Is Sound Doctrine Essential for Salvation?

[ChristB4us]

We have people that think that all they have to do is be a part of Christian church or show up once a week to listen to the preacher and they are good, no matter what they teach. And its clear that without a proper understanding of doctrine and a knowledge of the Gospel in God’s Word, faith can be sidetracked or weakened. Just look at how the Jews thought that the Messiah was going to set up a kingdom to overthrow the Roman rule, and it was so ingrained that it took a while to clear it from even the disciples views. I have come across denominations which just about every one of its churchs has a different idea of what doctrine they get from the Bible depending on the preacher, and so what end up happening is you just keep shifting till you find one that fits your lifestyle, with no real change. Is that what Jesus put forth. We see the most basic elements at the start of Christs ministry...

Matthew 3:2
And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Matthew 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

So what is needed?

For salvation; believe in the Lord Jesus Christ & that God has raised Him from the dead and thou shalt be saved.

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Jesus said it first;

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

But not every saved believer will desire to follow Jesus by abiding in Him and His words by not living in sin to be fruitful as His disciples.

John 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him. 31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? 34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. 36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Discipleship is separate from salvation for why those who get excommunicated by the Bridegroom at the pre great tribulation rapture event when God judges His House first, they are still saved, but they shall become vessels unto dishonor in His House, vessels of wood and earth, but still in His House for not departing from Iniquity.

John 15:1-8 KJV <---- Note the excommunication in verse 6.

Luke 12:40-49 KJV <---- Note verse 49 as this fire is the one He will send on earth those that get cast away for not being ready. And yet note how those left behind for not being ready are still addressed as His servants as they will get stripes per the knowledge they had for not being ready and lesser stripes for lack of knowledge, but stripes His servants will get.

Hebrews 12:1-11 KJV <---- Note verse 6 about the father scourging ( whipping ) every child He receives and why in verse 10.

1 Corinthians 3:10-17 KJV<---- Note how that foundation remains as that seal of adoption is sure Ephesians 4:30 KJV , but the works that defile that Temple of God is burned up and although the physical body is destroyed ( death ) in verses 16-17 the spirit is still saved in verse 15.

2 Timothy 2:10-13,18-21 KJV This is why we are to call even former believers to go to Jesus for help to see the truth and to depart from iniquity so they too can obtain that "eternal glory" in being that vessel unto honor in His House at the pre great tribulation rapture event.

So by the example of how He still abides even in former believers that would deny Hi for why He would deny them, yet He still abides for He is faithful as He will continue His work in those, even if they get left behind for He shall lose none of all the Father has given Him.

Jesus Christ is that Good Shepherd and He will get that lost sheep that did not trust Him as their personal Good Shepherd & Friend to understand & heed His words to follow Him as His disciples in living that reconciled relationship with God the Father through Jesus Christ.

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. 4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

So there is a fold that follows Him by faith as their Good Shepherd & Friend and there is a fold that follow a stranger's voice that was led astray but they are His sheep for why He must bring them.

Believing in Jesus Christ as Our Saviour is salvation; But now reconciled, we need His help to trust Him as our Good Shepherd to help us to follow Him by abiding in His words as His disciples if we wish to be saved from in these latter days from that fiery calamity is coming on the third of the earth.

That is what Peter was exhorting believers to do in enduring to the end to be saved from; that fiery calamity that is coming on earth.

2 Peter 3:3-15 KJV <----- Last statement can be confirmed at that link.

 

[Josheb]

Is sound doctrine essential for salvation?

Yes.

However, the question itself is a bit misguided. If I were to ask, "Is a sound understanding of all Christian doctrine necessary prior to, or in order for a person dead in sin to be saved from the dead and enslaving sin and commensurate wrath of God?" the answer would be "No!" However, if I word to modify that sentence with the change of only one word, "Is a sound understanding of all Christian doctrine necessary prior to, or in order for a person dead in sin to be saved from the dead and enslaving sin and commensurate wrath of God?" then the answer would be "Yes!" The reason second question must be answered in the affirmative is because belief in something that does not exist does not save anyone from anything. If Joe, an atheist, changes to believe in a three-horned yellow-striped, purple polka-dotted minotaur from Alpha Centauri for his salvation then he is just as lost after his change in belief as he was prior to his profession of the new belief.

