I AM That I AM: What Does It Really Mean?

[LeviR]

That's a long way from the whole gospel message,

Is it?

“The just shall live by faith”, is the good news.

 

[Arial]

“I am” simply refers to existing.. like, “I be he” or “I am the one”. “It is I”
Jesus uses it to refer to himself as the Massiah.

It simply means Jesus is to come before Abraham [is] to become.

That makes no sense. Abraham is to become what? The questions put to Jesus were not about Abraham becoming. They were about Abraham having already come (been born) and died, and Jesus claiming that Abraham had seen him (Jesus) and he had see Abraham. Would you please read the entire chapter and then see if you can get past your nonsense. After you have realized that through the entire conversation Jesus is telling them that he is God, that he came from God, and was sent by God. He even makes reference to his crucifixion. And when you have done that. pay careful attention to what immediately preceded the "I am" statement.







48 The Jews answered him, “Are we not right in saying that you are a Samaritan and have a demon?” 49 Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon, but I honor my Father, and you dishonor me. 50 Yet I do not seek my own glory; there is One who seeks it, and he is the judge. 51 Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death.” 52 The Jews said to him, “Now we know that you have a demon! Abraham died, as did the prophets, yet you say, ‘If anyone keeps my word, he will never taste death.’ 53 Are you greater than our father Abraham, who died? And the prophets died! Who do you make yourself out to be?” 54 Jesus answered, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God.’[c] 55 But you have not known him. I know him. If I were to say that I do not know him, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and I keep his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.” 57 So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?”[d] 58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” 59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.

Jesus often replied to his haters questions and mocking in a way that baffled them rather than directly answering. This, I believe is the case here.

You are mistaken. Read the above. It was not until he made the "I am" statement that they finally got exactly what he was saying, and to say it was in the law a capital crime. Punishable by death. And that is because they knew exactly who I AM is and why he used it.

If we think of the kingdom of God as a new creation that comes through the promise of Abraham and his seed, it might be understood that Abraham is the father of that new creation where Christ has the preeminence.
Some have suggested that Jesus understands Abraham as the father of a multitude. And his name represents all of his descendants.
Makes sense to me.
And we don’t have to change the meaning of the verb.

Except it is not what Jesus was talking about in any part of the conversation he was having at the time. In addition it is a truth that is not revealed until after his crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension.

I believe Jesus was teaching the coming of the kingdom of God in that short verse.

That short verse is a part of a whole. Context, context, context. The conversation was about who he is.

 

[Arial]

Wow, that hurt.

The truth often does hurt. It was meant for your good. Learn from it.

 

[LeviR]

The truth often does hurt. It was meant for your good. Learn from it.

Gee, thank you. May I have another?

 

[LeviR]

That makes no sense. Abraham is to become what? The questions put to Jesus were not about Abraham becoming. They were about Abraham having already come (been born) and died, and Jesus claiming that Abraham had seen him (Jesus) and he had see Abraham. Would you please read the entire chapter and then see if you can get past your nonsense. After you have realized that through the entire conversation Jesus is telling them that he is God, that he came from God, and was sent by God. He even makes reference to his crucifixion. And when you have done that. pay careful attention to what immediately preceded the "I am" statement.







48 The Jews answered him, “Are we not right in saying that you are a Samaritan and have a demon?” 49 Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon, but I honor my Father, and you dishonor me. 50 Yet I do not seek my own glory; there is One who seeks it, and he is the judge. 51 Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death.” 52 The Jews said to him, “Now we know that you have a demon! Abraham died, as did the prophets, yet you say, ‘If anyone keeps my word, he will never taste death.’ 53 Are you greater than our father Abraham, who died? And the prophets died! Who do you make yourself out to be?” 54 Jesus answered, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God.’[c] 55 But you have not known him. I know him. If I were to say that I do not know him, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and I keep his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.” 57 So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?”[d] 58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” 59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.

