Grace is help not to sin.

[Ghada]

Then your entire op is refuted as far as Calvinism goes.

This isn't about Calvin, but you.

"When Christians sin there is no condemnation."

Calvin never taught this modern OSAS unconditional salvation.

Calvinism does NOT teach the grace of man is help in time of sinning not to be condemned for it. I do not know anyone who teaches that nonsense.

"When Christians sin there is no condemnation."

Show me someone who teaches man's grace is help in time of sinning not to be condemned

"When Christians sin there is no condemnation."

 

[Ghada]

That has yet to be evidenced.

If you want to also say Calvin was a preacher of unrighteousness, like you, then so be it.

Prove it.

You preach Calvin predeterminism.

You preach this: "When Christians sin there is no condemnation."

. Show me one leading Calvinist teaching something called "unconditional eternal salvation."

None I know of, except for your suggesting he was a preacher of unrighteousness.

. Show me someone teaching man's grace is help not to be condemned when sinning.

"When Christians sin there is no condemnation."

Show me someone using Calvinism to justify continued unrighteous living with no more condemnation.

"When Christians sin there is no condemnation."

Show me any authoritative Calvinist document stating such things.

Don't know of any. Never said there was any teaching of unrighteousness to Christians, that is not condemned by God.

Do it now, please.

"When Christians sin there is no condemnation."

 

[Mr GLee]

Which is it? Is it unconditional, conditional, or only one condition?

Its conditional. The condition elected from the foundation of the world.

 

[donadams]

Not to those who say grace is help to sin, but no more be condemned for it.

Scripture says there is condemnation for sin???


1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Are changing to “sin all you want just keep faith”? That’s was a quote from Martin Luther (h)

Jesus Christ says “go and sin no more”!

Thks

 

[Ghada]

Scripture says there is condemnation for sin???

No. Some self-justifying Christians say their continued sinning is no more condemned.

They think they can stop God from judging them by their works, through the power of the their faith, will, and doctrine alone.

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die

For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing both good and evil.

No man will play his own doctrine-free card from the grave.

Are changing to “sin all you want just keep faith”? That’s was a quote from Martin Luther (h)

If so, then he also did great damage to the gospel of faith in Jesus Christ, when breaking free from the yoke of Catholic bondage.

Jesus Christ says “go and sin no more”!

Amen brother Smart!

 

[Mr GLee]

Scripture says there is condemnation for sin???


1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Are changing to “sin all you want just keep faith”? That’s was a quote from Martin Luther (h)

Jesus Christ says “go and sin no more”!

Thks

There is no condemnation of those who have received the fullness of grace .The whole cost of salvation receiving the end of their new born again faith from the beginning(.1 Peter 1_)

Catholicism says mankind with the exception of a queen of heaven received a unknown remnant of Christ's grace and after they take thier last breath they suffer and wonder with no end in sight. The doctrine of wondering

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, (temporal things seen but after the Spirit.(the unseen eternal )

Why no condemnation? Christ paid the full cost tp all born again from above

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed,(fleshly dying) but of incorruptible, by the word of God, (the eternal seed) which liveth and abideth for ever.

 

[donadams]

No. Some self-justifying Christians say their continued sinning is no more condemned.

They think they can stop God from judging them by their works, through the power of the their faith, will, and doctrine alone.

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die

For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing both good and evil.

No man will play his own doctrine-free card from the grave.


If so, then he also did great damage to the gospel of faith in Jesus Christ, when breaking free from the yoke of Catholic bondage.


Amen brother Smart!

I agree but your wording is a little confusing
Try to slow down a bit, our brains work faster than our hands.

Keep the faith!

 

[Mr GLee]

No. Some self-justifying Christians say their continued sinning is no more condemned.

They think they can stop God from judging them by their works, through the power of the their faith, will, and doctrine alone.

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die

For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing both good and evil.

No man will play his own doctrine-free card from the grave.

