Monophysites?

[QVQ]

Monophysites
This is a new word for me although it dates back to Justinian or earlier.
When I read it, I realized I have always assumed that Jesus only had one nature, divine.
He had two persons, God and Man so He was subject to all the flesh is heir to but His nature was God.
Does anyone know what the doctrine is concerning this?

 

[Fred]

What is monophysitism? What is Eutychianism? | GotQuestions.org

What is monophysitism? What is Eutychianism? What is a monophysite? What were some of the early beliefs about the deity and humanity of Christ?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[QVQ]

OK
It seems to a problem of semantics in my case. I would say "body" rather than "nature." Jesus had the body of a man therefore the nature of a man yet He was fully God with the nature of God.
So here is what I decided, scripturally.

Jesus and God are one substance. "I and my Father are one" John 10:30-38
However Jesus became flesh and had the nature of that flesh as He was fully human while still being fully divine.
So Jesus has two natures, one Divine and one Human.
Any thoughts?

 

[donadams]

Yes two natures but in one divine person who took on human nature, with two wills!

Full God
Fully Man

Athanasius Creed!
(From the early church)
Whoever desires to be saved must above all hold to the catholic faith.

Anyone who does not keep it whole and entire will doubtless perish eternally.

Now this is the catholic faith:

That we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity, neither blending their persons nor dividing their essence. For the person of the Father is a distinct person, the person of the Son is another,
and that of the Holy Spirit still another.
But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, their glory equal, their majesty coeternal.

What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has. The Father is uncreated, the Son is uncreated, the Holy Spirit is uncreated.

The Father is immeasurable, the Son is immeasurable, the Holy Spirit is immeasurable.

The Father is eternal, the Son is eternal,
the Holy Spirit is eternal.

And yet there are not three eternal beings; there is but one eternal being.
So too there are not three uncreated or immeasurable beings, there is but one uncreated and immeasurable being.

Similarly, the Father is almighty, the Son is almighty, the Holy Spirit is almighty. Yet there are not three almighty beings;
there is but one almighty being.

Thus the Father is God,
the Son is God,
the Holy Spirit is God.
Yet there are not three gods;
there is but one God.

Thus the Father is Lord,
the Son is Lord,
the Holy Spirit is Lord.
Yet there are not three lords;
there is but one Lord.

Just as Christian truth compels us
to confess each person individually
as both God and Lord, so catholic religion forbids us to say that there are three gods or lords.

The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten from anyone. The Son was neither made nor created; he was begotten from the Father alone. The Holy Spirit was neither made nor created nor begotten; he proceeds from the Father and the Son.

Accordingly there is one Father, not three fathers; there is one Son, not three sons;
there is one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.

Nothing in this trinity is before or after,
nothing is greater or smaller; in their entirety the three persons are coeternal and coequal with each other.

So in everything, as was said earlier,
we must worship their trinity in their unity and their unity in their trinity.

Anyone then who desires to be saved
should think thus about the trinity.

But it is necessary for eternal salvation
that one also believe in the incarnation
of our Lord Jesus Christ faithfully.

Now this is the true faith:

That we believe and confess
that our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son,
is both God and human, equally.

He is God from the essence of the Father,
begotten before time; and he is human from the essence of his mother, born in time; completely God, completely human, with a rational soul and human flesh; equal to the Father as regards divinity, less than the Father as regards humanity.

Although he is God and human,
yet Christ is not two, but one.
He is one, however, not by his divinity being turned into flesh, but by God's taking humanity to himself.He is one,
certainly not by the blending of his essence, but by the unity of his person.
For just as one human is both rational soul and flesh, so too the one Christ is both God and human.

He suffered for our salvation; he descended to hell; he arose from the dead; he ascended to heaven; he is seated at the Father's right hand; from there he will come to judge the living and the dead. At his coming all people will arise bodily and give an accounting of their own deeds. Those who have done good will enter eternal life, and those who have done evil will enter eternal fire.