You are mistaken. Read the above. It was not until he made the "I am" statement that they finally got exactly what he was saying, and to say it was in the law a capital crime. Punishable by death. And that is because they knew exactly who I AM is and why he used it.

Except it is not what Jesus was talking about in any part of the conversation he was having at the time. In addition it is a truth that is not revealed until after his crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension.

That short verse is a part of a whole. Context, context, context. The conversation was about who he is.

As I said, I allow the scripture to inform me. However, like you, I once allowed myself to be informed by Trinitarian ideas instead.
They can be very convincing, I know.

 

[LeviR]

The RCC has millions believing Peter was the first Pope, Mary was an immaculate conception and Adam was created with an immortal soul.
How did they do that?

Simply with a few misinterpreted scripture, that’s how.

 

[LeviR]

The truth often does hurt. It was meant for your good. Learn from it.

What verb would John have used if he wanted to indicate the Messiah existed before Abraham rather than the Messiah coming before Abraham?

ἐγένετο

The truth enlightens

 

[Mr GLee]

It could be said that before “the father of a multitude of nations” is to come Jesus must be.

Abram father of one was family or nation before he re named him Abraham the father of all the nations

The outward Jew that was trusting his dying flesh had Abraham as if he was our eternal Father , The same with Peter same law of dying mankind different name( two Popes )

Matthew 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father (Eternal God) : for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham

God is not a racist.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again LeviR,

BEING is existing. One who exists. One who IS. I exist, I am. I am the one who exists.

I am surprised that you try to defend the LXX translation of Exodus 3:14. The LXX translation does not match the Hebrew of Exodus 3:14 and does not match ANY English translation of the Hebrew of Exodus 3:14. You seem to be also locked on the KJV translation of Exodus 3:14. You may be influenced by the fact that most modern translations also follow the KJV, and as such these reject Tyndale's translation and also reject the marginal renditions in the RV and RSV.

As well as these resources there are other readily available resources. The JW Book "Aid to Bible Understanding", the article "Jehovah" pages 882-895 has a good explanation of the subject and I agree with most of what this states. Englishman's Concordance has a listing of the Hebrew word "Ehyeh", and ALL the occurrences listed under "Future Tense" have "I will be" except Exodus 3:14 looks out of place which gives the KJV "I AM".

I could start listing Christadelphian resources, but you may not now have access to these. I find these resources compelling. I could directly share a few of these resources with you. I could at least list some of these that have had a strong impact upon me.

The following is my brief assessment of some aspects of this subject:

https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/the-yahweh-name.932/

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[LeviR]

Greetings again LeviR,

I am surprised that you try to defend the LXX translation of Exodus 3:14. The LXX translation does not match the Hebrew of Exodus 3:14 and does not match ANY English translation of the Hebrew of Exodus 3:14. You seem to be also locked on the KJV translation of Exodus 3:14. You may be influenced by the fact that most modern translations also follow the KJV, and as such these reject Tyndale's translation and also reject the marginal renditions in the RV and RSV.

As well as these resources there are other readily available resources. The JW Book "Aid to Bible Understanding", the article "Jehovah" pages 882-895 has a good explanation of the subject and I agree with most of what this states. Englishman's Concordance has a listing of the Hebrew word "Ehyeh", and ALL the occurrences listed under "Future Tense" have "I will be" except Exodus 3:14 looks out of place which gives the KJV "I AM".

I could start listing Christadelphian resources, but you may not now have access to these. I find these resources compelling. I could directly share a few of these resources with you. I could at least list some of these that have had a strong impact upon me.

The following is my brief assessment of some aspects of this subject:

https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/the-yahweh-name.932/

Kind regards
Trevor

I will be who I will be?

Is God to be someone or something He was not already?

What will He be?

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again LeviR,

I will be who I will be?

Or an expanded version "I will be/become what/who I will become".

Is God to be someone or something He was not already?

