Jesus' salvation is not God's AA for sinning.

[Ghada]

In AA, people endeavor to stop drinking with support groups and programs to help keep their sobriety. Drinking becomes an ongoing daily struggle. The main goal is to not stop trying to not drink and stop attending meetings. At those meetings, every member must reconfirm openly that they are an alcoholic. It is a necessary reconfirmation of their need to struggle against drinking. No member ever says they were an alcoholic. Once an alcoholic always an alcoholic is their motto. Many of course suffer times of depression, and that is when they must be most sure to come to the AA meetings.

Some Christians preach the gospel of Jesus Christ as God's AA program for sinning. Let's look at the exact similarities with their churches and AA meetings:

They must always say they are sinners. They can never say they were sinners, which is self deception. They teach once a sinner always a sinner, by sin nature. Not sinning is a daily ongoing struggle, that is never completely won. Their goal is to not stop struggling with sin. Their churches minister to help sinners to sin less and make their lives better. At times of falling to sinning, they need church attendance most.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is of course neither. When we repent of sinning from the heart, Jesus wipes away the old life and gives us a new heart of God, not of sinners. We no longer need call ourselves sinners, because now we are not sinning against Jesus. We don't have an ongoing daily struggle with sinning, but rather a sure faith in Jesus, that we will overcome temptation. We are not sinners struggling with daily sin, with times of depressing failure. We are saints in Christ Jesus overcoming all temptation like Jesus, with a free and glad heart of His Spirit.

 

[Josheb]

Jesus' salvation is not God's AA for sinning.

I notice two ops on grace and salvation not being a license to sin were recently posted and I have perused all the opening posts (ops) you've authored.

Are you aware this is a Christian forum inhabited by Christians and most of the forum's members here were invited by the forum's founder specifically because of their relative maturity in Christ and prowess with scripture? I ask because many of the ops are self-evident and not matters of dispute for anyone who has read the Bible. I also ask because a few of the ops are post of personal views that are incorrect and none of the threads show any evidence of the subjects of the ops being discussed. Five threads have been authored but none of their content is being discussed. I read in your introduction, "The one requirement to learn more from others is honesty with what is being said, and the willingness to be corrected. Growth in life is by learning from our mistakes, and so is growth in knowledge," but I do not see anything remotely consistent with that statement in the threads. I also notice you're in Syria. I'm very curious about what the life of a Christian in Syria might be like.

Why did you join the forum? Please be honest. Be sincere. Be forthcoming.

 

[ChristB4us]

In AA, people endeavor to stop drinking with support groups and programs to help keep their sobriety. Drinking becomes an ongoing daily struggle. The main goal is to not stop trying to not drink and stop attending meetings. At those meetings, every member must reconfirm openly that they are an alcoholic. It is a necessary reconfirmation of their need to struggle against drinking. No member ever says they were an alcoholic. Once an alcoholic always an alcoholic is their motto. Many of course suffer times of depression, and that is when they must be most sure to come to the AA meetings.

AA & NA teaches a higher power that any member can pick as to who or what that higher power is and others have to respect that choice in AA & NA meetings.

Each member is expected to make a commitment which is like a promise and so eyes will roll when members hear a member speak of their higher power and yet pat them on the back for keeping that commitment and no praise to that higher power be given because the member kept his commitment.

And so it is with a believer's commitment to follow Him; they get the praise for following Him but no credit will be given to the Lord Jesus Christ because it was the believer that kept his or her commitment.

Matthew 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20 These are the things which defile a man:

We are to follow Him by faith that He is our Good Shepherd & Friend. That means denying ourselves as able as if power comes from us by keeping that commitment in following him, but to pick up the cross daily as it is not we who live, but Christ in us, and so that is how we are following Him by faith when we are trusting Him as our Good Shepherd & Friend to help us to follow Him for we can do nothing without Him.

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Galatians 2:15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. 18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
If righteousness can come to us by keeping a commitment or make us do good, then Christ died in vain.
John 3:28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him. 29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled. 30 He must increase, but I must decrease.

