How old is the earth?

[CrowCross]

If God created the heavens and the earth long before day one, and that it was there before He spoke light into existence to establish the evening and the morning that first day, then why do that for surely the lights in the heavens were already there to establish the evening and the morning?

I think many people try to incorporate the Big Bang into creation.

 

[ChristB4us]

I think many people try to incorporate the Big Bang into creation.

I think so too, but God knows for sure how each one is thinking for how they apply His words wrong and why.

 

[EarlyActs]

Study the word choice in qbible.com. The stem ‘Shami’ is limited in v7 to local. There is ‘kabob’ for the rest.

Dont respond to bit pieces. Get the journal for 8$ and get up to speed. The Young, Local, Creation-week Journal at Amazon.

The distant works were just an explosion ; The local ‘Shami’ was an intricate work of art, and earth was formed like pottery, says 2P3.

 

[David1701]

If you know the form used in early Genesis, v1 is a title
V2 is pre-existing consonants go back a ways
V3 is what happened on Day 1 of creation week

The 2nd practice is to do proper vocab. The term ‘heavens’ is the root ‘Shami’ and is only part of the firmament , says v8, not everything out there. Another term is used in v17 for the rest, the stem ‘kavov.’

These 2 samples should help you realize that my journal has a fair amount to say that matters.

The Hebrew title is taken from the first word of the book; so, the title is "In the Beginning". It is not that the first verse is the title; but that the title is taken from the first word of the first verse.

Where is your evidence that verse two refers to pre-existing conditions, before "In the Beginning"?

Gen. 1:8 (WEB) God called the expanse “sky.” There was evening and there was morning, a second day.

There are three heavens: the sky, space and the place where God dwells.

I'm not interested in your journal, only in what the Bible says. You can present your biblical evidence here.

 

[ChristB4us]

Study the word choice in qbible.com. The stem ‘Shami’ is limited in v7 to local. There is ‘kabob’ for the rest.

Dont respond to bit pieces. Get the journal for 8$ and get up to speed. The Young, Local, Creation-week Journal at Amazon.

Can you avoid that appearance of evil that you are serving mammon rather than God on this issue?

The distant works were just an explosion ; The local ‘Shami’ was an intricate work of art, and earth was formed like pottery, says 2P3.

So basically you are trying to agree with the Big Bang theory and that God for one reason or another, decided to make our current local area of space, a work of art as opposed to the rest of the universe?

Then explain verse one below.

Genesis 2:1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

That says everything in the universe was created with the earth in 6 days for God to rest on the 7th day as written in Genesis 2:2-3.

Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

This is just as bad as another professing believer that argues for the Greek text for the participle that the scripture should read Jesus was rather " a " son of God rather than "the" Son of God in denying His deity and arguing against the existence of the Triune God.

Please, brother, believe God spoken everything in existence in 6 days for why He rested on the 7th day from ALL He has made.

 

[EarlyActs]

The Hebrew title is taken from the first word of the book; so, the title is "In the Beginning". It is not that the first verse is the title; but that the title is taken from the first word of the first verse.

Where is your evidence that verse two refers to pre-existing conditions, before "In the Beginning"?

Gen. 1:8 (WEB) God called the expanse “sky.” There was evening and there was morning, a second day.

There are three heavens: the sky, space and the place where God dwells.

I'm not interested in your journal, only in what the Bible says. You can present your biblical evidence here.

Present 150 pages every time I sign in?

You are wrong about 3 heavens. It’s amateur work like that that creates muck. The text is saying that ‘Shami’ equals the ‘biraqi.’ If you are not using a side by side like the qbible.com please start over.

The ‘biraqi’ is not distant space which is a curtain concealing Gods glory. Ps 104, Is 45.

There are many section titles in early Genesis. Enjoy finding them. You should easily spot 10. None of them are action lines.

As for pre-existing compare the Rachel story. Ch 28. Did she just have relatives the day that story happened? Was she very beautiful just that day that story happened? Of course not.

The mass explosion God used to stretch out the universe is a proof to many scientists that God created, but that’s not Gen 1, which is confined to our system. It only mentions distant space detachedly. Bc ‘shami’ is the earth and its neighbors that mark and signal things to it.

 

[EarlyActs]

Can you avoid that appearance of evil that you are serving mammon rather than God on this issue?

