Origin of the Cross is from Paganism

[Mr GLee]

His point being that those who worship other gods should come to Christ, the true God, and cease their worship of false deities.

Exactly, The reason King Josiah is considered the greatest king. one like never before or ever again . By the Spirit and power of the living word (sola scriptura) he cast out the lying spirit of the legion (many) false gods in the likeness of dying mankind. today called patron saints a succession of dying mankind


2 Kings 23:23-25King James VersionBut in the eighteenth year of king Josiah, wherein this passover was holden to the Lord in Jerusalem. Moreover the workers with familiar spirits, and the wizards, and the images, and the idols, and all the abominations that were spied in the land of Judah and in Jerusalem, did Josiah put away, that he might perform the words of the law which were written in the book that Hilkiah the priest found in the house of the Lord. And like unto him was there no king before him, that turned to the Lord with all his heart, and with all his soul, and with all his might, according to all the law of Moses; neither after him arose there any like him.

The Armor of the King Josiah, the Apologist

 

[CherubRam]

I do not see the alignment of text Josheb.

 

[Rella]

The Romans used different methods of hanging, not just one. The Messiah to come was to be hung on a (stake or pole.)

Okay.

Impaled or hands bound at the wrist nailed above his head to the stake?

 

[Josheb]

I do not see the alignment of text Josheb.

Then that is because either you're not looking, or looking but not discerning. Both these sources were writing about heresies, and only occasionally did they appeal to orthodoxy to measure the heresy. You've assumed they were writing about Christianity when they were not (or perhaps you were duped by quote mining sources that failed that discrimination themselves - since I do not know whether you got this op from someone else or read Tertullian and Felix independently, misunderstanding their writings).

When Tertullian cites those who worshipped other deities (in the Church or out of it) he does so with the necessary implication he does not do so. The alternative would necessarily be that he was an idolator and therefore nothing he wrote should be trusted and this op is built on the lies of an idolator. It's one or the other. He wrote explicitly about their ignorance of the cross and other deities! "You are indeed unaware that your gods in their origin have proceeded from this hated cross."

Hebrews 12:1-3
Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. For consider Him who has endured such hostility by sinners against Himself, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.

People do not hate wood, ordinary wood, or even wood cut, shaped, and formed into two intersecting pieces. That's just nonsense. That they would love wood was addressed decidedly by Paul in Romans 1.

Romans 1:24-25
[Having denied God's power evident in creation].... Therefore, God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

Those are the context of Tertullian's (and Felix's) writings. Neither author was inventing his own context or denying scripture and their study thereof.

Tertullian: Well, then, this modeller, before he did anything else, hit upon the form of a wooden cross, because even our own body assumes as its natural position the latent and concealed outline of a cross.

Scripture: But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these. (2 Timothy 3:1-5)​

We should expect people to pervert all elements of creation. We should expect them to worship that which is created (including themselves) and not the Creator. We should expect them to pervert creation for their own devices, including the carving of idols and the making of what is sacred into idols. It is what sinful man does. Why does sinful man do these things?

Because they can.

That is part of the reason the gospel kicks butt and takes name, owns all that was perverted by sin wherever it is used to that effect by God's people. We fail God. God's not failing Himself. Ops like this are prime examples of that failure. This op is not much different than the yearly plethora of nonsense we read/hear about Christmas. The less mature engage that nonsense with defenses of Christmas when what should be done is call it what it is, a red herring, and then either ignore the trolls or give them the gospel. Distributing historical factoids in denial of the lie only hardens hearts further. That Christmas-critic might walk away with a better understanding of history still dead in sin and the fact-distributor will likely walk away proud of his effectiveness distributing historical facts oblivious to the reality the opportunity to share the gospel just crossed his/her path and s/he missed it.

Tertullian was not silent.

He wrote about these heresies, the heresies inside and outside Christianity and not once did he ever deny the cross (even as a Montanist he stood for Calvary).

Tertullian: You are ashamed, I suppose, to worship unadorned and simple crosses.