This is the catholic faith:
one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully.

Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God of hosts!

 

[donadams]

Nicea 325 creed

We believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made; one in being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven; he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary, and was made man. He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate; he suffered and was buried. The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures. He ascended to heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will never end.

And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life. He proceeds from the Father and the Son, and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified. He spoke through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church. We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look forward to the resurrection of the dead, and to life in the world to come. Amen.

 

[1Thess521]

Athanasius Creed!

Nicea 325 creed

Actually, it is the Chalcedonian Creed:

In summary

One God, three divine Persons
The three Persons share one divine nature
The Second Person of the Trinity added to His divine nature a human nature at the Incarnation.
So that the one divine person has two natures; human and divine.
Once again: One person. not two.

The two eternally distinct natures exist in one divine Person.
Not mixed natures: not combined, not co-mingled

Here is how to apply it:

Everything that is true about either nature can be said to be true about the One Person
However; what is true about the One Person may not be true about both natures.

For example:
Jesus in His divine nature in omniscient: so we can say Jesus is omniscient.
Jesus in His human nature grew in wisdom: so we can say Jesus learned.

 

[donadams]

See you do agree with dogma


12. There is only One God.
*Deut. 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:


13. The One God is, in the ontological sense, The True God.
14. God possesses an infinite power of cognition.
15. God is absolute Veracity.
16. God is absolutely faithful.
17. God is absolute ontological Goodness in Himself and in relation to others.
18. God is absolute Moral Goodness or Holiness.
19. God is absolute Benignity.
20. God is absolutely immutable.
21. God is eternal.
*Psalm 90: 2 …even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
*Deut. 33:27 the eternal God is thy refuge…

34. In God there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. Each of the Three
Persons possesses the one (numerical) Divine Essence.
35. In God there are two Internal Divine Processions.
36. The Divine Persons, not the Divine Nature, are the subject of the Internal Divine processions (in the active and in the passive sense).
37. The Second Divine Person proceeds from the First Divine Person by Generation, and therefore is related to Him as Son to a Father.
38. The Holy Ghost proceeds from the Father and from the Son as from a Single Principle through a Single Spiration.
39. The Holy Ghost does not proceed through generation but through spiration.
40. The Relations in God are really identical with the Divine Nature.
41. The Three Divine Persons are in One Another.
42. All the ad extra Activities of God are common to all Three Persons.

The nature of God is a mystery!

3. God’s Nature is incomprehensible to men.

Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God of hosts!

 

[Arial]

Monophysites
This is a new word for me although it dates back to Justinian or earlier.
When I read it, I realized I have always assumed that Jesus only had one nature, divine.
He had two persons, God and Man so He was subject to all the flesh is heir to but His nature was God.
Does anyone know what the doctrine is concerning this?

He had both a human nature from his mother and a divine nature from his father---God. The two natures were not mixed but always distinct. He did not have the fallen nature of man as that is passed through Adam. He was fully human, experiencing all that we do, living in a fallen world as we do, but not sinning.

It was necessary for the one who stood in our place as our redeemer to be of the same kind as those he substituted for. In order to be our substitute he had to have flesh that could suffer and die in our place. But he also had to be eternal life in order to give eternal life.

 

[Arial]

OK
It seems to a problem of semantics in my case. I would say "body" rather than "nature." Jesus had the body of a man therefore the nature of a man yet He was fully God with the nature of God.
So here is what I decided, scripturally.

Jesus and God are one substance. "I and my Father are one" John 10:30-38
However Jesus became flesh and had the nature of that flesh as He was fully human while still being fully divine.
So Jesus has two natures, one Divine and one Human.
Any thoughts?

They are one essence. Co-equal, co-eternal. The reason nature is used , rather than just body, is because he came to undo the change In man's nature that occurred as a result of the fall. And to identify the type of body it is. Man became a being that sin---the sinful being. Jesus did not have a sinful nature, he had the nature man was created with.

