Is the Devil using LGBTQ to destroy christian churches?

[Hobie]

I heard this and was amazed, I could not grasp what was happening, till I came across this..'

A quarter of Methodist congregations in the U.S. are leaving the United Methodist Church as one of the country's largest Protestant denominations wrestles with issues of sexuality and gender identity.

More than 7,600 of United Methodist’s approximately 30,000 congregations had voted to leave as of this week, and the number could grow as the Dec. 31 deadline for departures approaches.

“It’s the biggest schism in any American denomination in the history of our country,” said Ryan Burge, an associate professor of political science at Eastern Illinois University in Charleston....

What's at issue?
Controversies have been brewing within the church for several decades, particularly those dealing with LGBTQ+ issues, Wilson said.

Progressive factions within the church, he said, want to overhaul church teachings to, for instance, permit same-sex marriages and allow the ordination of gay clergy....'
..https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/12/20/methodist-church-lgbtq-issues-prompt-mass-exodus-as-deadline-nears/71964830007/

A quarter of United Methodist churches in U.S. have left during split

United Methodist churches had a five-year window to leave the denomination over disputes involving its bans on same-sex marriage and ordaining LGBTQ persons.

www.pbs.org

With a Deadline Looming, the United Methodist Church Breaks Up

A quarter of the denomination’s churches have left, as the faith divides over L.G.B.T.Q. policies.

www.nytimes.com

 

[jeremiah1five]

Illicit sex is the culprit, whether homosexual or fornication among Gentile Christians.
The spirit of Jezebel reigns in Gentile churches. She is queen still in these fellowships throughout the world.
But God will handle it. He has sent a STRONG delusion that they, Constantinian Gentile Christians will believe not one, but many lies. The world must increase and the Holy Spirit of power decreases.

 

[EarlyActs]

Which fraction accepted new views of deviant sexuality, 1/4 or 3/4?

 

[Frank Robert]

Which fraction accepted new views of deviant sexuality, 1/4 or 3/4?

List of Christian denominations affirming LGBT people.​

You will find many denominations believe that homosexuality is unnatural while many others believe that it is a natural and inherent aspect of human and animal behavior. Research has shown that same-sex behaviors and homosexuality are present in a wide range of animal species and human cultures, indicating that it is not unique to humans and is, therefore, a natural phenomenon and many studies have identified genetic components and prenatal influences that contribute to sexual orientation, further supporting the view that homosexuality has a natural basis.

 

[Fred]

You will find many denominations believe that homosexuality is unnatural while many others believe that it is a natural and inherent aspect of human and animal behavior. Research has shown that same-sex behaviors and homosexuality are present in a wide range of animal species and human cultures, indicating that it is not unique to humans and is, therefore, a natural phenomenon and many studies have identified genetic components and prenatal influences that contribute to sexual orientation, further supporting the view that homosexuality has a natural basis.

Human beings are not animals.

 

[Frank Robert]

Human beings are not animals.

What is the definition of an animal?

The definition of an animal can be understood from a scientific and colloquial perspective. Scientifically, an animal is any living organism classified within the kingdom Animalia, characterized by being multicellular, eukaryotic, and heterotrophic, and possessing the ability for spontaneous movement and rapid motor responses to stimulation. This includes a wide range of organisms, from many-celled to single-celled ones, and encompasses a variety of species such as mammals, birds, fish, insects, and reptiles. Colloquially, the term "animal" is often used to refer to nonhuman animals, distinguishing them from human beings. Therefore, both scientifically and in common language, animals encompass a diverse array of living creatures, including humans.​

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Of course, out of the thousands of Christian denominations there are those with different opinions which is fine but it does not effect evolutionary science that we do share a common ape ancestor with chimpanzees. It lived between 8 and 6 million years ago. But humans and chimpanzees evolved differently from that same ancestor.

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[Fred]

The definition of an animal can be understood from a scientific and colloquial perspective.

Wrong starting point.
Anything that doesn't start from the Bible is wrong.

 

[Frank Robert]

Wrong starting point.
Anything that doesn't start from the Bible is wrong.

I provided a scientific definition because not all Christians interpret the Bible's creation account in the same way, and there are varying perspectives on how it relates to the theory of evolution.