Perhaps the clearest figure is that the One God, Yahweh, is the Father. Yahweh is the Father of His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, by conception/birth, and the development of his character, he was full of grace and truth, and God's power raised Jesus from the dead and gave him immortal life. These are all part of the New Creation, whose source is from the One God'Yahweh, God the Father.

In the context of Exodus 3:14, the Name was associated with the deliverance of Israel out of Egypt and bring them into the Promised Land Exodus 3:11-15, 6:1-8. When this was accomplished this aspect of the Name was fulfilled:
Exodus 15:1–8 (KJV): 1 Then sang Moses and the children of Israel this song unto the LORD, and spake, saying, I will sing unto the LORD, for he hath triumphed gloriously: the horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea. 2 The LORD is my strength and song, and he is become my salvation: he is my God, and I will prepare him an habitation; my father’s God, and I will exalt him. 3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name. 4 Pharaoh’s chariots and his host hath he cast into the sea: his chosen captains also are drowned in the Red sea. 5 The depths have covered them: they sank into the bottom as a stone. 6 Thy right hand, O LORD, is become glorious in power: thy right hand, O LORD, hath dashed in pieces the enemy. 7 And in the greatness of thine excellency thou hast overthrown them that rose up against thee: thou sentest forth thy wrath, which consumed them as stubble. 8 And with the blast of thy nostrils the waters were gathered together, the floods stood upright as an heap, and the depths were congealed in the heart of the sea.
Yahweh is become my salvation.

The same expression is applied to Jesus:
Psalm 118:14 (KJV): The LORD is my strength and song, and is become my salvation.

And the future deliverance of Israel:
Isaiah 12:1–2 (KJV): 1 And in that day thou shalt say, O LORD, I will praise thee: though thou wast angry with me, thine anger is turned away, and thou comfortedst me. 2 Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.

The end result of God's activity will the filling of the earth with God's glory:
Numbers 14:21 (KJV): But as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the LORD.

Habakkuk 2:14 (KJV): For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

The end result is all the product of God, the Creator:
1 Corinthians 15:26–28 (KJV): 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Mr GLee]

Greetings again LeviR,

Or an expanded version "I will be/become what/who I will become".

Perhaps the clearest figure is that the One God, Yahweh, is the Father. Yahweh is the Father of His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, by conception/birth, and the development of his character, he was full of grace and truth, and God's power raised Jesus from the dead and gave him immortal life. These are all part of the New Creation, whose source is from the One God'Yahweh, God the Father.

In the context of Exodus 3:14, the Name was associated with the deliverance of Israel out of Egypt and bring them into the Promised Land Exodus 3:11-15, 6:1-8. When this was accomplished this aspect of the Name was fulfilled:
Exodus 15:1–8 (KJV): 1 Then sang Moses and the children of Israel this song unto the LORD, and spake, saying, I will sing unto the LORD, for he hath triumphed gloriously: the horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea. 2 The LORD is my strength and song, and he is become my salvation: he is my God, and I will prepare him an habitation; my father’s God, and I will exalt him. 3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name. 4 Pharaoh’s chariots and his host hath he cast into the sea: his chosen captains also are drowned in the Red sea. 5 The depths have covered them: they sank into the bottom as a stone. 6 Thy right hand, O LORD, is become glorious in power: thy right hand, O LORD, hath dashed in pieces the enemy. 7 And in the greatness of thine excellency thou hast overthrown them that rose up against thee: thou sentest forth thy wrath, which consumed them as stubble. 8 And with the blast of thy nostrils the waters were gathered together, the floods stood upright as an heap, and the depths were congealed in the heart of the sea.
Yahweh is become my salvation.

The same expression is applied to Jesus:
Psalm 118:14 (KJV): The LORD is my strength and song, and is become my salvation.

And the future deliverance of Israel:
Isaiah 12:1–2 (KJV): 1 And in that day thou shalt say, O LORD, I will praise thee: though thou wast angry with me, thine anger is turned away, and thou comfortedst me. 2 Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.

The end result of God's activity will the filling of the earth with God's glory:
Numbers 14:21 (KJV): But as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the LORD.