Scripture: We (Christians) fix our eyes on the [simple] cross and its shame (Hebrews 12:2).​

1 Corinthians 1:18
For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.


Tertullian said, "Others, with greater regard to good manners, it must be confessed, suppose that the sun is the god of the Christians, because it is a well-known fact that we pray towards the east, or because we make Sunday a day of festivity," and in doing so he indicted those critics for their false cause fallacy. The implied argument is: Because Christians pray facing the east they are worshiping Sol. That's sheer nonsense! Facing east does NOT mean a person is praying to Sol (or any other god or God). It's a dumb argument; one that falls away as worthless the moment the fallacy employed is recognized.

You missed that.

So learn to be as critical of the critics as you are of my posts. Be an equal opportunity critic; examine everything you read/hear. Look for and listen for the logical fallacies and the eisegetic errors they employ (because they are endless and, sadly, Christians are not immune).

Tertullian: For the Jewish feasts on the Sabbath.... [the elements of faith upon which the gospel was predicated] and practices are of course foreign from your gods.​

What pagans and heretics were doing with the cross was foreign from the God of scripture, Tertullian's God. Then, stating he was returning from his digression, Tetullian concluded,

...you who reproach us with the sun and Sunday should consider your proximity to us. We are not far off from your Saturn and your days of rest."​

Come over to our understanding of the cross, our understanding of God. It is not so far to travel. There is only one God (multiple gods are logically self-contradictory). You do not have to leave behind a cross, but you will have to leave behind all the perverse notions of the cross and accept and bow down to the truth of Christ crucified and resurrected.

 

[CherubRam]

Okay.

Impaled or hands bound at the wrist nailed above his head to the stake?

Hands tied or nailed above. No impalement.

 

[CherubRam]

Speaking to Pagan Christian. (Catholics)

"You are indeed unaware that your gods in their origin have proceeded from this hated cross."
Pagans hanged their gods on crosses. That is a historical fact.


The cross is a geometrical figure formed by two intersecting lines and has been recognized as a symbol of Christianity since the early days of the religion, representing the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. Before its Christian significance, various forms of the cross were used as religious or cultural symbols in ancient Egypt, such as the ankh, which represented life, and in other cultures throughout Europe and Asia.

 

[Josheb]

Okay.

Impaled or hands bound at the wrist nailed above his head to the stake?

Hands tied or nailed above. No impalement.

Point of clarification: I believe I was the one who introduced the matter of impalement. I do not read @CherubRam to anywhere be saying or suggesting crucifixion has anything to do with impalement. I brought that up because before crucifixion existed the word "stauros" was also associated with sticks or poles used for impalement. My point being that the meaning of stauros is not monolithic, as is suggested in this opening post. Fundamentally, the fixation of pole or intersecting timbers (sometimes the "cross" was an "X" in which the feet of both posts were buried in the ground) is misguided and misses the point of the scriptures taken as a whole. It is the shame of a criminal's torturous punishment that is the problem to be solved. When God prophetically declared a curse on those hanged on (not from) a tree (Dt. 21:33), His emphasis was not on the form, but on the inherent desolation. It defiles the land. No matter how that body is fastened to that tree.... it is not to hang there overnight. Everything involved in that practice is a gross idolatrous perversion of God's creation. Humans pervert God's tree when they use them as tools for capital punishment and that is made all the more desolate and defiling when it happens to an innocent man. Cutting up the tree to make a pole or a +, or an X, is not better; it's worse. That which is living and produces fruit is killed to bring more death; its only fruit is desolate, defiling death.

The fundamental problem with the op is its false-cause argument = Because the word stauros means pole [modern] Christianity is false.

That argument is a load of ignorant hogwash. Qualifying the application to be an anti-RCC rag does not erase the foundational fallacy (and if that's the unstated purpose of the op then this thread belongs in the Roman Catholic Board, not the Bible Study Board).

 

[Rella]

Hands tied or nailed above. No impalement.

I am ... uneducated in this, going to opt for hands tied... and honestly maybe even feet.

My off the cuff reasoning is it is said... As John testifies, “These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: ‘Not one of his bones will be broken’” (John 19:36). The Exodus 12:46 rule is also echoed prophetically in Psalms 34:20: “He protects all his bones, not one of them will be broken.” To the last detail of his death, Jesus fulfilled the prophecies concerning the Messiah, verifying that he was, as John the Baptist claimed, the sacrificial Lamb of God.