So basically you are trying to agree with the Big Bang theory and that God for one reason or another, decided to make our current local area of space, a work of art as opposed to the rest of the universe?

Then explain verse one below.

Genesis 2:1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

That says everything in the universe was created with the earth in 6 days for God to rest on the 7th day as written in Genesis 2:2-3.

Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

This is just as bad as another professing believer that argues for the Greek text for the participle that the scripture should read Jesus was rather " a " son of God rather than "the" Son of God in denying His deity and arguing against the existence of the Triune God.

Please, brother, believe God spoken everything in existence in 6 days for why He rested on the 7th day from ALL He has made.

To talk further , you need to be able to distinguish at least 2 concepts like 2 P3 does. One is that a mass explosion took place effecting the distant universe. God did this but it is not ‘shami and eretz’. It was prior. As 2P2 says, this from old; earth was formed through water. Not the same thing at all.

Gen 1 is later (recent) and not random at all. Everything is engineered and designed.

If you can’t accept that distinction , talk to someone else but not me.

 

[David1701]

Present 150 pages every time I sign in?

You are wrong about 3 heavens. It’s amateur work like that that creates muck. The text is saying that ‘Shami’ equals the ‘biraqi.’ If you are not using a side by side like the qbible.com please start over.

The ‘biraqi’ is not distant space which is a curtain concealing Gods glory. Ps 104, Is 45.

There are many section titles in early Genesis. Enjoy finding them. You should easily spot 10. None of them are action lines.

As for pre-existing compare the Rachel story. Ch 28. Did she just have relatives the day that story happened? Was she very beautiful just that day that story happened? Of course not.

The mass explosion God used to stretch out the universe is a proof to many scientists that God created, but that’s not Gen 1, which is confined to our system. It only mentions distant space detachedly. Bc ‘shami’ is the earth and its neighbors that mark and signal things to it.

Gen. 1 is NOT "confined to our system"! During the creation week, God created the heavens and the earth; he also created the stars, only one of which is in our system.

I discern confusion in your posts, which is why I'm not remotely interested in your journal.

 

[EarlyActs]

Gen. 1 is NOT "confined to our system"! During the creation week, God created the heavens and the earth; he also created the stars, only one of which is in our system.

I discern confusion in your posts, which is why I'm not remotely interested in your journal.

You're wrong about 'shami' and if you don't get out a qbible.com or similar side-by-side you won't see it. The text, vs 14-17, repeats many times how the 'shami' were placed or set exactly, but not the 'kavov.' It just adds almost absent-minded that they were there. Two different purposes,, two ways of manifesting them. So in that sense, Gen 1 is not trying to explain the distant worlds. Just like 2 P 3 on the universe vs the earth. The stars/universe in the distance is from earlier and random. (The sheer amount of the 'kavov' does have a 'story' later in Genesis in ch 15, which is about 2000 years later.)

You are very interested in the journal but you don't know what it says, which is a huge mistake, says Proverbs--to speak before a person has absorbed. It says evolution is a bombastic idea, but longer time itself is neutral and supportable (not infinite time of course) and Is $8 really so insufferable to hear a person with a master's in research (Regent College, Vancouver) and some 30 years gathering material?

The journal currently has reference to over 30 sources, so you might as well write off Cassuto, Schaeffer, Malone, Larson, Middelmann, etc.

Do not be worried that any essential component of Christian faith is disturbed: it upholds God's power and design, verbal revelation, sin and salvation, etc. But it may be the best job of integrating honest science with the text to date; that's not for me to say.

I do know it is better than Spike Psarris of Logos saying that Gen 1 says nothing about stars except that they are there; he didn't even deal with vocabulary in his starlight talk. A person absolutely must know the contents of 'shami' 'kavov' 'layla' and 'biraqia' ('shami' = biraqia' but not distant stars, and biraqia reaches as low as our weather, Day 2 ) There is no other source for 'layla' than distant stars on Day 1 because our local system was made on Day 4.

It's a lot to keep track of. 'There are many moving parts to the question'--my ad.

 

[EarlyActs]

Can you avoid that appearance of evil that you are serving mammon rather than God on this issue?

So basically you are trying to agree with the Big Bang theory and that God for one reason or another, decided to make our current local area of space, a work of art as opposed to the rest of the universe?

Then explain verse one below.

Genesis 2:1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

That says everything in the universe was created with the earth in 6 days for God to rest on the 7th day as written in Genesis 2:2-3.

Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

This is just as bad as another professing believer that argues for the Greek text for the participle that the scripture should read Jesus was rather " a " son of God rather than "the" Son of God in denying His deity and arguing against the existence of the Triune God.

Please, brother, believe God spoken everything in existence in 6 days for why He rested on the 7th day from ALL He has made.

Yes it was all done by the 6th bc the other was prior. There is also a strong reason to connect host to other beings, not to lifeless objects. Remember to do the work in Hebrew not English.

The work God did was the shaping and firming of the surface and atmosphere which we use. That is why the description in Gen 1 and Ps 104 of creation is that of forming material that has been there a while. The same is found in 2 P 3.

Notice in2P3 that he doesn’t address time of creation week, although the universe is long before. What the cult hates about his message is that the earth was directly handled, formed, shaped. They worshipped the earth’s solvency.

It is biological life before Day 3 that we object to, not lifeless time. I just saw one of the conventional charts the other day showing what kind of fossils are where. It is a lie bc all those layers are sedimentary deposition but also bc the sequence is far more jumbled than shown.

Btw if light on Day 1 is not an ordinary starlight, then that means darkness before that is not ordinary darkness. There is no reason for this, but there is a reason for local darkness which is that starlight has not arrived, and there is no local light for 4 more days.

That means minimum of 4 years waiting for Centauri’s light to show and a max of 2.5M if v3 is about Andromeda. Starlight from our Milky Way would accumulate from 4 years before. Thus we find in Gen 15, 2000 years after creation week, that starlight is as numerous as the sand on the beach. But that means, in the ordinary sense, that it started earlier.

You can say the light beams themselves were created, but not til Day 1 after a period of darkness. V2 does not mean the universe was dark, only the local.

It is odd that you have a problem with the BB for the distant worlds when that is the fact that is convincing many scientists of a created beginning. I’m simply accounting for a relationship between the distant and local.

 

[EarlyActs]

A convenient way to know the various Hebrew terms is the side-by-side qbible.com. Or a year of Hebrew. It is not as though it was written in English!

 

[ChristB4us]

To talk further , you need to be able to distinguish at least 2 concepts like 2 P3 does. One is that a mass explosion took place effecting the distant universe. God did this but it is not ‘shami and eretz’. It was prior. As 2P2 says, this from old; earth was formed through water. Not the same thing at all.

Gen 1 is later (recent) and not random at all. Everything is engineered and designed.

If you can’t accept that distinction , talk to someone else but not me.

You do know that the Greek word "pneuma" does not always refer to the Person of the Holy Spirit, right? It is defined by how it is used in the verse within the given message.

I believe you are missing the forest for all the trees when you ignore Genesis 2:1-3 for how God created everything in 6 days and rested the 7th day of what He had done in Genesis 1:1.

Ever noticed by claiming the event of Genesis 1:1 as having happened already by God, and time passed before doing your theoretical local creation that He did not say it was good in verse 1?

And then you have to explain the purpose for that creation event in Genesis 1:1. God did it for no reason whatsoever? Just felt like a little kid throwing building blocks all over the place?

Let me apply that to your misapplication of His words just so you can sell your book. If God bothered to NOT say it was good except for day 2 because He was NOT done creating the earth, and applied that to Genesis 1:1 has a separate event, it still does not negate the truth in His words that He rested on the 7th day from ALL He has made.

You cannot assign "yom" to a different meaning when day 6 ended with there is evening and morning since that first day.

There is no purpose to having a creation event before your so called local one when God created the heavens to gives lights to the earth for "signs" and that includes the distant stars in the heavens or did that escape your observation and discernment in His words?

Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Day 4 was when God created the heavens for the purpose of giving lights to the earth and that included all the lesser lights that would serve for signs to the earth.

 

[EarlyActs]

You're wrong about 'shami' and if you don't get out a qbible.com or similar side-by-side you won't see it. The text, vs 14-17, repeats many times how the 'shami' were placed or set exactly, but not the 'kavov.' It just adds almost absent-minded that they were there. Two different purposes,, two ways of manifesting them. So in that sense, Gen 1 is not trying to explain the distant worlds. Just like 2 P 3 on the universe vs the earth. The stars/universe in the distance is from earlier and random. (The sheer amount of the 'kavov' does have a 'story' later in Genesis in ch 15, which is about 2000 years later.)