Galatians 5:1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.... 5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Therefore a believer's commitment cannot speak of the believer's faith in Jesus Christ for the religious people of the world will only see that believer's commitment; never his faith in Jesus Christ.

Some Christians preach the gospel of Jesus Christ as God's AA program for sinning. Let's look at the exact similarities with their churches and AA meetings:

They really should not tale after the rudiments in the world.

Colossians 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

They must always say they are sinners. They can never say they were sinners, which is self deception. They teach once a sinner always a sinner, by sin nature. Not sinning is a daily ongoing struggle, that is never completely won. Their goal is to not stop struggling with sin. Their churches minister to help sinners to sin less and make their lives better. At times of falling to sinning, they need church attendance most.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is of course neither. When we repent of sinning from the heart, Jesus wipes away the old life and gives us a new heart of God, not of sinners. We no longer need call ourselves sinners, because now we are not sinning against Jesus. We don't have an ongoing daily struggle with sinning, but rather a sure faith in Jesus, that we will overcome temptation. We are not sinners struggling with daily sin, with times of depressing failure. We are saints in Christ Jesus overcoming all temptation like Jesus, with a free and glad heart of His Spirit.

Some sinners that get saved, have experienced deliverance from alcoholism or other types of habitual sins and are never bothered by any temptations towards that regard ever again. Some have experienced deliverance and yet find on occasions of their need for Jesus to keep them from it. Some are saved and still finding problem with a certain sin everyday for which they need to look to Jesus Christ daily to help them lay aside ever weight & sin in walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son.

It is not unheard of for a saved believer to find himself or herself facing fiery trials in their walks with the Lord, but with Jesus Christ in us and with us always, we can have confidence in Him to overcome any sin or fiery trial that comes our way in life; yea, even carry us through.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:... 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

1 Peter 4:1Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; 2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: 13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy. 14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. 15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters. 16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. 17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

 

[Ghada]

I notice two ops on grace and salvation not being a license to sin were recently posted and I have perused all the opening posts (ops) you've authored.

Are you aware this is a Christian forum inhabited by Christians and most of the forum's members here were invited by the forum's founder specifically because of their relative maturity in Christ and prowess with scripture? I ask because many of the ops are self-evident and not matters of dispute for anyone who has read the Bible. I also ask because a few of the ops are post of personal views that are incorrect and none of the threads show any evidence of the subjects of the ops being discussed. Five threads have been authored but none of their content is being discussed. I read in your introduction, "The one requirement to learn more from others is honesty with what is being said, and the willingness to be corrected. Growth in life is by learning from our mistakes, and so is growth in knowledge," but I do not see anything remotely consistent with that statement in the threads. I also notice you're in Syria. I'm very curious about what the life of a Christian in Syria might be like.

Why did you join the forum? Please be honest. Be sincere. Be forthcoming.

When you quote any point I make, and show any error in it from the verses I give, then I'd be glad to see it.

In the meantime, "You're wrong, because I don't like it" doesn't cut it.

And making childish accusations, because something doesn't agree with your conscience, is typical for some immature belly-aching Christians here.

 

[Ghada]

AA & NA teaches a higher power that any member can pick as to who or what that higher power is and others have to respect that choice in AA & NA meetings.

OK.

Each member is expected to make a commitment which is like a promise and so eyes will roll when members hear a member speak of their higher power and yet pat them on the back for keeping that commitment and no praise to that higher power be given because the member kept his commitment.

I suppose.

And so it is with a believer's commitment to follow Him; they get the praise for following Him but no credit will be given to the Lord Jesus Christ because it was the believer that kept his or her commitment.

If they name the name of Christ coming in, and not going out, then sure.

However, it's the spirit and manner of AA that I describe, which you are not addressing, and so obviously agree with the comparison between the world's AA, and certain 'AA' type Christian churches.

Certain Christian ideologies say they must never cease calling themselves sinners for life, just like AA members must never cease calling themselves alcoholics.

