If it's True That Justification by Faith ...

[brightfame52]

@makesends

Have you an answer, why you harp only on justification, and not the rest of what Scripture refers to as effected by [at least] regeneration and God's gift of faith, and not only accomplished at the cross? Salvation itself, for instance...

This is not accurate, Ive mentioned Faith and the Spirit in this exchange, you see what you wanna see

post 102 I stated

Yet Justification is a Divine Fact before we believe it, Faith causes us to believe the Fact of our free Justification, as it is made known in the Gospel Rom 1:17. Justification is our Righteousness, and is made known to the Spiritual eye of Faith, and so the Gospel is also called the word of Faith Rom 10:8,17 !

post 71

B

Post in thread 'If it's True That Justification by Faith ...'

Jul 18, 2025

Why Justification by Faith ?

Those who are Justified before Faith before God, based upon The Divine Purpose which includes the blood of Christ in covenant, slain from the foundation Rev 13:8, foreknown before the world began 1 Pet 1:20, based on the blood of the everlasting covenant Heb 13:20. They all shall be Justified by Faith in time at their call by the Gospel Rom 8:28-30

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed...

• brightfame52

 

[Josheb]

I'm asking it as a 'why not', not as a 'why' question.

Read it again.

Ummmmm..... not an answer to my question. Is the question you are asking.....

Since Romans is the epistle that explains the article upon which the Church stands (justification)..... why was it not the first letter written by Paul? Why wasn't Paul's first letter the book of Romans? Why wasn't Paul's first letter the one in which he explained justification?​

Is that what you're asking?

Why NOT the first letter written?

Now, the second question: Is this a rhetorical question or do you not already know the answer?

If you do not know the answer and are sincerely asking the question, then the answer lies in the fact the apostles did not know where the early Church would faulter and they addressed the needs as they arose. The first epistles were written to address concerns related to the early persecution and anticipated return of Christ. Then matters of doctrine, followed by the problem of (Judaic) legalism and the creeping influences of paganisms. Then came pastoral letters. I've always considered the progression natural (no pun intended).

 

[prism]

Read it again.


Why NOT the first letter written?

Now, the second question: Is this a rhetorical question or do you not already know the answer?

If you do not know the answer and are sincerely asking the question, then the answer lies in the fact the apostles did not know where the early Church would faulter and they addressed the needs as they arose. The first epistles were written to address concerns related to the early persecution and anticipated return of Christ. Then matters of doctrine, followed by the problem of (Judaic) legalism and the creeping influences of paganisms. Then came pastoral letters. I've always considered the progression natural (no pun intended).

Back on 'ignore'. Thanks (but I guess that makes no sense.)

 

[prism]

Which explains why you don't know why Romans was not the first letter written.

Correct, especially since "Justification is the Article by which the Church stands or falls (foundational).

 

[Josheb]

Correct, especially since "Justification is the Article by which the Church stands or falls (foundational).

The question is committing a false cause fallacy.

If justification by faith is the article by which the Church stands or falls, then it should have been written about first.

Or, more accurately,

If Luther's personal opinion is correct, then justification by faith should have been written about first.

Or even,

Because Romans is foundational to the article of justification it should have been written first.



None of which are logical or true. Degree of significance status does not necessarily dictate order of occurrence (the don't start surgeons on hearts or brains - they don't start autopsies there, either). Ordinal ranking can occur based on any number of criteria. Justification by faith could have been the last thing written and its position of importance would be unaffected. Confusing what is normative with what's ordinal (or what's nominal) is a mistake. Also, Luther is correct, but Paul did not know Luther or Luther's opinion. Luther is post hoc commentary. Furthermore, Justification by faith (JbF) is a logical necessity so having to write about it ironic since anyone could have and everyone should have figured it out as the necessity it is. That problems arose from fools falling backwards upon works has nothing to do with the priority status of JbF.

 

[brightfame52]

What the resurrection of Christ means !

1 Cor 15:17

17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

If the resurrection of Christ didn't mean that those He died for are Justified from all their sins, then there would not have been any truth of Justification for Faith to receive and embrace, and faith would have been worthless, but the resurrection of Christ was a public exoneration that all those He died for are clear, of any accusation; free from guilt or blame before the Justice of God ! Rom 4:25

Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

The word Justification here is the greek word dikaiōsis and means:

I.
the act of God declaring men free from guilt and acceptable to him

II.
abjuring to be righteous, justification

Thats why for anyone Christ died for and was raised in behalf of, for anyone to die in their sins and unbelief, God is guilty of injustice and punishing eternally a Righteous person free from guilt and supposedly acceptable to Him !

At His resurrection it was a deliverance from out of the prison of death, declaring that by His death He hath received full satisfaction or propitiation, for all those sins and offences that Christ as Surety Shepherd had charged to Him, meaning all the sins of the Elect or His Sheep, for remember He rose from the dead as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep Heb 13:20

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

So it is only reasonable to conclude that He died as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep Jn 10:11,15 ! So it was their sins that He was delivered for Rom 4:25;8:32 ! The resurrection of Christ means the Justification of all for whom He died !

 

[Josheb]

What the resurrection of Christ means !

1 Cor 15:17

17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

If the resurrection of Christ didn't mean that those He died for are Justified from all their sins, then there would not have been any truth of Justification for Faith to receive and embrace, and faith would have been worthless, but the resurrection of Christ was a public exoneration that all those He died for are clear, of any accusation; free from guilt or blame before the Justice of God ! Rom 4:25

Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

The word Justification here is the greek word dikaiōsis and means:

I.
the act of God declaring men free from guilt and acceptable to him

II.
abjuring to be righteous, justification

Thats why for anyone Christ died for and was raised in behalf of, for anyone to die in their sins and unbelief, God is guilty of injustice and punishing eternally a Righteous person free from guilt and supposedly acceptable to Him !

At His resurrection it was a deliverance from out of the prison of death, declaring that by His death He hath received full satisfaction or propitiation, for all those sins and offences that Christ as Surety Shepherd had charged to Him, meaning all the sins of the Elect or His Sheep, for remember He rose from the dead as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep Heb 13:20

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

So it is only reasonable to conclude that He died as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep Jn 10:11,15 ! So it was their sins that He was delivered for Rom 4:25;8:32 ! The resurrection of Christ means the Justification of all for whom He died !

What has that to do with the placement of Romans in the chronology of the Pauline epistles? Where did you read anyone asking for the meaning of the resurrection or a definition of justification?

 

[brightfame52]

What has that to do with the placement of Romans in the chronology of the Pauline epistles? Where did you read anyone asking for the meaning of the resurrection or a definition of justification?

Well it has to do with Justification by Faith

 

[Josheb]

Well it has to do with Justification by Faith

Yes, it does, but no one is asking what JbF means. Given the premise of JbF.......


Why wasn't Romans the first letter written?


Tell @prism why Romans wasn't the first letter written if JbF is the article upon which the Church stands of falls.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes, it does, but no one is asking what JbF means. Given the premise of JbF.......


Why wasn't Romans the first letter written?


Tell @prism why Romans wasn't the first letter written if JbF is the article upon which the Church stands of falls.

That part Im not interested in, Im interested in the part that says Justification by Faith. And Im not going to be going back and forth with you about it, just ignore my input if it doesnt interest you or if it bothers you. If Im breaking a rule point it out, im sure the mods will