "apostolic church," or not when they contradict both scripture and reason.

 

[Mr GLee]

It's quite clear in the cases of the two apostles referenced in this post the apostles did not teach purgatory as a means of satisfying God's justice and offence. The Roman Catholic doctrine of purgatory contradicts Roman Catholicism, not only scripture. The reason the RCC contradicts itself on this occasion is because EVERYONE in Christendom - including the Roman Catholic Church - understands the finite can never reached the Infinite by finite works.

I would offer Catholiscim through the oral traditons; I heard it through the legion of father dying mankind grapevine, reigning with the queen mother of heaven.

They claim Infinite by false finite works . Teaching an entity called Mary alone had no need for sufferings in limbo or purgatory( same thing) .

One for the younger sinner (limbo) the other purgatory (for the more mature sinner ). Teaching She alone received the fullness of grace the whole cost of salvation. Eternal Queen Mother a traditons passed on from the unbelieving faithless Jews (Jerimiah 44) Male and female gods in the likeness of dying mankind today called "patron saints" (3500 and rising) waiting for the Popes approval. False prophets as false apostles making the word of God to no effect through the Queen mother of heaven .Called the strange woman in Proverbs . not the chaste virgin bride Christians.

The father of lies making her, named after our blessed sister in the Lord Mary, the invisible head and not our Holy Father. out of the picture .

The non-venerable pew warmers must worship a multitude of fathers (dying mankind) guided by what they call the Holy Queen Mother . It is said she visits' comforting those suffering, wondering in Limbo to include the Protestant's .

Taking away the sting of death the letter of the law death (sola scriptura) the writen authority.

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

In that way it would seem serving death a false infinite. Dying flesh giving birth to dying flesh

Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live

The born again spiritual seed (one) Christ the anointing Holy Spirit of God

Not the fleshly seeds as rosary beads of a Queen mother the hail (hellow) Marys . According to a source of faith of dying mankind a law of the fathers ,and not the one law of our one father in heaven. The invisible head Christ . Scripture is perfect sealed with 7 seals till the end of time no new revelations.

Satan the king of lying sign to wonder after his only voice today .

like the rosary came down from heaven or other idol images painting so on so forth. Therefore adding to the one Revaltion (sola scriptura)

The hello Mary's are repeated, each decade preceded by an Our Father. Like, ladies first go take a long nap Dad. I will make you breakfast when you get up. I would not want you starve to death .

God has no needs but as the Potter satisfies all that he desires .

 

[donadams]

It was. Right there on Calvary. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God (2 Cor. 5:21).

Romans 3:21-26
But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

When Peter wrote about Jesus leading captives free Peter was referring to something the psalmist said,

Psalm 146:7
Who executes justice for the oppressed; who gives food to the hungry. The LORD sets the prisoners free.

Christ suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, it is is through him that we have access to God through His grace (not the works of purgatory). By the death of His Son God has reconciled to Himself and presented us as holy in His sight, without blemish and free from accusation (Col. 1:22). We have died with him, and we live in him (Rom. 6:8-10). Jesus was pierced for our transgressions, crushed for our iniquities, and that punishment brought us peace (Isa. 53:5).

The Roman Catholic Catechism Chapter III, Article 1030 states, "All who die in God’s grace, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven," but in Hebrews 10 and elsewhere we read the blood of Christ cleanses our consciences and washes away all sin, and 1 Corinthians 15 states the body is raised imperishable, incorruptible.

2 Peter 1:2-9
Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord; seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence. For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust. Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness, and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love. For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.





It's quite clear in the cases of the two apostles referenced in this post the apostles did not teach purgatory as a means of satisfying God's justice and offence. The Roman Catholic doctrine of purgatory contradicts Roman Catholicism, not only scripture. The reason the RCC contradicts itself on this occasion is because EVERYONE in Christendom - including the Roman Catholic Church - understands the finite can never reached the Infinite by finite works. It is logically impossible and contradictory. We cannot work off sin on this side of the grave. We cannot work off sin on the other side of the grave, either. And most definitely this satisfying the justice of God cannot be bought and sold. You have, in the space of nine words, completely undermined your entire presence in this thread. No one should follow any group of leaders, whether they be "apostolic church," or not when they contradict both scripture and reason.