The object of one's belief must have some correlation to what actually exists.

Therefore, having a correct understand of who/what is actually Jesus (a sound Christology) must exist. At least some semblance of a sound Christology is essential because believing in a Jesus that is different from the one preached in scripture does not save. This is very important because one of the hallmark features of cults is their redefinition of God, Jesus, humanity, or salvation. They use the same words but do so with entirely different definitions. The Jesus of orthodox, historical, mainstream Christianity is much different than the Jesus of the JWs, LDS, Rastafarians, Unification Church, Branch Davidians, and many, many others. Have you not heard? Ezra Miller is Jesus, and they are the Christ!

So the question asked correctly would be, "To what degree is sound doctrine essential for salvation?"

The fact for most Christians is that none of us fully understood what we were professing. Our profession was one of faith, not knowledge. The truth is, if were shown the true substance of our depravity we'd kill ourselves, and do so before bothering to care, ask, learn, or believe a salvation from the abyss that is us even exists. God, in His mercy, brought us to knowledge, understanding, faith and the faculties by which any of it might be held in an incremental way such that at the right time (His time) we were created in Christ. Once regenerate, indwelt, sanctified and made able to learn greater truth we did so. We continue to do so as we age - or at least we are supposed to do so because maturity and fruit bearing is the normal Christian life.

Hebrews 6:1-3
Therefore, leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment. And this we will do, if God permits.


Remember: All eleven of the eleven believed Jesus was the anointed one. Then they didn't (at least not more than an intellectual assent with which they could not persevere). Then they did. Even after seeing him walk through walls and being able to put their hands in his wounds they did not fully grasp who and what is Jesus. Jesus spent weeks teaching them and then literally bet them over the head with the Spirit at Pentecost - a crash course in Christology expressly so they could then go out and teach sound Christology to others. Remember also: the epistolary was written TO already-regenerate believers. The readers had already been saved. None of the doctrine contained in the epistolary was essential for their salvation. The doctrines contained in the epistolary is to ensure their vitality.

John 6:42
And they said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that He says, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”

Wrong doctrine. No salvation.

Luke 4:22
All spoke well of Him and marveled at the gracious words that came from His lips. "Isn't this the son of Joseph?" they asked.

Wrong doctrine. No salvation.

Matthew 24:23
Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘He is over here,’ do not believe him.

Wrong doctrine. No salvation.

1 John 4:2-3
By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

Wrong doctrine. No salvation.

Matthew 16:15-16
He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

Sound doctrine. Salvation possible.

John 1:29
The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!"

Sound doctrine. Salvation possible.

 

[A branch]

It seems to me the Gospel stands alone and was brought by Jesus and taught to his Apostles. It has nothing to do with the old laws given to the Fathers. Many do not see it that way though.

 

[ChristB4us]

It seems to me the Gospel stands alone and was brought by Jesus and taught to his Apostles. It has nothing to do with the old laws given to the Fathers. Many do not see it that way though.

The old laws were primarily based on these two greatest commandments.

Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

But now under the New Covenant where Jesus Christ is asking us to trust Him as our Good Shepherd & Friend to help us to follow Him...since loving our enemies is not a natural response for any one.

Matthew 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

So while His commandments are higher than the works of the law for dealing with the inside, our sinful nature, & our natural tendency, we can trust Him do His work in us to supply His love that we need to love our enemies.

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

That is why the first greatest commandment has been replaced by moving the emphasis on you to love God with all your heart, mind, souls, and strength TO believing the Lord Jesus Christ since we can only follow Him by faith that He will help us to follow Him by loving our enemies. This He will do in helping us to forgive them for they know not what they do just as the Lord has forgiven us..

1 John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Although discipleship is separate from salvation, nevertheless, we have been reconciled with the Father through Jesus Christ and not every saved believer will take advantage of that reconciled relationship of looking to Jesus Christ daily to help us lay aside every weight & sin to walk in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son. Those that do, shall get to know Him & the power of His resurrection but even then, we forget, and we trust Him to remind is of all the things He has helped us through to have confidence in Him that He will help us through our present trials.

Those that don't, but sow to the works of the flesh in reaping corruption or allow the cares of this life to make us lose sight of God, and value their treasures and their lives down here, will be at risk of being left behind at the pre great tribulation rapture event.