 

[Alive]

I only have to understand that God Himself took responsibility for redeeming and repairing His Creation.
He did so through Himself.
Look at Abraham and Issac at the burnt alter.
God said He would provide Himself, as a sacrifice.
This is the core of the Gospel.
Very simple.
We can grasp this as parents…think about it.

 

[JIM]

He had both a human nature from his mother and a divine nature from his father---God.

That is a man-introduced construct that has no biblical basis and no biological basis.

The two natures were not mixed but always distinct. He did not have the fallen nature of man as that is passed through Adam.

Another construct that has no biblical basis. That reeks the fallacy of traducianism.

He was fully human, experiencing all that we do, living in a fallen world as we do, but not sinning.

Yes, the sacrifice needed to be absolutely perfect in every way.

It was necessary for the one who stood in our place as our redeemer to be of the same kind as those he substituted for. In order to be our substitute he had to have flesh that could suffer and die in our place. But he also had to be eternal life in order to give eternal life.

So, in what way do you think He was eternal life? I believe there is a very good biblical answer for that, but I would wait for your answer.

 

[JIM]

They are one essence. Co-equal, co-eternal. The reason nature is used , rather than just body, is because he came to undo the change In man's nature that occurred as a result of the fall. And to identify the type of body it is. Man became a being that sins---a sinful being. Jesus did not have a sinful nature, he had the nature man was created with.

If that is true, then Jesus wasn't really fully human as you and I and the rest of all mankind are.

 

[Arial]

If that is true, then Jesus wasn't really fully human as you and I and the rest of all mankind are.

Were Adam and Eve fully human when they were created? Were they created sinful or were they created without sin but able to sin?

 

[JIM]

Were Adam and Eve fully human when they were created? Were they created sinful or were they created without sin but able to sin?

No one is created sinful. All have been created without sin but able to sin. Arial, you cannot blame anyone but yourself for your sins, not God, not Adam, and not even Satan. It is just you. Face it.

 

[Arial]

No one is created sinful. All have been created without sin but able to sin. Arial, you cannot blame anyone but yourself for your sins, not God, not Adam, and not even Satan. It is just you. Face it.

I don't blame Adam or God or anyone else for my sins. I am puzzled as to why you think I do.

What do you have to say about Monophysites?

 

[Arial]

That is a man-introduced construct that has no biblical basis and no biological basis.

What man is it that introduced the construct? What is your construct? (I.e. what is the truth of the matter?) Who created what we know as biology? Does the one who created it also have complete dominion over it to do as He pleases? Is there anything within our knowledge of the various sciences that says it is possible for the sun and moon to stand still for a day?

Is it biologically possible for a man dead and in the grave, wrapped head to toe in grave clothes as was the custom, stinking of decomposition, to come walking out of the grave?

So many question arise from your statement and not a one of them explained biologically.

Another construct that has no biblical basis. That reeks the fallacy of traducianism.

How so?



In Christian theology, traducianism is a doctrine about the origin of the soul holding that this immaterial aspect is transmitted through natural generation along with the body, the material aspect of human beings. That is, human propagation is of the whole being, both material and immaterial aspects: an individual's soul is derived from the soul of one or both parents. This implies that only the soul of Adam was created directly by God (with Eve's substance, material and immaterial, being taken from out of Adam), in contrast with the idea of creationism of the soul, which holds that all souls are created directly by God.[1

I said nothing of the soul, but was speaking of nature.

Human nature
Human nature comprises the fundamental dispositions and characteristics—including ways of thinking, feeling, and acting—that humans are said to have naturally. The term is often used to denote the essence of humankind, or what it 'means' to be human.