And there are two real differences between them (other than drinking only vs sinning itself). Firstly the AA stated purpose and goal is to stop drinking altogether as a real possibility in this life. In 'AA' Christian churches, that is never put forth as a goal nor even possibility.

Secondly, AA members do not say people are born alcoholics, but only make themselves alcoholics by drunkenness without power to stop. Some AA Christians actually preach their sinning from cradle to grave, as though Christ sinfully makes people that way from the womb.

Christ does not make sinners in the womb, nor in this life, but rather we make ourselves sinners by sinning against Christ. Jesus Christ only takes our sins away, and never puts it in us to do so.

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death

 

[ChristB4us]

OK.

I suppose.

If they name the name of Christ coming in, and not going out, then sure.

Not sure what you mean by that last comment there, because either way, a believer's commitment is denying Him as the power for following him by faith when they resort to their own power by following him by keeping that commitment.

However, it's the spirit and manner of AA that I describe, which you are not addressing, and so obviously agree with the comparison between the world's AA, and certain 'AA' type Christian churches.

Just sharing why Christians should not make that comparison in the first place for why I am agreeing with you on that point, les they validate how religious Christians are living these days by doing the best they can by their will power in keeping that commitment.

Certain Christian ideologies say they must never cease calling themselves sinners for life, just like AA members must never cease calling themselves alcoholics.

1 Timothy 1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

How do you apply the red of Paul's words? Is that referring to his current state or not? To me, acknowledging his need as I do for Christ daily because we are still in this fallible flesh for why we are always Spirit-filled since salvation so that we are held accountable to what we sow towards. And like it or not, life and fiery trials has a way of coming at us to tempt us to sin ( the storms of life ) for why we need His help to lift our gaze to Him to trust Him to carry us through it.

And there are two real differences between them (other than drinking only vs sinning itself). Firstly the AA stated purpose and goal is to stop drinking altogether as a real possibility in this life. In 'AA' Christian churches, that is never put forth as a goal nor even possibility.

Possibly to explain away why that habitual sin always seem to be cropping up so believers will not quit, but scripture does say that sin will not have dominion over our lives as Christ in us will overcome any tribulation that comes our way since He did overcome the world.

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

However, if they are trying to overcome sin by religiously keeping that commitment to Christ, they will fail until they learn to rely on Him all the time and to trust him to do His work in us to His glory, thereby getting to know Him & the power of His resurrection...

 

[ChristB4us]

Secondly, AA members do not say people are born alcoholics, but only make themselves alcoholics by drunkenness without power to stop. Some AA Christians actually preach their sinning from cradle to grave, as though Christ sinfully makes people that way from the womb.

Christ does not make sinners in the womb, nor in this life, but rather we make ourselves sinners by sinning against Christ. Jesus Christ only takes our sins away, and never puts it in us to do so.

We are to live as His disciples, trusting Jesus Christ to do His work in us; we are to look to Him daily to help us lay aside every weight ( provision for the flesh ) as well as the sin in walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

1 John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. 5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

1 John 2:1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Sometimes the devil succeeds in making us fall into sin but Jesus Christ is in us and with us always to raise us back up out of it and learn from that fall so as to avoid whatever provided for that temptation to come be it the company we keep, what we entertain ourselves by, or just plain lack of reading His words daily to help lift our eyes to Him in trusting Him to prepare us & guide us for the day ahead.

 

[ChristB4us]

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death

That is the consequence for sowing to the works of the flesh which is reaping corruption, but while there is still life and if the one realizes his or her mistake as that sin seems to have dominion over them again, Jesus is still waiting for them to call on Him to help them overcome sin, and on a daily basis too, even with those abstaining from sexual sins like masturbation, fornication, adultery, lasciviousness which is sexual excessiveness, & idolatry which pornography can fall under as the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eye, & the pride of life is of the world and the Love of the Father is not in them;

1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication ( sex before marriage ), uncleanness ( masturbation ), lasciviousness ( sexual excessiveness ), 20 Idolatry ( pornography ), witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Saved believers that do not repent of these sinful lifestyles with His help before the Bridegroom comes, are at risk of being left behind at the rapture. God has warned us that those who continue to live in sin will reap corruption & may not want to repent.