They are still saved but missed out on being partakers of the firstfruits of the resurrection; see post # 21 in this thread.

John 15:1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

Anyway, believing in the Lord Jesus Christ for all things is the first commandment now so we can rely on Him to help us love others, even our enemies. That is how we have hope and confidence for abiding in Him when we place that hope & confidence in Jesus Christ to do it.

 

[A branch]

The old laws were primarily based on these two greatest commandments.

Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

But now under the New Covenant where Jesus Christ is asking us to trust Him as our Good Shepherd & Friend to help us to follow Him...since loving our enemies is not a natural response for any one.

Matthew 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

So while His commandments are higher than the works of the law for dealing with the inside, our sinful nature, & our natural tendency, we can trust Him do His work in us to supply His love that we need to love our enemies.

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

That is why the first greatest commandment has been replaced by moving the emphasis on you to love God with all your heart, mind, souls, and strength TO believing the Lord Jesus Christ since we can only follow Him by faith that He will help us to follow Him by loving our enemies. This He will do in helping us to forgive them for they know not what they do just as the Lord has forgiven us..

1 John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Although discipleship is separate from salvation, nevertheless, we have been reconciled with the Father through Jesus Christ and not every saved believer will take advantage of that reconciled relationship of looking to Jesus Christ daily to help us lay aside every weight & sin to walk in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son. Those that do, shall get to know Him & the power of His resurrection but even then, we forget, and we trust Him to remind is of all the things He has helped us through to have confidence in Him that He will help us through our present trials.

Those that don't, but sow to the works of the flesh in reaping corruption or allow the cares of this life to make us lose sight of God, and value their treasures and their lives down here, will be at risk of being left behind at the pre great tribulation rapture event.

They are still saved but missed out on being partakers of the firstfruits of the resurrection; see post # 21 in this thread.

John 15:1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

Anyway, believing in the Lord Jesus Christ for all things is the first commandment now so we can rely on Him to help us love others, even our enemies. That is how we have hope and confidence for abiding in Him when we place that hope & confidence in Jesus Christ to do it.

Very good post we agree so far. I did read post 21 and pretty much agree with it. I would have liked to say the John 15 1-8 was stopped short. I feel a key verse is John 15:10.
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
To me this verse shows what is said in Matt 28:18
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Jesus has all power given him by the Father. If any part of the old law was to be transferred to the New Covenant Jesus would have spoken that specifically to the Jews and also to the Apostles. If the moral law or the ten commandments were to be part of the New Covenat surely in 3 years of teaching Jesus would have made it known to follow the old moral law or follow the old ten. He did not. He spoke the commanments He wanted us to follow. and It seems he showed us that in John 15:10. The doctrine of bringing the moral law and/or the Ten into the New covenant was not done by Jesus it is done by men and has no place in the New covenant imo.

 

[Mr GLee]

You are so confusing...

Faith is Human Trust in God, right?

Thanks for the reply.

Human trust coming from faithless dying mankind? Or the Faith of Christ according to his labor of love (let there be a new creation).?

The word faith is used in different manners (98 times) is always in respec of Christ .

Jesus was faithful in all his doing empowered by the faith of Christ that worked in the Son of man in order perform the will of the Father. (the source of power or faith )

That faithful power was lost in the garden Eden when mankind chose to do the will of god of this world. Mankind .. become faithless corrupted. No trust in God not seen this dark world. Under the power of the father of lies. No faith powerless

Mankind is reckoned in having no faith not little none that comes from hearing God.

In that way he gives us little of His faith. He is the storeroom of it. Little faith called the golden measure can cause a believer to grow working like in Peter, he said you must increase I with little faith must decrease. I would think he gives just enough of it for them to do his good will.

Deuteronomy 32:19-21King James Version19 And when the Lord saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters. And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith. They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

Six times New Testament the nick name "little faith" is used to emphasis not what some call faith of faithless men

Human faith looking to the temporal things seen goes as far as the eyes can see . Then the imagination of one own heart

 

[ChristB4us]

Very good post we agree so far. I did read post 21 and pretty much agree with it.

Feel free to ask any question for clarity, and God be willing, He shall use me to provide them, unless the Lord used somebody else.