You cannot drive a stake anywhere in the wrist, hands or feet without breaking some bone(s).

Now maybe a stake was driven into the wood, either a traditional cross or stake, where he could be tied.

If he had stakes in him, and if by some miracle managed to not break a bone, then when they took him off the cross then removal likely would have done it...

But that would not explain why Jesus showed his damaged palms to Thomas.... "” 27 Then He *said to Thomas, “Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing.”

So

 

[CherubRam]

I am ... uneducated in this, going to opt for hands tied... and honestly maybe even feet.

My off the cuff reasoning is it is said... As John testifies, “These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: ‘Not one of his bones will be broken’” (John 19:36). The Exodus 12:46 rule is also echoed prophetically in Psalms 34:20: “He protects all his bones, not one of them will be broken.” To the last detail of his death, Jesus fulfilled the prophecies concerning the Messiah, verifying that he was, as John the Baptist claimed, the sacrificial Lamb of God.

You cannot drive a stake anywhere in the wrist, hands or feet without breaking some bone(s).

Now maybe a stake was driven into the wood, either a traditional cross or stake, where he could be tied.

If he had stakes in him, and if by some miracle managed to not break a bone, then when they took him off the cross then removal likely would have done it...

But that would not explain why Jesus showed his damaged palms to Thomas.... "” 27 Then He *said to Thomas, “Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing.”

So View attachment 1012

Acts 2:23
This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the (cross / stake.)

 

[Rella]

Acts 2:23
This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the (cross / stake.)

Right, I had forgotten that. Too much going on at the moment. Thanks.

But ran into this and enter the RCC ideas... as always. Pagan Christians

Was Jesus Tied to the Cross?

Some scholars suggest artists got it wrong—Jesus was tied rather than nailed. Explore the evidence!

www.massexplained.com

Was Jesus Tied to the Cross?​

Most paintings depicting the crucifixion show Jesus’ hands and feet nailed to the cross. For centuries, this was accepted as fact.

Recently, however, this theory has been challenged. Some historians maintain that most crucifixion victims were tied to the cross, rather than nailed. They cite the fact that, with one exception, there is no archaeological evidence of a body with nail marks from crucifixion.

The Lone Exception​

The bones of a man crucified at the same time as Jesus were excavated in Jerusalem in 1968.

The ossuary containing the remains bears a Hebrew inscription—Yehohanan ben Hagkol—which, in English is John, son of Hagkol.

After his death, the body was brought down for burial. The soldiers were unable to detach his right foot since the nail bent after striking a knot in the wood. As a result, the foot and nail were removed together along with part of the wooden cross.

The nail used by the Roman soldiers in the archaeological discovery did not penetrate the foot from the top like most crucifixion depictions. In traditional paintings and sculptures, Christ’s feet overlap one another and a single nail transverses both via the dorsum pedis.

In this case, the nail was inserted in the side of the heel, below the ankle. In addition, wood was found under the head of the nail, indicating that a piece of wood was inserted so as to increase the size of the nail’s head making it difficult for the condemned to free his foot.

Illustration Courtesy of MassExplained App
Yehohanan’s hands did not exhibit any puncture wounds; therefore, it is conjectured that he was tied. The illustration below shows the most probable posture he assumed.

Illustration Courtesy of MassExplained App
To date, this is the only archaeological evidence of crucifixion in the ancient world.

Was Jesus Tied to the Cross?​

These scholars suggest that the time it took to drive several iron nails through flesh, dense muscle, tendons, bone and wood would have been excessive.

At times as many as 6,000 prisoners of war were crucified at once, making tying the convicted the more efficient practice. We see this method of affixing the condemned to the cross in most renditions of the good and bad thief who were crucified alongside Jesus.

Scriptural Evidence​

The Gospel accounts of the crucifixion do not mention nails. The only reference is in John’s Gospel when Thomas declares he must see…

“…the mark of the nails in his hands…’”
—John 20:25

Though there is only one place in Scripture that overtly mentions nails in Jesus’ hands, in several post-resurrection appearances, Jesus invites his followers to behold my hands and my feet, to prove his identity. Why would Jesus offer his hands and feet if they had no distinguishing marks?