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. 9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. 10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. 22 And of some have compassion, making a difference: 23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. 24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

There is an eternal glory of being that vessel unto honor in His House that comes with our salvation in Christ Jesus for why we are to call even former believers to go to Jesus for help to see the truth in His words and repent just as we are to call believers living in sin to go to Jesus for help to see the truth in His words for their need for help to depart from sin, because they risk being left behind at the rapture event.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

With the way American society is normalizing sin and the churches are compromising to that effect, is why believers as led by Him, should call former believers as well as professing believers living in sin to go to Jesus Christ for help to see the lies and the sins so they can see their need for Him to deliver them from their sins daily and to walk in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son so they may be ready as found abiding in Him when the Bridegroom comes.

 

[Josheb]

When you quote any point I make, and show any error in it from the verses I give, then I'd be glad to see it.

In the meantime, "You're wrong, because I don't like it" doesn't cut it.

And making childish accusations, because something doesn't agree with your conscience, is typical for some immature belly-aching Christians here.

Fail.

You could answer the question asked, "Why did you join the forum?" regardless of all else that was posted, and doing so would help everyone reading your posts better understand your posts because they'd then understand their context and purpose. You'd be helping yourself, too, not just others.


Why did you join the forum?

 

[Ghada]

Since you agree with the AA comparison, then we can move on to other topics you give.

Matthew 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20 These are the things which defile a man:

We are to follow Him by faith that He is our Good Shepherd & Friend. That means denying ourselves as able as if power comes from us by keeping that commitment in following him, but to pick up the cross daily as it is not we who live, but Christ in us, and so that is how we are following Him by faith when we are trusting Him as our Good Shepherd & Friend to help us to follow Him for we can do nothing without Him.

I don't see any connection between your stated verses and your 'explanation' afterward.

In any case, your gospel is denying the power of God given to us, and making us able through His Spirit to cleanse and keep ourselves clean.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever

We are given God's faith and power of His Spirit to do exactly what some Christians say is impossible to do, which is to go and sin no more.

And the reasons are obvious: They do not first repent of all their sins and trespasses, and so they are not given the promised NT pure heart and clean life of Christ, in order to believe in doing His righteousness at all times, in the first place.

They do idolize Jesus' life on earth of not sinning, but in no way believe in walking as Him and sinning not like Him in this life.

They really should not tale after the rudiments in the world.

Should not and do not are two entirely different things. When it comes to being justified by our works, it's not about a new 'mindset' about sin and death. It's about a new heart repenting from sinning and pleasing God at all times, just like Jesus.

Colossians 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Some sinners that get saved, have experienced deliverance from alcoholism or other types of habitual sins and are never bothered by any temptations towards that regard ever again. Some have experienced deliverance and yet find on occasions of their need for Jesus to keep them from it.

True. That is the gospel I preach from the Bible, for them that have repented from sins and trespasses, and now have faith and power of God to

Some are saved and still finding problem with a certain sin everyday for which they need to look to Jesus Christ daily to help them lay aside ever weight & sin in walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son.

This is a gospel of unrepented hearing only double heartedness, where the mind is changed about sinning, but the heart is not changed from sinning. It's a more wretched state then them not naming Christ at all and continue enjoying their sinning.

Both are in need of repenting of sins and trespasses, else they will be sinning unto death, but the hearers only hate it, while the others still love it.

Of course, there's no hope of being a newborn Christian saint in Christ Jesus, in the first two cases you mention, if they believe the lie that double heartedness sinning against God is somehow included in His justified household. What need to repent of we deceive ourselves into believing in our minds for the resurrection unto life, while knowing in our hearts we still sinning like the world, only less gladly?