We are referring to sins committed after baptism that have been repented and confessed and received God’s mercy thru christ

 

[Mr GLee]

We are referring to sins committed after baptism that have been repented and confessed and received God’s mercy thru christ

Then though the hands of dying mankind as a law of the fathers ? Therefore as if mere men could forgive a eternal dept sin. . we confess our mortal sins no such thing as venial . .confess to the invisible head, Christ. Not Peter our brother in the Lord .He was not qualified . He rebuked Christ and forbid the Son of man jesus from doing the will of the invisible Holy Father

He was forgiven of his blasphemy against the Son of man Jesus' dying flesh and blood. That 33 year window of opportunity ended when Jesus disappeared .Blasphemy against our invisible head "Christ" is not fogeiveable never was never will . A person cannot enter into a closed door " Christ" Jesus the key showed us the way as the truth of the Father

Peter could not forgive himself any more then the Son of man Jesus as born again a new creature a son of God the first of many brothers and sisters as sons of God .Jesus refused to move over and let jealous Peter take his place . Why any one would desire a jealous fleshly leader is a mystery???

Remands me of a poem I wrote a while back one of two (no poet)

The Key ----The open door

What a miracle the love you have revealed, teach me your thoughts, and do not conceal.

I spent my life soul searching to no avail imprisoned and locked without a key.

All my souls searching with all of my might couldn’t help I was losing the fight

Blinded and deaf I felt with my hands stumbling tripping trying to stand.

I gave up the search of looking for the key and again determined I would never be free

This prison I lived in so dark and cold then God sent his Son to release me from this eternal dark abode.

So bright is his Love and powerful His might. . . blinded my mind diminished what I called sight.

Then soft gentle voice I did hear “This is My Son”

So brilliant was his countenance at last I see. The reason he suffered for me.

The prison doors swung open as a gazed at His face I fell to my knees thanking for the gift of grace

He took me by the hand I started to cry, he whispered to me it’s why he chose to die

I thanked him as I followed as his light shown the way again marveling that for my trespass he did pay

My soul the restless wanderer is no more He is the Key ----the open door

 

[Josheb]

We are referring to sins committed after baptism that have been repented and confessed and received God’s mercy thru christ

Yep. They cannot be worked off to satisfy any offense caused God, not even after death.

 

[donadams]

Then though the hands of dying mankind as a law of the fathers ? Therefore as if mere men could forgive a eternal dept sin. . we confess our mortal sins no such thing as venial . .confess to the invisible head, Christ. Not Peter our brother in the Lord .He was not qualified . He rebuked Christ and forbid the Son of man jesus from doing the will of the invisible Holy Father

He was forgiven of his blasphemy against the Son of man Jesus' dying flesh and blood. That 33 year window of opportunity ended when Jesus disappeared .Blasphemy against our invisible head "Christ" is not fogeiveable never was never will . A person cannot enter into a closed door " Christ" Jesus the key showed us the way as the truth of the Father

Peter could not forgive himself any more then the Son of man Jesus as born again a new creature a son of God the first of many brothers and sisters as sons of God .Jesus refused to move over and let jealous Peter take his place . Why any one would desire a jealous fleshly leader is a mystery???

Remands me of a poem I wrote a while back one of two (no poet)

The Key ----The open door

What a miracle the love you have revealed, teach me your thoughts, and do not conceal.

I spent my life soul searching to no avail imprisoned and locked without a key.

All my souls searching with all of my might couldn’t help I was losing the fight

Blinded and deaf I felt with my hands stumbling tripping trying to stand.

I gave up the search of looking for the key and again determined I would never be free

This prison I lived in so dark and cold then God sent his Son to release me from this eternal dark abode.

So bright is his Love and powerful His might. . . blinded my mind diminished what I called sight.

Then soft gentle voice I did hear “This is My Son”

So brilliant was his countenance at last I see. The reason he suffered for me.

The prison doors swung open as a gazed at His face I fell to my knees thanking for the gift of grace

He took me by the hand I started to cry, he whispered to me it’s why he chose to die

I thanked him as I followed as his light shown the way again marveling that for my trespass he did pay

My soul the restless wanderer is no more He is the Key ----the open door

Jn 20:21-23

 

[donadams]

Yep. They cannot be worked off to satisfy any offense caused God, not even after death.

1 Peter 4:8
And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

 

[Josheb]

1 Peter 4:8
And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

Written by a living person to living people about conditions among the living.


One more example in a growing list of examples where scripture is a bused to say things it does not state.

 

[Mr GLee]

Jn 20:21-23

Can't turn things upside down .The doctrines of God fall like rain and not inspired from Rome or any earthly locations.

The context is not about calling Peter Vicar (substitute or replacement ) of Christ. He lovingly commands us to call not many Holy Father, Vicar of Christ, Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church, Pontifex maximus, Sovereign of the Vatican City State, etc

Christ needs no replacement he works in the hearts of alll born again believers daily

Matthew 16:19 and I will give to thee the keys of the reign of the heavens, and whatever thou mayest bind upon the earth shall be having been bound in the heavens, and whatever thou mayest loose upon the earth shall be having been loosed in the heavens.'
its not makind that said let there be and it was God

Matthew 18:18 `Verily I say to you, Whatever things ye may bind upon the earth shall be having been bound in the heavens, and whatever things ye may loose on the earth shall be having been loosed in the heavens.