This logic leads other scholars to conclude that using nails was the norm. The Jewish historian Josephus relays that Roman soldiers:

“…amused themselves by nailing their prisoners in different postures.”
—The Jewish War, 75 AD

Why Then No Evidence?​

Then why only one remain with nail marks? There are several possible reasons:

1. Iron was costly and the nails were removed.
2. Humiliation would continue after death. The body would be thrown in a garbage heap or left on the cross for wild beasts leaving no remains.
3. In Palestine, an honorable death required burial. The crucified were not typically allowed to be entombed. With no tomb, the victim was dishonored, the family denied a place to mourn and memory of the dead blotted from existence. Without a grave, no remains were preserved.

Nailed Where?​

If Jesus’ hands and feet were nailed to the cross, how were the nails placed?

Illustration Courtesy of MassExplained App
Some historians claim that a nail placed in the palm of the hand (A) could not support the weight of the human body—the nail would rip the flesh between the metacarpal bones.

Others claim that the transverse ligaments and conjunctive tissue in the hand are quite strong and could support the weight.

Image Courtesy of MassExplained App
Additionally, some crosses had a sedile, a small seat, and footrest which lessened the total weight the nails in the palms of the hands and the feet needed to support.

An alternate location is below the wrist (B). A nail placed between the radius and ulna would fit with the biblical account that no bones were broken. The Greek word translated as hand in John’s Gospel could refer to the arm and hand together.

AND MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL

 

[Mr GLee]

Hands tied or nailed above. No impalement.

Hung neck . Capitol punishment

Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree

Capitol punishment fall back break neck. Using the tribe of Dan to represent the poison of false prophecy sent by false apostles . Fall back Break neck hung (capitol judgment)

Neck as beauty

Genesis 49:17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.

2 Samuel 18:9-11King James Version9 And Absalom met the servants of David. And Absalom rode upon a mule, and the mule went under the thick boughs of a great oak, and his head caught hold of the oak, and he was taken up between the heaven and the earth; and the mule that was under him went away. And a certain man saw it, and told Joab, and said, Behold, I saw Absalom hanged in an oak.

Exodus 13:13And every firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb; and if thou wilt not redeem it, then thou shalt break his neck: and all the firstborn of man among thy children shalt thou redeem

John 18:5-7King James Version5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground. Then asked he them again, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth


1 Samuel 4:17-19King James Version17 And the messenger answered and said, Israel is fled before the Philistines, and there hath been also a great slaughter among the people, and thy two sons also, Hophni and Phinehas, are dead, and the ark of God is taken.18 And it came to pass, when he made mention of the ark of God, that he fell from off the seat backward by the side of the gate, and his neck brake, and he died: for he was an old man, and heavy. And he had judged Israel forty years.

Isaiah 28:13 But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

 

[EarlyActs]

Tertullian confessed that pagans worshiped crucified saviors by hanging them on a cross.

"Crosses, moreover, we Christians neither venerate nor wish for. You indeed who consecrate gods of wood venerate wooden crosses, perhaps as parts of your gods. For your very standards, as well as your banners, and flags of your camps, what are they but crosses gilded and adorned? Your victorious trophies not only imitate the appearance of a simple cross, but also that of a man affixed to it."

The pagan roots of Christianity are indicated by his confession. Tertullian was a Christian who later became a Gnostic. He implies that Pagan Christians borrowed the sun-god myth.

Tertullian​

Roman Christian theologian and writer (c. 155 – c. 220)​

Tertullian was a prolific early Christian author from Carthage in the Roman province of Africa. He was the first Christian author to produce an extensive corpus of Latin Christian literature and was an early Christian apologist and a polemicist against heresy, including contemporary Christian Gnosticism.

What does Galatians 3 say about the Deuteronomy quote?

 

[CherubRam]

The original Christians who had the letters of the Disciples were killed off by the Pagan Catholics. Afterward the Catholics proclaimed themselves to be the true Christians.

Pope Gregory and Paganism.
The attitude of the Catholic Church toward paganism is best summed up by Pope Gregory the Great, in his words to a missionary: “You must not interfere with any traditional belief or religious observance that can be harmonized with Christianity.”
Pope Gregory 540 – 12 March 604.