By not believing such delusion, I was able at one time to repent of all my sinning (and not just some), so as to be delivered from the wretchedness of the double minded man of Romans 7. I can only thank Jesus Christ for giving such power to move on to be a doer of the word from the heart, and no more just a hearer only. So as to receive the promised perfecting of the uncondemned Christian of Romans 8, where we now walk only after the Spirit, and no more after the flesh.

It is not unheard of for a saved believer to find himself or herself facing fiery trials in their walks with the Lord, but with Jesus Christ in us and with us always, we can have confidence in Him to overcome any sin or fiery trial that comes our way in life; yea, even carry us through.

This is absolutely true for the growing pangs of the repented Christian saint. It's learning the power of God to continue obeying Him unto the end, through any and all temptations, persecutions, and tribulations, just like Jesus did through the cross itself unto death.

However, those falling to the temptations and the sins of the devil are only bastardizing their faith, and forsaking their sonship of inheritance. (If they ever were repented sons in the first place) They are only learning to fail as sinners, not to grow as saints.

The beginning in Christ is with a new pure heart and blameless life, and continuing in Him to grow in His grace and righteousness, is to keep ours hearts pure and lives blameless through all the trials of our faith.

As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
We know that whosoever is born of God is not sinning; but he that is begotten of God is keeping himself, and that wicked one is touching him not.

Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that are keeping the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:... 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Exactly, if we continue in our new faith of Jesus, purity of heart, and holiness of life, and do not repent of having repented from all our past transgressions.

For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Other than your gospel's inclusion of ongoing sinners saved and justified in the body of Christ, we have similarities of doctrine. I do not include such salvation by faith of mind only, while sinning with the devil. Not for myself, and so I don't preach it to others.

Nor do I preach anything from the Bible saying we must always call ourselves AA Christian sinners, and making it impossible to cease sinning altogether. (Which the world's AA doesn't even promote pertaining to drinking alcohol)

 

[Ghada]

Why did you join the forum?

Certainly not to waste my time looking to see why someone like you is ringing my bell.

Either agree with what I teach, or show an error in any point of my teaching, or move on. Otherwise, I'll report you for trolling to no purpose.

 

[ChristB4us]

Since you agree with the AA comparison, then we can move on to other topics you give.

If so...

I don't see any connection between your stated verses and your 'explanation' afterward.

Then I fail to see why you do not see the connection, and so maybe we are not quite on the same page somewhere.

In any case, your gospel is denying the power of God given to us, and making us able through His Spirit to cleanse and keep ourselves clean.

No. I am denying ourselves as able to follow Him religiously as if by keeping a commitment or a promise but rather by faith in Jesus Christ because He has given us power to follow Him when we trust him as our Good Shepherd to do this..

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever

We are given God's faith and power of His Spirit to do exactly what some Christians say is impossible to do, which is to go and sin no more.

That is what I am sharing is my faith in Jesus Christ, however, a believer's commitment voids faith in Him to do this because a believer's commitment is telling God and men that they are going to do it by keeping that commitment. See the error of the AA? A Christian cannot follow after the religious rudiment in the world if they wish the religious to see their faith in Jesus Christ for all things.

And the reasons are obvious: They do not first repent of all their sins and trespasses, and so they are not given the promised NT pure heart and clean life of Christ, in order to believe in doing His righteousness at all times, in the first place.

Can you show a scriptural reference given where the disciples talks about all that is sin before presenting the gospel for them to repent of?

In today's world, the world rationalizes and normalizes sin and the church is compromising with social values to do this also. This is a danger to saved believers as well since Peter did warn us about them.

2 Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

So no, You cannot say they were not saved, but they are still called to go to Jesus for the truth in His words to see the lies and to lean on Him for help to depart from iniquity so they too can obtain that eternal glory that comes with our salvation and that is to be that vessel unto honor in His House at the pre great tribulation rapture event when Christ comes as the Bridegroom to judge His House first.

 

[ChristB4us]

They do idolize Jesus' life on earth of not sinning, but in no way believe in walking as Him and sinning not like Him in this life.