I would have liked to say the John 15 1-8 was stopped short. I feel a key verse is John 15:10.
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
To me this verse shows what is said in Matt 28:18
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

I am not seeing the connection here; however, I do know in that chapter that He chose His disciples and so we did not choose Him.

John 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. 15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. 16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. 17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.

If you are referring to this truth, then I agree that by His power after having chosen us, He enables us to follow Him & His commandments.

By His grace & by His help, I can only hope in the Lord Jesus Christ that He has chosen me to choose Him because no saved believer can love Him unless he loved us first.

1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 19 We love him, because he first loved us. 20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

The litmus test, it would seems, is verse 20.

Anyone reading this and knowing they are failing this, can ask Jesus Christ for help; even to have His love to love our enemies to die for them.

Jesus has all power given him by the Father. If any part of the old law was to be transferred to the New Covenant Jesus would have spoken that specifically to the Jews and also to the Apostles. If the moral law or the ten commandments were to be part of the New Covenat surely in 3 years of teaching Jesus would have made it known to follow the old moral law or follow the old ten. He did not. He spoke the commanments He wanted us to follow. and It seems he showed us that in John 15:10. The doctrine of bringing the moral law and/or the Ten into the New covenant was not done by Jesus it is done by men and has no place in the New covenant imo.

With Jesus Christ in us, He will help us to place confidence in Him to finish what He has started in us to his glory as all the fruits of righteousness are by Jesus Christ.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

7 Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace. 8 For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ. 9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; 10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ.

11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

I thank the Lord for you for sharing and confirming the word.

 

[A branch]

Feel free to ask any question for clarity, and God be willing, He shall use me to provide them, unless the Lord used somebody else.

I am not seeing the connection here; however, I do know in that chapter that He chose His disciples and so we did not choose Him.

John 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. 15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. 16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. 17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.

If you are referring to this truth, then I agree that by His power after having chosen us, He enables us to follow Him & His commandments.

By His grace & by His help, I can only hope in the Lord Jesus Christ that He has chosen me to choose Him because no saved believer can love Him unless he loved us first.

1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 19 We love him, because he first loved us. 20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

The litmus test, it would seems, is verse 20.

Anyone reading this and knowing they are failing this, can ask Jesus Christ for help; even to have His love to love our enemies to die for them.

With Jesus Christ in us, He will help us to place confidence in Him to finish what He has started in us to his glory as all the fruits of righteousness are by Jesus Christ.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

7 Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace. 8 For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ. 9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; 10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ.

11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

I thank the Lord for you for sharing and confirming the word.

Thanks for the post. Im not sure you are getting my drift. I disagree with people saying we must follow the ten commandments of the old law. Jesus never said that apostles never said that. we are to follow the commandments Jesus spoke from His own mouth.

 

[A branch]

John 1:12
John 3:36
Acts 13:39

 

[EarlyActs]

What is natural logic? Philosophy?

If that is what was meant It would to be we warned of that.

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

The Col context is clearly about Judaizers and Asian cults that have similar elemental rules. It is not a rejection of common sense.

 

[EarlyActs]

Thanks for the post. Im not sure you are getting my drift. I disagree with people saying we must follow the ten commandments of the old law. Jesus never said that apostles never said that. we are to follow the commandments Jesus spoke from His own mouth.

Lol there is not much conflict between them.

 

[EarlyActs]

What is natural logic? Philosophy?

If that is what was meant It would to be we warned of that.

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

It should be a common sense conclusion for people to accept that this world must be designed and created, fine-tuned for human life etc beyond any capability we know of.

 

[A branch]

Lol there is not much conflict between them.

I agree not much conflict between the Ten written on stone under the law and the commandments Jesus spoke while teaching the New Covenant. The conflict is whether to follow the old law written on stone or the New law spoken out of Jesus's mouth.secondly one can not pick 10 thing out of the Law to go by and lay the other 603 aside. One must follow all the old Law or the New Law Jesus spoke.

 

[EarlyActs]

I agree not much conflict between the Ten written on stone under the law and the commandments Jesus spoke while teaching the New Covenant. The conflict is whether to follow the old law written on stone or the New law spoken out of Jesus's mouth.secondly one can not pick 10 thing out of the Law to go by and lay the other 603 aside. One must follow all the old Law or the New Law Jesus spoke.

But the question was about the 10 Commands.

The only snag would be the one ceremony of the Sabbath and the letter to Hebrews (!) clarifies that.