You are very interested in the journal but you don't know what it says, which is a huge mistake, says Proverbs--to speak before a person has absorbed. It says evolution is a bombastic idea, but longer time itself is neutral and supportable (not infinite time of course) and Is $8 really so insufferable to hear a person with a master's in research (Regent College, Vancouver) and some 30 years gathering material?

The journal currently has reference to over 30 sources, so you might as well write off Cassuto, Schaeffer, Malone, Larson, Middelmann, etc.

Do not be worried that any essential component of Christian faith is disturbed: it upholds God's power and design, verbal revelation, sin and salvation, etc. But it may be the best job of integrating honest science with the text to date; that's not for me to say.

I do know it is better than Spike Psarris of Logos saying that Gen 1 says nothing about stars except that they are there; he didn't even deal with vocabulary in his starlight talk. A person absolutely must know the contents of 'shami' 'kavov' 'layla' and 'biraqia' ('shami' = biraqia' but not distant stars, and biraqia reaches as low as our weather, Day 2 ) There is no other source for 'layla' than distant stars on Day 1 because our local system was made on Day 4.

It's a lot to keep track of. 'There are many moving parts to the question'--my ad.

Corr: the firmament is 'laraqia' not 'biraqia'

 

[ChristB4us]

A convenient way to know the various Hebrew terms is the side-by-side qbible.com. Or a year of Hebrew. It is not as though it was written in English!

Neither was anything written in Chinese or any other language besides the Greek and the Hebrew, but no matter what translation, rightly dividing the word of truth with His wisdom is still required as Jesus did say this.

Matthew 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

....24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

And I believe this warning is for you, brother.

Matthew 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

I believe seeking riches by the selling of your book is clouding your seeing and hearing His words for why you are refusing correction, but only the Lord can help you see that so you can lean on Him for help to repent and write another book based on truth instead.

 

[EarlyActs]

You do know that the Greek word "pneuma" does not always refer to the Person of the Holy Spirit, right? It is defined by how it is used in the verse within the given message.

I believe you are missing the forest for all the trees when you ignore Genesis 2:1-3 for how God created everything in 6 days and rested the 7th day of what He had done in Genesis 1:1.

Ever noticed by claiming the event of Genesis 1:1 as having happened already by God, and time passed before doing your theoretical local creation that He did not say it was good in verse 1?

And then you have to explain the purpose for that creation event in Genesis 1:1. God did it for no reason whatsoever? Just felt like a little kid throwing building blocks all over the place?

Let me apply that to your misapplication of His words just so you can sell your book. If God bothered to NOT say it was good except for day 2 because He was NOT done creating the earth, and applied that to Genesis 1:1 has a separate event, it still does not negate the truth in His words that He rested on the 7th day from ALL He has made.

You cannot assign "yom" to a different meaning when day 6 ended with there is evening and morning since that first day.

There is no purpose to having a creation event before your so called local one when God created the heavens to gives lights to the earth for "signs" and that includes the distant stars in the heavens or did that escape your observation and discernment in His words?

Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Day 4 was when God created the heavens for the purpose of giving lights to the earth and that included all the lesser lights that would serve for signs to the earth.

V1 was not the event. It is a literary title, like 5:1.

If 'ruach' Spirit or maybe wind, is just wind, this is a statement of some duration of the dark, watery world. Of course, you may choose to 'miraculize' it and say God made wind motion miraculously. Why would He do that--there was no one there.

I make no claim that V1 was a previous creation. V1 is a section title. There are about 10 cases of sections having headings like it, which are not action ,like 5:1. There are also many cases of pre-existing conditions. On the cataclysm, there are many verses of pre-existing conditions, even though the still under the heading of the cataclysm.

In Ch 28 on Rachel, there is backstory about her relatives and beauty. Did she just have those relatives and beauty the day the story happened? No, she had them for some time, for years.

V8 Day 2 already said that the 'laraqi' was from our weather up to the markers, though they were not there yet, Day 4. There is nothing the distant things mark like the local. That is why they were designated names of nations around Israel, 12 sectors or zones. It is the moving things that had a communicative value. I have not even found a 'marking' significance in ancient history for the movement of the Milky Way; I mean not even in pagan sources either.

The 'kavov' are mentioned in an add on, but not as markers. There is a surprise coming about them that will not be unpacked until Gen 15, 2000 years later, when the shear number of them 'tells a story.' I believe very little is made of them, because they were not yet visible. Visibility increased as time went on, as their light arrived. This is valuable because it demonstrates that the narrative is actually in its real surroundings.