A lot of religious Christians quit after finding keeping that commitment to follow Christ because it is too hard for them to do.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Some may even say something close to the truth for not realizing that was not how Jesus wanted them to follow Him and that is by them saying, "What good is Jesus then?" The moment He helps them to realize that they were not relying on Him all the time for following Him when instead they are looking to themselves in doing the best they can in keeping their commitment because it is their commitment to do it, they may finally ask Jesus to set them free from that vain commitment and help them to rest in Him in His commitment to us to follow Him.

Jesus has set me free from laboring in unbelief by resting in Him as saved and resting in Him to help me to follow Him as my confidence is in Him to finish His work in me thus He is the power that enables me to follow Him when I trust Him as my Good Shepherd to do this..

Galatians 3:1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh

Galatians 5:1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.... 5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:... 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

He does a better job when I trust Him to do it than my looking to myself in doing the best I can in making Jesus Lord of my life by keeping such a vain commitment. That is how I get to know Him & the power of His resurrection when I am following Him better by faith.

Should not and do not are two entirely different things. When it comes to being justified by our works, it's not about a new 'mindset' about sin and death. It's about a new heart repenting from sinning and pleasing God at all times, just like Jesus.

That is His work. He will turn ungodliness from us. A depraved sinner cannot see it in himself or herself to do it. Some have tried on their own to quit and find they are unable to because no matter how much the spirit is willing, the flesh is weak therefore what is impossible with man, is possible with God when we trust Jesus Christ at His word to do this.

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.... 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Anybody that looks at their heart will say that God has to give them that new heart. All they need to do is call on Jesus to do this.

 

[ChristB4us]

True. That is the gospel I preach from the Bible, for them that have repented from sins and trespasses, and now have faith and power of God to

Look at what the gospel Paul did preach; Look for any call to repent from sins in that gospel below;

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

That is the gospel Paul preached. Was he negligent? Or maybe you are conflating the call of the gospel with discipleship?

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The gospel is about Jesus Christ for why believing in Him is how we are saved.

Not every saved believer will follow Him as His disciple, but they are still saved but at risk of being denied by the Bridegroom when He comes unless they live that reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ daily by walking in the light in fellowship with the father & the Son, looking to Jesus to help them lay said every weight & sin daily. That is what the race is about; not for obtaining salvation but for the high prize of our calling to be partakers of the firstfruits of the resurrection at the pre great tribulation rapture to sit at the Marriage Supper in Heaven

 

[ChristB4us]

This is a gospel of unrepented hearing only double heartedness, where the mind is changed about sinning, but the heart is not changed from sinning. It's a more wretched state then them not naming Christ at all and continue enjoying their sinning.

Both are in need of repenting of sins and trespasses, else they will be sinning unto death, but the hearers only hate it, while the others still love it.

Of course, there's no hope of being a newborn Christian saint in Christ Jesus, in the first two cases you mention, if they believe the lie that double heartedness sinning against God is somehow included in His justified household. What need to repent of we deceive ourselves into believing in our minds for the resurrection unto life, while knowing in our hearts we still sinning like the world, only less gladly?

By not believing such delusion, I was able at one time to repent of all my sinning (and not just some), so as to be delivered from the wretchedness of the double minded man of Romans 7. I can only thank Jesus Christ for giving such power to move on to be a doer of the word from the heart, and no more just a hearer only. So as to receive the promised perfecting of the uncondemned Christian of Romans 8, where we now walk only after the Spirit, and no more after the flesh.

I am not talking about those who rationalize sin to live in sin, or say it is not a sin, but I am addressing those who recognize that they still have temptations for why they need Jesus Christ everyday for help in following Him. There is no need for condemnation of that sort.

Indeed, with the world and the compromising church rationalizing sin and normalizing sin, we are to correct one another with Christ's love by showing the scripture of their need for Jesus Christ to help them to repent of those sins.