Not only were the Congregations divided by Gnosticism, but enticed by philosophy and paganism also, and there were geographic divisions as well.

What were the Pagan beliefs harmonized with Christianity?

 

[Rella]

Hung neck . Capitol punishment

Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree

Capitol punishment fall back break neck. Using the tribe of Dan to represent the poison of false prophecy sent by false apostles . Fall back Break neck hung (capitol judgment)

Neck as beauty

Genesis 49:17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.

2 Samuel 18:9-11King James Version9 And Absalom met the servants of David. And Absalom rode upon a mule, and the mule went under the thick boughs of a great oak, and his head caught hold of the oak, and he was taken up between the heaven and the earth; and the mule that was under him went away. And a certain man saw it, and told Joab, and said, Behold, I saw Absalom hanged in an oak.

Exodus 13:13And every firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb; and if thou wilt not redeem it, then thou shalt break his neck: and all the firstborn of man among thy children shalt thou redeem

John 18:5-7King James Version5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground. Then asked he them again, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth


1 Samuel 4:17-19King James Version17 And the messenger answered and said, Israel is fled before the Philistines, and there hath been also a great slaughter among the people, and thy two sons also, Hophni and Phinehas, are dead, and the ark of God is taken.18 And it came to pass, when he made mention of the ark of God, that he fell from off the seat backward by the side of the gate, and his neck brake, and he died: for he was an old man, and heavy. And he had judged Israel forty years.

Isaiah 28:13 But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

NO MATTER WHERE YOU OR ANYONE FALLS ON THIS BELIEF.... It is said Jesus showed Thomas his hands and every picture an artist has done of this shows palms.

But I have found this.

A Possible Solution to the Location of the Nail Prints​

I think the answer to the problem is fairly straightforward, once we look at the Greek text. The Greek word for hand – χειρ – which is used twice in the passage cited above means “A hand or any relevant portion of the hands, including, for example, the fingers.” (Nida & Louw, Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament Based on Semantic Domains, Vol. 1, p. 98.). The question is whether the word “hand” in Greek also included the wrist. The word “wrist” or “wrists” appears only in Acts 12:7 in the NIV New Testament. In the Old Testament it appears twice in the Genesis 38:27 & 30, in Jeremiah 40:4 and Ezekiel 13:18. In Acts 12:7 and in the Septuagint of the OT verses the “wrist” is a translation of χειρ. So, it would seem that “wrist” was included within the semantic range of χειρ and so the problem seems to be solved. John 20:27 could quite accurately be translated: “…See my wrists. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

 

[Mr GLee]

NO MATTER WHERE YOU OR ANYONE FALLS ON THIS BELIEF.... It is said Jesus showed Thomas his hands and every picture an artist has done of this shows palms.

But I have found this.

A Possible Solution to the Location of the Nail Prints​

I think the answer to the problem is fairly straightforward, once we look at the Greek text. The Greek word for hand – χειρ – which is used twice in the passage cited above means “A hand or any relevant portion of the hands, including, for example, the fingers.” (Nida & Louw, Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament Based on Semantic Domains, Vol. 1, p. 98.). The question is whether the word “hand” in Greek also included the wrist. The word “wrist” or “wrists” appears only in Acts 12:7 in the NIV New Testament. In the Old Testament it appears twice in the Genesis 38:27 & 30, in Jeremiah 40:4 and Ezekiel 13:18. In Acts 12:7 and in the Septuagint of the OT verses the “wrist” is a translation of χειρ. So, it would seem that “wrist” was included within the semantic range of χειρ and so the problem seems to be solved. John 20:27 could quite accurately be translated: “…See my wrists. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

Hi thanks

In that parable. Hung on a tree. Hands point to will used along will forehead, mind . Same as the forehead the mind of Christ that worked in the Son of man Jesus our brother in the Lord

Hands and head used as one a metaphor in a 5 places as a mark (what he says comes to pass.) Not a outward sign that sign seekers seek after rather than prophecy.

An evil generation does seek after one. They made jesus into a circus seal . .work some magic, perform a miracle then when we see with our own eyes then for 1/2 a second they believe

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Forehead and hand of God neck of enemy or neck of the beleiver . Neck as a metaphor used in parables. The part of body between the head and the trunk and which connects those parts,

2 Chronicles 26:19
Then Uzziah was wroth, and had a censer in his hand to burn incense: and while he was wroth with the priests, the leprosy even rose up in his forehead before the priests in the house of the Lord, from beside the incense altar.