Is there some reason bothering you that you won't buy one of the books and get caught up?

 

[EarlyActs]

Neither was anything written in Chinese or any other language besides the Greek and the Hebrew, but no matter what translation, rightly dividing the word of truth with His wisdom is still required as Jesus did say this.

Matthew 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

....24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

And I believe this warning is for you, brother.

Matthew 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

I believe seeking riches by the selling of your book is clouding your seeing and hearing His words for why you are refusing correction, but only the Lord can help you see that so you can lean on Him for help to repent and write another book based on truth instead.

What does this have to do with knowing the Hebrew? You have time to quote 20 verses that don't relate, but you can't study the Hebrew in a rational way?

 

[EarlyActs]

Can you avoid that appearance of evil that you are serving mammon rather than God on this issue?

So basically you are trying to agree with the Big Bang theory and that God for one reason or another, decided to make our current local area of space, a work of art as opposed to the rest of the universe?

Then explain verse one below.

Genesis 2:1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

That says everything in the universe was created with the earth in 6 days for God to rest on the 7th day as written in Genesis 2:2-3.

Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

This is just as bad as another professing believer that argues for the Greek text for the participle that the scripture should read Jesus was rather " a " son of God rather than "the" Son of God in denying His deity and arguing against the existence of the Triune God.

Please, brother, believe God spoken everything in existence in 6 days for why He rested on the 7th day from ALL He has made.

The 8$ gets it to your door for almost nothing for me. I hope you will have gobs of money so that is not an issue.

 

[ChristB4us]

V1 was not the event. It is a literary title, like 5:1.

If 'ruach' Spirit or maybe wind, is just wind, this is a statement of some duration of the dark, watery world. Of course, you may choose to 'miraculize' it and say God made wind motion miraculously. Why would He do that--there was no one there.

Except the Triune God was there.

I make no claim that V1 was a previous creation. V1 is a section title. There are about 10 cases of sections having headings like it, which are not action ,like 5:1. There are also many cases of pre-existing conditions. On the cataclysm, there are many verses of pre-existing conditions, even though the still under the heading of the cataclysm.

Well like also Genesis 2:4 which was also about where the generations of mankind had come from for why that second creation account is a rehashing of the 6th day but in greater detail of where all mankind had come from.

Scripture did not originally come with numbered chapters and numbered verses but the first creation account ended in genesis 2:3 before starting that other topic about the generations of where mankind had come from but in greater detail that 6th day in Genesis 2:4.

The fact that in Genesis 2:5 testify that there was not a man yet to ill the ground means this is about the rehashing of the event on the 6th day of creation of man.

Now if you discern that Genesis 1:1 is the topic for how all those following verses from genesis 1:2 to Genesis 2:3 for how God did that in Genesis 1:1, then there was no "Big Bang" until day 4.

In Ch 28 on Rachel, there is backstory about her relatives and beauty. Did she just have those relatives and beauty the day the story happened? No, she had them for some time, for years.

Cannot be applied to the creation account.

V8 Day 2 already said that the 'laraqi' was from our weather up to the markers, though they were not there yet, Day 4. There is nothing the distant things mark like the local. That is why they were designated names of nations around Israel, 12 sectors or zones. It is the moving things that had a communicative value. I have not even found a 'marking' significance in ancient history for the movement of the Milky Way; I mean not even in pagan sources either.

Ever considered that the local markers ( the entire universe ) was created for that purpose? Granted, some use Venus, the moon, and the Sun like the Mayans, but God has used stars for signs as for other messages too.

Biblical Astronomy – The Gospel In The Stars

This Scriptural Calendar study shows how the constellations, sun and moon; declare the story of the Gospel. We’re not talking about astrology or horoscopes, but rather the grand design of the…

thescripturalcalendar.com

But if prejudiced against the Zodiac.... there is this

CHINESE EVIDENCE OF JESUS’ BIRTH, DEATH AND RESURRECTION (from the time of Christ) – Truth Is Life!

Quote from the second link "We already have evidence and proof for Jesus’ resurrection way beyond reasonable about according to many scholars. Even non-Christian scholars like Bart Ehrman agree that the evidence for the resurrection is better than the evidence for miracles in any other religion.