Habakkuk 2:14 (KJV): For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

The end result is all the product of God, the Creator:
1 Corinthians 15:26–28 (KJV): 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Kind regards
Trevor

I agree.

It is more how is the words I Am used . some have made it into a idol secret word as if not defined correctly .No entrance in.

Name = attribute. Not as we use the word name to literally distinguish one from another. God remains invisible. Not a Jewish Jehovah

I Am, simply the presence or power of God. Nothing more and nothing less

The I Am power. "Let there be" and "it was God alone good".

It would seem to be a wile of the evil one to try and divide the attributes of God and put a literal face on Eternal Spirit ) .

God magnifies his living word (sola scriptura ) above all his attributes. God is not a Jewish man as King of kings(things seen ) . We look to the eternal invisible Christ in us.

Psalm 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name (Attribute)

Exodus 3: 14 And God said unto Moses, I Am (the invisible presence) That I Am: (the invisible presence)and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am (the invisible presence) hath sent me unto you.

Genesis 15:7 And he said unto him, I am the Lord (the invisible presence) that brought thee out of Ur of the Chaldees, to give thee this land to inherit it.

Psalm 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: (the invisible presence) I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.

Like the I am Popeye. He is what he is and that's all what he is . The Alpha and Omega

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Mr GLee,

Exodus 3: 14 And God said unto Moses, I Am (the invisible presence) That I Am: (the invisible presence)and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am (the invisible presence) hath sent me unto you.

I reject the KJV translation "I Am", but I endorse Tyndale's translation "I wilbe". and the RV and RSV margin's renditions "I will be".

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[LeviR]

Greetings again LeviR,

Or an expanded version "I will be/become what/who I will become".

Perhaps the clearest figure is that the One God, Yahweh, is the Father. Yahweh is the Father of His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, by conception/birth, and the development of his character, he was full of grace and truth, and God's power raised Jesus from the dead and gave him immortal life. These are all part of the New Creation, whose source is from the One God'Yahweh, God the Father.

In the context of Exodus 3:14, the Name was associated with the deliverance of Israel out of Egypt and bring them into the Promised Land Exodus 3:11-15, 6:1-8. When this was accomplished this aspect of the Name was fulfilled:
Exodus 15:1–8 (KJV): 1 Then sang Moses and the children of Israel this song unto the LORD, and spake, saying, I will sing unto the LORD, for he hath triumphed gloriously: the horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea. 2 The LORD is my strength and song, and he is become my salvation: he is my God, and I will prepare him an habitation; my father’s God, and I will exalt him. 3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name. 4 Pharaoh’s chariots and his host hath he cast into the sea: his chosen captains also are drowned in the Red sea. 5 The depths have covered them: they sank into the bottom as a stone. 6 Thy right hand, O LORD, is become glorious in power: thy right hand, O LORD, hath dashed in pieces the enemy. 7 And in the greatness of thine excellency thou hast overthrown them that rose up against thee: thou sentest forth thy wrath, which consumed them as stubble. 8 And with the blast of thy nostrils the waters were gathered together, the floods stood upright as an heap, and the depths were congealed in the heart of the sea.
Yahweh is become my salvation.

The same expression is applied to Jesus:
Psalm 118:14 (KJV): The LORD is my strength and song, and is become my salvation.

And the future deliverance of Israel:
Isaiah 12:1–2 (KJV): 1 And in that day thou shalt say, O LORD, I will praise thee: though thou wast angry with me, thine anger is turned away, and thou comfortedst me. 2 Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.

The end result of God's activity will the filling of the earth with God's glory:
Numbers 14:21 (KJV): But as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the LORD.

Habakkuk 2:14 (KJV): For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

The end result is all the product of God, the Creator:
1 Corinthians 15:26–28 (KJV): 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Kind regards
Trevor

You may be right, but I’ve always seen it as a name that speaks of God’s immutability. I don’t know of any other name of God which speaks of His unchangeableness.

Do you?