 

[A branch]

But the question was about the 10 Commands.

The only snag would be the one ceremony of the Sabbath and the letter to Hebrews (!) clarifies that.

well Im not sure where in Heb to look but the Sabbath is not part of the New Covenant Col 2:16

 

[EarlyActs]

well Im not sure where in Heb to look but the Sabbath is not part of the New Covenant Col 2:16

There is whole chapter in Hebrews on how it is fulfilled in Christ.

 

[A branch]

There is whole chapter in Hebrews on how it is fulfilled in Christ.

I am aware God fulfilled the old law. That is why it is not needed or used in the New Covenant. Rom 13:10

 

[jeremiah1five]

Sound doctrine is not essential for salvation.
Sound doctrine would be the fruit of salvation.
Case in point:
Although Israel was already in covenant with God for their salvation, the advent of Jesus Messiah and the Holy Spirit are both parts of the New Covenant. It was a learning first with regard to the Son of God, and second with the advent of the Holy Spirit. What took place on the Day of Pentecost was a 'new' thing God was doing in Israel. It took time to search the Jewish Scriptures to understand the 'new' thing God was doing in Israel. Even before they understood the plan of God revealed by the Presence of the Holy Spirit 3000 Jews were saved, born-again, and they understood nothing of the New Covenant particulars until they searched the Scriptures.

 

[A branch]

Sound doctrine is not essential for salvation.
Sound doctrine would be the fruit of salvation.
Case in point:
Although Israel was already in covenant with God for their salvation, the advent of Jesus Messiah and the Holy Spirit are both parts of the New Covenant. It was a learning first with regard to the Son of God, and second with the advent of the Holy Spirit. What took place on the Day of Pentecost was a 'new' thing God was doing in Israel. It took time to search the Jewish Scriptures to understand the 'new' thing God was doing in Israel. Even before they understood the plan of God revealed by the Presence of the Holy Spirit 3000 Jews were saved, born-again, and they understood nothing of the New Covenant particulars until they searched the Scriptures.

Sound doctrine is not essential for salvation.
Sound doctrine would be the fruit of salvation.
These two statements above I agree with very much.

Although Israel was already in covenant with God for their salvation.
This above statement I am not sure is correct. The old law covenant I do not believe was going to bring salvation to the Jews.
There was no Faith in it.
In Deu 18
15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
We see plans were already in the works to bring Faith to Jews though the New Covenant.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Sound doctrine is not essential for salvation.
Sound doctrine would be the fruit of salvation.
These two statements above I agree with very much.

Although Israel was already in covenant with God for their salvation.
This above statement I am not sure is correct. The old law covenant I do not believe was going to bring salvation to the Jews.
There was no Faith in it.
In Deu 18
15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
We see plans were already in the works to bring Faith to Jews though the New Covenant.

From the beginning of the Hebrew family in Eber to Noah (who alone found grace in the eyes of the Lord) and to Shem and to Abraham and to his seed God has made covenant with a certain family of people throughout history. Each covenant was a progression as well as parts-revelation God makes with this family line up to and including Jesus Christ, the culmination and fulfillment of all covenants. There was both faith and sight to the Noahic Covenant. Noah, as well as his seed (recipients of this covenant) were to see the rainbow and in this trust that God would not flood the earth again.

The Abrahamic Covenant (Gen. 17) required no faith but the sign of circumcision that Abraham and his seed were to perform upon every male child born into his family.

The Mosaic Covenant also did not explicitly require faith since no man could exert or express perfect and complete unfailing faith in God in relation to the Law and so there is no faith required in this covenant. There are only direct commands and indirect commands required in obedience to the Law of God, the Mosaic Covenant.

Nor did the New Covenant God made with the House of Israel (and Judah) in Jeremiah 31:31-34 require faith as part of Israel's requirement in this covenant.

The whole purpose of the covenants God made with this family line was the redemption "from out of the world" a people to Himself with His Son as Redeemer of this people in covenant. It was necessary in order to for God to have a people to save them from the mass of fallen, sinful mankind. Each covenant built upon that goal as per God's purpose in creating man to begin with and starting with the promise of Redeemer in Genesis 3:15.

In the Abrahamic, Mosaic, and New Covenant there is no requirement of faith as part of these covenants.