But this evidence from China is unique because it comes from cosmological sources which are beyond any human control and also ancient Chinese classics which have been verified by the atheist Chinese government as reliable history. It is also from a country far distant from Israel and from the same time Jesus lived. That should be logical enough to help eliminate any remaining doubt as to the fact that Jesus was born, died and rose again and that He cares enough to give evidence of His divinity to people in many cultures/nations throughout the world (researchers have documented evidence for God independent of the Bible in at least 300 major cultures)." end of quote

You can learn more at the link. One such excerpt I shall share below;

Quote from link "
!!SYMBOLS OF JESUS BIRTH!!
The Chinese were very interested in astronomy. The royal courts hired many astronomers to study the stars and write down important events that happened in the cosmos because they believed they could have major impacts on human lives. The Chinese astronomers recorded an incredible event in 5 BC.
“ 二年二月，彗星出牽牛七十餘日。傳曰: ‘彗所以除舊佈 新也. 牽牛，日、月、 五星所從起， 歷數之元， 三正之始。 彗而出之，改更之象也。其出 久者，爲其事大也.”

(漢書, 卷二十六, 天文志第六) Book of Han 《漢書》 卷二十六 天文志
Volume 26: Treatise on Astronomy
http://chinesenotes.com/hanshu/hanshu030.html (starts at 2nd to last paragraph)

In English, it says
“In the second month of the second year [of Jian Ping, emperor of that time], the comet was out of Altair for more than 70 days…It is said, ‘Comets appear to signify the old being replaced by the new.’ Altair, the sun, the moon and the five stars are in movement to signify the beginning of a new epoch; The beginning of a new year, a new month and a new day…The appearance of this comet undoubtedly symbolizes change. The extended appearance of this comet indicates that this is of great importance.”
Astronomy Records of the Book of the Han Dynasty" ~~ end of quote

So not just involving the planet Venus, the moon, and the stars that were to serve as signs to the earth.

The 'kavov' are mentioned in an add on, but not as markers. There is a surprise coming about them that will not be unpacked until Gen 15, 2000 years later, when the shear number of them 'tells a story.' I believe very little is made of them, because they were not yet visible. Visibility increased as time went on, as their light arrived. This is valuable because it demonstrates that the narrative is actually in its real surroundings.

Is there some reason bothering you that you won't buy one of the books and get caught up?

Wisdom comes from the Lord through His words and cannot be taught by other men.

I believe it is a mistake to minimize the markers as just our solar system when I believe the Lord meant the whole universe as our markers and yet they were created for that purpose on the 4th day.

 

[ChristB4us]

What does this have to do with knowing the Hebrew? You have time to quote 20 verses that don't relate, but you can't study the Hebrew in a rational way?

Just trying to address that assigning Hebrew terms to the creation of the heavens and the earth as separate from the rest of the universe is a mistake.

 

[CrowCross]

You do know that the Greek word "pneuma" does not always refer to the Person of the Holy Spirit, right? It is defined by how it is used in the verse within the given message.

I believe you are missing the forest for all the trees when you ignore Genesis 2:1-3 for how God created everything in 6 days and rested the 7th day of what He had done in Genesis 1:1.

Ever noticed by claiming the event of Genesis 1:1 as having happened already by God, and time passed before doing your theoretical local creation that He did not say it was good in verse 1?

And then you have to explain the purpose for that creation event in Genesis 1:1. God did it for no reason whatsoever? Just felt like a little kid throwing building blocks all over the place?

Let me apply that to your misapplication of His words just so you can sell your book. If God bothered to NOT say it was good except for day 2 because He was NOT done creating the earth, and applied that to Genesis 1:1 has a separate event, it still does not negate the truth in His words that He rested on the 7th day from ALL He has made.

You cannot assign "yom" to a different meaning when day 6 ended with there is evening and morning since that first day.

There is no purpose to having a creation event before your so called local one when God created the heavens to gives lights to the earth for "signs" and that includes the distant stars in the heavens or did that escape your observation and discernment in His words?

Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Day 4 was when God created the heavens for the purpose of giving lights to the earth and that included all the lesser lights that would serve for signs to the earth.

There is the theory that the "angels" inhabited earth...as well as the planet Rahab and Mars prior to the utter destruction of Rahab and the Earth becoming "without form and void."

I can see Rahab being shattered and becoming the asteroid field but I don't see the shattering as happening pre-Genesis 1.