It is the Bible---therefore God---who repeatedly tells us that sin came into the world through one man. It compares "in Christ" with "in Adam." You of course can choose to interpret that anyway you choose. I prefer to take it at face value, considering empirical evidence, and evidence within the whole of Scripture. Even though there is a great deal of faith involved in doing so, (actually believing what God says even though I do not understand the hows and whys of a thing and it does not fit into earthly wisdom and knowledge.) IOW I never try to explain or understand God on a horizontal basis, but let Him speak for Himself, and believe what He says.

There was something so different about the birth of Jesus that it can only be super-natural. An act of God. He had a human mother like all of humanity does. But He did not have a human father, as we do. Scripture tells us God was the one who fathered Him. Such a thing had never happened before and never will again.

 

[Mr GLee]

Monophysites
This is a new word for me although it dates back to Justinian or earlier.
When I read it, I realized I have always assumed that Jesus only had one nature, divine.
He had two persons, God and Man so He was subject to all the flesh is heir to but His nature was God.
Does anyone know what the doctrine is concerning this?

I would offer. .

I would think God who has no beginning of Holy Spirit life is without geanalolgy ( flesh to flesh" or neither end of days .Christ is supernatural without nature no beginning. Invisible. . "Let there be power" and "it raised the dead to newness of spirt life "

It would seem the father of lies would seduce a person to believe God does have a beginning A nature. A Creation and not the Faithful and true Let there be Creator

Queen mother of heaven needed to give God a nature

 

[Arial]

So, in what way do you think He was eternal life? I believe there is a very good biblical answer for that, but I would wait for your answer.

1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true;; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

The way He was eternal life (a rather odd wording of your question) is that He is God who is eternal, therefore eternal life. There is not a "way" in which He is eternal life. Eternal life is who He is. So, if that does not answer your question, perhaps you can reword it.

 

[JIM]

I don't blame Adam or God or anyone else for my sins. I am puzzled as to why you think I do.

What do you have to say about Monophysites?

If you were created as a sinful being, then obviously it was in the creating that you were made a sinful being. But I think that is not correct.

With respect to Monophysites, I think the answer lies in what one thinks about the actual meaning of John's opening verses. When it says that the Word was God (v.1) and the Word became flesh (v.14), we need to know and understand what that says. That is right in tune with Hebrews 2:14 which says that He, that is the Word of John 1, partook of the flesh and blood.

I think that human beings consist of bodies, i.e., the flesh and blood as stated in Hebrews 2:14. To that, human beings have a spirit, or soul if you prefer that designation. In the case of Jesus, we know that physically He was born of the virgin Mary, from which he received His flesh and blood. The question then is, in becoming the human being that He was, where did His spirit or soul come from. Our spirits come directly from God (Zech 12:1; Eccl 12:7). I believe that the spirit of Jesus was that one and the same Spirit that was the Word who in the beginning was God and was with God. That is, the pre-incarnate Spirit, called the Word, came to earth and took on the flesh and blood of the fetus in the impregnated Mary. It is in the flesh and blood that He took on that he was fully human and it was in the pre-incarnate Spirit, called the Word, that He was fully divine. That preincarnate Spirit, called the Word, did not simply disappear during the time that Jesus was alive here on earth. That Spirit always was, is and always will be. When Jesus, the man, the human being, on that cross, called out, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit" (Luke 23:44), it was that very same, pre-incarnate Spirit, the Word, that Jesus committed to the Father. And when Jesus was raised from the dead, His body was "repaired" and reunited with the Spirit, the Word.

Human nature and divine nature. Fully Human, fully divine. Therefore, Monophysites, if I understand correctly what it means, is simply wrong.

 

[Mr GLee]

No one is created sinful. All have been created without sin but able to sin. Arial, you cannot blame anyone but yourself for your sins, not God, not Adam, and not even Satan. It is just you. Face it.

I would offer Flesh signified as sinful (the Son of man Jesus ) was needed to do what the letter of the law death (thou shall not) It cannot give new eternal life which is according to the law of faith the unseen eternal things of Christ

Romans 8:2-4King James Version2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Two laws making one new perfect law .Death and life.

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just,(death) and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.