But as to those that need Jesus daily for help, Peter acknowledges the struggle & the afflictions for believers everyday.

1 Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; 2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: 13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy. 14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. 15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters. 16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. 17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

James did too.

James 5:9 Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door. 10 Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience. 11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy. 12 But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.

That is speaking against a believer's commitment also and the Promise Keepers' program too. It is by that commitment and those promises that the believer will be judged by that letter of the law in oath keeping.

Believers can ask Jesus to set them free and for help to rest in Him that He will do His work in them; he will help them to follow Him.

As for fiery trial, since He is in us and with us always, we can place our confidence in Him to carry us even & He will.

So if you ever faced a time where you are being overwhelmed by the storms of this life, and find yourself sinning, do not condemn yourself and give up. Go to Jesus Christ to deliver you out of that snare to a quiet place in your storm Whom is Jesus Christ the Lord, our refuge.

 

[ChristB4us]

This is absolutely true for the growing pangs of the repented Christian saint. It's learning the power of God to continue obeying Him unto the end, through any and all temptations, persecutions, and tribulations, just like Jesus did through the cross itself unto death.

However, those falling to the temptations and the sins of the devil are only bastardizing their faith, and forsaking their sonship of inheritance. (If they ever were repented sons in the first place) They are only learning to fail as sinners, not to grow as saints.

We are warned not to despise the little ones that go astray; hence babes in Christ are new believers not grounded in the words yet. Do not judge in the manner that would give you or anyone else an excuse not to correct them in Christ's love.

Matthew 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. 11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

The beginning in Christ is with a new pure heart and blameless life, and continuing in Him to grow in His grace and righteousness, is to keep ours hearts pure and lives blameless through all the trials of our faith.

As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
We know that whosoever is born of God is not sinning; but he that is begotten of God is keeping himself, and that wicked one is touching him not.

Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that are keeping the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

How do you keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus Christ? By doing the best you can by keeping a commitment? How is that working out for you? Able to do it perfectly?

Or are you applying your faith in Jesus Christ by trusting Him as your Good Shepherd to help you abide in His words in following Him?

You cannot do both. It i either by keeping your commitment saying to God and men you are going to do it or you are testifying of your faith in Jesus Christ to all that He will do it; He will help you to follow Him.

 

[ChristB4us]

Exactly, if we continue in our new faith of Jesus, purity of heart, and holiness of life, and do not repent of having repented from all our past transgressions.

For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Makes me wonder why James warned any of us believers in this wise unless it is possible for one to g astray.

James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. 13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. 16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. 18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. 19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: 20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

 

[ChristB4us]

Other than your gospel's inclusion of ongoing sinners saved and justified in the body of Christ, we have similarities of doctrine. I do not include such salvation by faith of mind only, while sinning with the devil. Not for myself, and so I don't preach it to others.

Since Jesus will be judging His House first at the pre great tribulation rapture event, for why ongoing saved believers living in unrepentant sins or religious works of iniquity that denies Him will be left behind to die, & receiving stripes per the knowledge they had for not being ready and lesser stripes for the lack of knowledge they had, but stripes are coming ( Luke 12:40-49 ), so that they may be partakers of His holiness ( Hebrews 12:3-11 ), to be resurrected after the great tribulation, they should go to Jesus now for help to repent now to avoid that weeping and gnashing of teeth over the loss of that first inheritance at the pre great tribulation rapture event when God will judge His House first

Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. 41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. 49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

Read what happens to those that do not run that race by looking to Jesus Christ daily to help them lay aside every weight & sin but they do not even resist sin....

Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. 4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. 5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. 11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

And the loss and the severity of the punishment will be felt for why God has to wipe the tears from those eyes of those coming out of the great tribulation.

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Nor do I preach anything from the Bible saying we must always call ourselves AA Christian sinners, and making it impossible to cease sinning altogether. (Which the world's AA doesn't even promote pertaining to drinking alcohol)

Although no Christian should be identifying with the religious rudiments of commitments in the AA or NA , scripture does not preach a pipe dream as if no believer going through any fiery trial or any temptations whatsoever, but Jesus will help us through them when we place our trust In Him to do this.