If you want to start an OP on the different theological and scientific interpretations within the Christian community be my guest. If you do don't expect anyone in particular to participate.

 

[Fred]

I provided a scientific definition

Which is to be rejected because human beings are not animals.

 

[Frank Robert]

Which is to be rejected because human beings are not animals.

Of course you can personally reject the science.

As I explained many times there are thousands of Christian denominations and it's important to note that not all Christians interpret the Bible's creation account in the same way, and there are varying perspectives on how it relates to the theory of evolution.

You can reach for further understanding at BioLogos.org where the debate reflects different theological and scientific interpretations within the Christian community.

 

[Fred]

Of course you can personally reject the science.

Science that contradicts the Bible is not science.

the theory of evolution.

It's not even a theory, but a hypothesis.

You can reach for further understanding at BioLogos.org where the debate reflects different theological and scientific interpretations within the Christian community.

Not wasting my time.

 

[Frank Robert]

Science that contradicts the Bible is not science.

That is according to your beliefs. You are entitled to believe whatever you want and to reject the science. Most Christians do not share your beliefs

It's not even a theory, but a hypothesis.

You have been misinformed.

The claim that evolution is not even a theory, but a hypothesis, is a misconception. Evolution is both a fact and a well-supported scientific theory, as defined by the scientific community. It is not based on faith or arbitrary systems, but on empirical evidence and the scientific method.

If you have evidence otherwise then let's hear it. By now you should be aware that an uniformed opinion is not evidence.
.

Not wasting my time.

Repeating the same thing over and over without any evidence is a waste of time. Even more so after you have been repeatedly corrected.

 

[Fred]

That is according to your beliefs. You are entitled to believe whatever you want and to reject the science.

You can believe the fake science if you want.

Most Christians do not share your beliefs

Irrelevant.

You have been misinformed.

No proof for that.

The claim that evolution is not even a theory, but a hypothesis, is a misconception. Evolution is both a fact

Not one example of a species becoming something else.

 

[Frank Robert]

You can believe the fake science if you want.

You are the one making the claim that it is fake. Produce the evidence that it is fake or admit you are wrong.

Irrelevant.

What is irrelevant about pointing out the FACT that different denominations have different opinions and beliefs. Again when you make a claim you need to show evidence otherwise your opinion is worthless.

No proof for that.

The proof is that you continuously fail to produce any evidence.

Not one example of a species becoming something else.

Once again you are demonstrating your lack of knowledge. Creationist make many such claims without evidence. Such statements are mostly built from religious opinions which have no way that they can be substantiated. You do not appear to understand that science and religion are two different domains. Most Christian denominations are comfortable with science and evolution. It is mainly the creationist and fundamentalist denominations who have a problem with evolution.

Your claim that "Not one example of a species becoming something else" is a common misunderstanding of the process of evolution. Evolution, particularly macroevolution, involves the divergence of species from a common ancestor and the development of new traits and characteristics over time. This process can lead to the formation of distinct species. The biological species concept defines a species as a group of individuals that can interbreed to produce viable, fertile offspring. Speciation, which is the formation of new species, occurs when one species diverges into multiple descendant species.

Divergent evolution and convergent evolution are two types of macroevolution. Divergent evolution occurs when two separate species evolve differently from a common ancestor, leading to speciation. For example, Darwin's finches are a well-known example of divergent evolution, where different species of finches evolved distinct beak shapes and sizes to adapt to different food sources.

Convergent evolution, on the other hand, occurs when unrelated species independently evolve similar traits or characteristics due to similar environmental pressures. This can lead to the development of analogous structures in different species, such as the streamlined body shape evolved by dolphins, sharks, and ichthyosaurs for efficient swimming.

Therefore, the claim that no examples exist of a species becoming something else is not accurate. The concepts of divergent and convergent evolution provide clear evidence of how new species with distinct characteristics can emerge from common ancestors or unrelated lineages, respectively

The above is high from school biology usually taught in the 10th grade. If you have evidence to refute any of the above then share it. If not at least admit it is from a religious opinion or belief.

 

[Fred]

You are the one making the claim that it is fake. Produce the evidence that it is fake or admit you are wrong.

already did.