Genesis 45:14 And he fell upon his brother Benjamin's neck, (a will) and wept; and Benjamin wept upon his neck.(a will ). . weeping for each other

Psalm 18:40Thou hast also given me the necks of mine enemies; that I might destroy them that hate me.

Psalm 75:5Lift not up your horn on high: speak not with a stiff neck.

Capitol punishment forehead as will the hand .of justice Just as so that his rider shall fall backward. Break neck

Genesis 49:17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.

Without parables Christ the teaching master who worked in the Son of man Jesus He spoke not . The temporal historical must be mixed with the faith of Christ's labor of love. . . the eternal not seen .

No mix no gospel rest (Hebrew 4:1-2)

Used that same way with Thomas. The apostle Jesus given words from the head our father rebuked Thomas through the mighty hand of his faith or power .

He lovingly commanded Thomas not to be faithless but rather believe (faithful). . Exercise faith from the mind of Christ the head Then given the power to believe from the father Thomas acknowledge the living word of Christ the husband

The confession of faith the mighty hand of the Lord as the will ,. . . . .My Lord and my God

John 20:27-28King James Version Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: "and" be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Catholic have a whole doctrine built on the faithlessness . . no power from the forehead as the will. Mystical Stigmata

 

[Mr GLee]

He declares dying mankind dead dead (no faith) Can;t see a soul

Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Of his own flesh no profit. What did was the unseen Spirit life .

The temporal dying must be mixed with the eternal unseen .Then a person has received the gospel rest (correct interptation) .

He has given us the formula to rightly divide parables ..2 Corinthians 4:18. Very valuable interpretation tool part of every study .

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

2 Corinthians 4:18 King James Version While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

No eye has seen or heart perceived the invisible eternal things of Christ .

God is not a racist.

God is not a man as us. and no Pope between.

 

[CherubRam]

Wrist is part of the hand.

 

[Mr GLee]

Wrist is part of the hand.

I don't think the word wrist is used as a metaphor. It is between the arm and hand .

Arm and right hand the power of the will

Psalm 89:13 Thou hast a mighty arm: strong is thy hand,(will) and high is thy right hand.

The neck seems to be focus between the body and head.

Like hand and forehead as will . Capitol punishment's. Break neck

 

[Mr GLee]

Wrist is part of the hand.

You offered A mark An ash cross on the forehead, or an "ash cross on the right hand" refers to the practice of marking a cross shape on the back of one's right hand with ashes, typically done on Ash Wednesday in Catholic traditions

I would offer first and foremost a mark in not a sign a day and night differnce

Satan who has no spiritual understanding is not subject to the gospel. As the father of lies He would make it all one in the same "Flesh and Spirit" the temporal what the eyes see in order to remove the spiritual unseen eternal understanding. . .called faith .(Power to believe)

The warning seems clear over and over no sign was given .But that did not stop him He is the King of lying signs to wonder, marvel , wonder wonder after as if it was true prophecy .Again, the King of lying signs to wonder after, not subject to the gospel .

Its why he asked Jesus if you are the Son of God .he has no idea what a Christian is .. . not a clue

He is famous for what some call out of body experience which is simply allowing lying spirits entering in

Mathew 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Colossians 2: extends the author of lying sign to wonder, wonder after .Same ones that made Jesus into a circus seal perform some magic work a miracle the when we see it with out own eye we will believe for 1/2 a second

Colossians 2:18Some people enjoy acting as if they are humble and love to worship angels. They always talk about the visions they have seen. Don’t listen to them when they say you are wrong because you don’t do these things. It is so foolish for them to feel such pride, because it is all based on their own human ideas.

God extend his authority of scripture, as it is written( prophecy) , as it is written as it is writen .No wondering needed !

No signs were given. . believers have prophecy til the end of time

 

[CherubRam]

A "sign" or "mark" refers to a visible indication, symbol, or impression that signifies something, often used to identify, distinguish, or convey information about a person, place, or thing; essentially, it's a visual cue that represents something else.