This is why in Heaven those crowned by Him will cast their crowns at His feet because those crowns are His achievements in us. We are the works of His hands for which we will give Him all the glory, praise and thanksgiving to the father & to the Son in Jesus's name. Amen.

James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. 13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. 16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. 18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. 19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: 20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

 

[Ghada]

Not sure what you mean by that last comment there, because either way, a believer's commitment is denying Him as the power for following him by faith when they resort to their own power by following him by keeping that commitment.

A rather fine example of sophistry.

So, we deny the power of Christ by keeping our commitment to Him...

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that are keeping the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
How about denying Christ by works, while claiming His power alone to do so?

Or keeping one's commitment to sinning, is not by the faith of Jesus nor the power of God?

Just sharing why Christians should not make that comparison in the first place for why I am agreeing with you on that point, les they validate how religious Christians are living these days by doing the best they can by their will power in keeping that commitment.

Keeping the faith of Jesus and His commandments, is not the error of doing one's own righteousness.

Once again, you avoid the original analogy to AA and Committed Christian sinners. It's not about will power and power of God, but about the commitment to calling oneself a sinner for life, and doing it unto the grave.

1 Timothy 1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

How do you apply the red of Paul's words? Is that referring to his current state or not?

Your Paul of your Christ, is not the apostle Paul of Jesus Christ.

I don't doubt you have a chiefest of sinners for your personal example, but the Paul I follow was the chiefest example of being delivered from such woeful sinning of his past.

You and your Paul and Christ may indeed be still destroying the faith and persecuting the righteous Christians, but not me nor my Paul nor my Christ.

Possibly to explain away why that habitual sin always seem to be cropping up so believers will not quit,

Simple unrepented double heartedness. Your gospel of changing the mind about sinning, but not the heart from sinning.

but scripture does say that sin will not have dominion over our lives as Christ in us will overcome any tribulation that comes our way since He did overcome the world.

Sin has no dominion over them not sinning. Sin has complete dominion over them sinning.

Declaring sin has no dominion over them sinning, is just another slippery version of saying God does not judge nor condemn them while sinning.

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

However, if they are trying to overcome sin by religiously keeping that commitment to Christ, they will fail until they learn to rely on Him all the time and to trust him to do His work in us to His glory, thereby getting to know Him & the power of His resurrection...

You mean not keeping His commandments, and searing the conscience to the convicting Spirit of grace.

Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

I grant your mastery of hiding your continued sinning beneath shining words. Your pretty speeches would be true, if not for covering continued sinning unto death.

The lie of being forgiven of all present and future sins, demands the conscience reject any conviction for sinning, that should lead to being forgiven by Christ.

 

[Ghada]

We are to live as His disciples, trusting Jesus Christ to do His work in us;

Not while sinning. The only disciples while sinning or those of the devil.

Sometimes the devil succeeds in making us fall into sin

Can't blame the devil for being a willing disciple of the devil.

but Jesus Christ is in us and with us always to raise us back up out of it and learn from that fall

Discipleship of Jesus is learning not to sin, once repented of sinning.

There is no guarantee God will draw us back to repentance, if we fall to discipling for the devil again.

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections

so as to avoid whatever provided for that temptation to come be it the company we keep, what we entertain ourselves by, or just plain lack of reading His words daily to help lift our eyes to Him in trusting Him to prepare us & guide us for the day ahead.

True. Only faithful disciples of Jesus Christ make no provision of falling to temptation.

Only the faithful disciples of the devil fall to temptation instead.

No man is a born son of God and disciple of Jesus Christ, while sinning and discipling for the devil.

If we sin, and we are drawn of God unto repentance, then we can come with godly sorrow to the Advocate for the world, to be forgiven, reconciled to God and walk uprightly with Jesus as His disciple.

You preach sinning with your Christ, and I preach sinning without Jesus Christ.