 

[Fred]

List of Christian denominations affirming LGBT people.​

You will find many denominations believe that homosexuality is unnatural while many others believe that it is a natural and inherent aspect of human and animal behavior. Research has shown that same-sex behaviors and homosexuality are present in a wide range of animal species and human cultures, indicating that it is not unique to humans and is, therefore, a natural phenomenon and many studies have identified genetic components and prenatal influences that contribute to sexual orientation, further supporting the view that homosexuality has a natural basis.

According to 1 Corinthians 6:9 this homosexuality is a sin.

 

[Josheb]

Is the Devil Using LGBTQ to Destroy Christian Churches?

I'm inclined to say no.


The chief reason I am inclined to say this is because the Devil, or Satan, is a defeated enemy, the New Testament places more onus, responsibility, accountability and culpability on the sinful flesh, and incorrectly attributing societal problems like this one over-spiritualizes the problem and creates red herrings, thereby inclining the Church to exhaust its energies fruitlessly. One of the most basic principles in medical/psychological treatment is proper diagnosis leads to proper treatment, and the opposite is just as true. Interpreting an xray of a lung with a blur on it as potentially metastatic cancer when the blur is just a benign cyst can lead to unnecessary death. I see no reason why the same principle do not apply here. Satan would be just as glad to see the Church self-destruct as he would be to see that occur at his own hand. From his perspective the outcome is identical.

I'm also inclined to say no because, as far as scripture goes, the Church is the body of Christ, the temple of God and that is never at risk of not existing. Over the centuries Christian ecclesiology has held that the Church, as God's creation, the scriptural building built by the hands of God and not a building or temple built by human hands, an as such it is God, not humans, who is responsible for its existence, quality, influence, purity, and power. I have long thought this neglected and often abused lesser doctrine is one in which more Christians should be educated because if they were that might lead to 1) a more authentic, consistent, and effective corporate experience, 2) insulation from harbingers of doom, and 3) less sectarianism.

That being said, the Church has always been a very messy place. Despite the doctrine of impeccability applied to both Christ and Christ's body, the Church, scripture makes it clear the Church is imperfect and therefore impure. It is only God/Christ that makes anything in and of the Church pure or impeccable. This is self-evident from reading the epistolary, especially the letters to Corinth and Ephesus (two very, very messy sets of congregations). Most of you know I attribute much of our current intra-Church condition to the rise of Dispensationalism. The introduction of that theology, especially its overt reversal of Christology and soteriology as the Church's preeminent doctrines in favor of ecclesiology and eschatology (and the Dispensational versions of those doctrines) has led to a huge theological division in Protestantism wherein one third of the Church is brought up in one theology and another third brought up in a completely different and largely irreconcilable theology. Both have problems with LGBTQism. Dispensationalism (and the restoration movement in which Dispensationalism arose) has caused an explosion of Church-fragmenting sectarianism that makes the Protestant Reformation look like an amateur-level trial run.

The answer lies in individual and corporate prayer in submission to God's working in His Church, and corporate accountability whereby on the institutional level doctrines are re-examined for the purpose of (re)gaining scriptural integrity and on all the levels (individual, local, institutional, etc.) Church discipling and Church discipline as practiced. I have little doubt there were homosexuals, asexuals, pansexuals, etc., that followed Jesus in the first century and he knew it and who they were. Their existence in the Church is not the problem. The Church's failure to simultaneously invite those converts into a Christ-centered life while maintaining scriptural standards is the problem, and that is not on Satan. That's on us.

 

[Frank Robert]

already did.

Where is the evidence for you species claim?

 

[Fred]

Where is the evidence for you species claim?

You are the one who made the claim about the evolutionary hypothesis.

Where are the transitional forms between species?

Where are the transitional forms between non-invertebrates and invertebrates?

 

[Frank Robert]

According to 1 Corinthians 6:9 this homosexuality is a sin.

That is your interpretations. There are an estimated ~40,000 denominations many of which disagree with your interpretation.

I make it a habit not to deny anyone's belief or interpretation, but I do point out there are multiple interpretations among the denominations.

A Catholic apologist, whose name I do not recall pointed out the the idea of everyone interpreting the bible themselves is like have 6000 popes.