Earthly Inspiration something important to study some turn it upside down

Isaiah 29:16Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?

Again if Jesus the Son of man is not the the Vicar (replacement, substitute ) of Christ the Holy Spirit of God ,Surely Peter our brother in the lord is not.

I would suggest. Study the doctrine of inspiration and a invisible head . They kind of work together.

Believers surely would not to offend Christ yoked with those born from above after he incorruptible born again seed the living word (Christ

The gospel turns it ight side up .

Deuteronomy 32King James Version32 Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth. My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:

Nothing given not even a hint of the approval of the Father that they are inspired from Rome or any earthly location kingdoms of the god of this world the lust of the eye the lust of the flesh the two building blocks of false pride Remember the god of this world offered all the kingdoms with all their glory if Jesus world bow down.

Earthly inspired of the devil inspiration that tries to make the inspiration of God coming down to no effect ,Simply false prophecy earthly inspired .

 

[donadams]

Can't turn things upside down .The doctrines of God fall like rain and not inspired from Rome or any earthly locations.

The context is not about calling Peter Vicar (substitute or replacement ) of Christ. He lovingly commands us to call not many Holy Father, Vicar of Christ, Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church, Pontifex maximus, Sovereign of the Vatican City State, etc

Christ needs no replacement he works in the hearts of alll born again believers daily

Matthew 16:19 and I will give to thee the keys of the reign of the heavens, and whatever thou mayest bind upon the earth shall be having been bound in the heavens, and whatever thou mayest loose upon the earth shall be having been loosed in the heavens.'
its not makind that said let there be and it was God

Matthew 18:18 `Verily I say to you, Whatever things ye may bind upon the earth shall be having been bound in the heavens, and whatever things ye may loose on the earth shall be having been loosed in the heavens.

Earthly Inspiration something important to study some turn it upside down

Isaiah 29:16Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?

Again if Jesus the Son of man is not the the Vicar (replacement, substitute ) of Christ the Holy Spirit of God ,Surely Peter our brother in the lord is not.

I would suggest. Study the doctrine of inspiration and a invisible head . They kind of work together.

Believers surely would not to offend Christ yoked with those born from above after he incorruptible born again seed the living word (Christ

The gospel turns it ight side up .

Deuteronomy 32King James Version32 Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth. My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:

Nothing given not even a hint of the approval of the Father that they are inspired from Rome or any earthly location kingdoms of the god of this world the lust of the eye the lust of the flesh the two building blocks of false pride Remember the god of this world offered all the kingdoms with all their glory if Jesus world bow down.

Earthly inspired of the devil inspiration that tries to make the inspiration of God coming down to no effect ,Simply false prophecy earthly inspired .

Does sola scriptura in your understanding mean “sacred scripture is the only authority”?

 

[Mr GLee]

The canon is a product of the church. Without the church you do not even have a new testament and you have no idea what it is in it..
Jerome - arguably the most famous ancient biblical translator - clearly leans to the church to decide on what is in scripture.
It is why you have the new testament you do.

I would offer without the living word of God as it is written to warn us . Dying mankind as a law of the fathers would puff themselves or venerate each other above all things written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura ) Mocking Him who makes one differ from another.

Taking away Gods authority as it is written (sola scriptura) and give it over to a Pope who makes dead men differ (patron saints ) each (3500) having an assigned work load . Its a dangerous game to play .

1 Corinthian's 4: 6-7 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another. For who (Pope?) maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

If God inspired one word and moved men to record it he inspired every one. The "We are the Canon assemblers" simply false pride working in dying mankind

 

[Mr GLee]

2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before thejudgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done inhis body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Christ according to 3 day and nights promised demonstration. Christ working with the Son of man Jesus he did experience the judgment seat in our place .The father striking him bruised his heel. His heel crushed the head of the serpent in that parable

Its the one death not two as in mistrial that is appointed to all dying flesh and blood . then comes the judgment as the tool of judgment the letter of the law it along with the daily sufferings of the pangs of hell will be cast into the judgment of God "Thou shalt not or you will surely die

The letter of the law the Bible will not rise up and condemn to death another entire creation again for ever more . The things of old they will not come to memory fore evermore. NEW CREATION

No room for Limbo or purgatory Dead is really dead never to rise.

 

[Carbon]

“Purgatory is a deadly fiction of Satan, which nullifies the cross of Christ, inflicts unbearable contempt upon God’s mercy, and overturns and destroys our faith.” - John Calvin

 

[Mr GLee]

It also as in first things first destroys annihilation doctrine .Removing hell sufferings unto death for a Catholic . Changing hell to wondering sufferings, wondering sufferings as a lying wonder .