Self justifying? or justified by the fullness of Christ grace the whole price of salvation?,

Mankind dead in their tresspasses and sin continue to fall short of his glory .Its why we pray give us this food of forgiveness every day

All sinners have sinned and continue till the last day

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

 

[donadams]

There is no condemnation of those who have received the fullness of grace .The whole cost of salvation receiving the end of their new born again faith from the beginning(.1 Peter 1_)

Catholicism says mankind with the exception of a queen of heaven received a unknown remnant of Christ's grace and after they take thier last breath they suffer and wonder with no end in sight. The doctrine of wondering

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, (temporal things seen but after the Spirit.(the unseen eternal )

Why no condemnation? Christ paid the full cost tp all born again from above

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed,(fleshly dying) but of incorruptible, by the word of God, (the eternal seed) which liveth and abideth for ever.

who says you are going to stay in Christ? Jn 15:4 “abide in me” that requires a choice to continue to do so!
(Dogma)
113. Without the special help of God the justified cannot persevere to the end in justification.
114. The justified person is not able for his whole life long to avoid all sins, even venial sins,
without the special privilege of the grace of God.

So ask and you shall receive! Matt 7:7 Lk 11:9

 

[Ghada]

Self justifying?

Yes.

or justified by the fullness of Christ grace the whole price of salvation?,

No. No man is justified with Christ while doing their own dead works of sin.

All doing unrighteousness are condemned in the judgement of works, and shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Mankind dead in their tresspasses and sin continue to fall short of his glory .

True. All sinners and trespassers are dead in their sins and trespasses, including the unrepented ones naming the name of Christ.

They repented saints in Christ Jesus are not still dead in their old sins and trespassed, because they are no more doing them.

Its why we pray give us this food of forgiveness every day

Those sinning everyday need forgiveness everyday. They also need to repent of sinning every day, so as to be saved and delivered from their sinning everyday.

All sinners have sinned and continue till the last day

All unrepented ones certainly do. Especially them that indoctrinate themselves into it, to ensure they do.

If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

Not every sinner, nor sinning Christian, is enuring they go to hell by doctrinally justifying their sinning, and justifying tyhemselves while sinning. That self-justification and doctrine ends in the grave, when God goes on and judges us all by our works.

Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

True. Except Jesus Christ.

But not all are now sinning and dead to Jesus Christ.

If it makes you feel better or really humble, then you can also apply to yourself the Scripture of being no good, and doing no righteousness, which is for them that say there is no God.

It all ends at the grave anyway, and we will be judged and justified by works, or condemned.

You might just want to go ahead and repent of your continued sinning against Christ, to be made free with Christ.

But, I have found Christians swallowing the lie of justification by faith alone, have given up on repenting God's way. They settle for their own half-hearted way of religiously sinning less than before.

 

[Mr GLee]

Yes.

Is it OK the justify oneself?

No. No man is justified with Christ while doing their own dead works of sin.

Christ forgives all of our transgression its called salvation. Are you without sin?

But not all are now sinning and dead to Jesus Christ.

How many fall short of the glory of God ? For all have sinned and continue to fall short of His Glory.all will fall short of His glory until the day they die

Even Jesus as the Son of man who did not sin. Fell short of the glory of being God . He was a reflection but not the source. The Father not seen alone is Glorious

Romans 3:23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

 

[Ghada]

Is it OK the justify oneself?

No. And not everyone does justify themselves. That's why some do repent of their sinning for Jesus' sake. Others either care nothing for doing evil, or indoctrinate themselves by their own faith from being condemned for their sinning.

These doctrinal self-justifiers are the ones being rebuked.

Jer 1:16
And I will utter my judgments against them touching all their wickedness, who have forsaken me, and have burned incense unto other gods, and worshipped the works of their own hands.

Like the rebellious children of Israel of old, some Christians delcare their own sinning is not judged by the Lord.

They doctrinally do so by believing in unconditonal salvation by grace alone. One of the many outshoots of that unscriptural gospel, is that grace helps them to cover their from God's jdugment.

The grace of God is help not to sin, not to be uncondemned while sinning.

Christ forgives all of our transgression its called salvation.

This is the true promise of Jesus Christ, for them that repent of sinning for Jesus' sake.

It is made into another offshoot lie of salvation by faith alone, by declaring Jesus Christ already has forgiven all present and future sinning, as well as past sinning.

Rom 3:25
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

2Pe 1:9
But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

Jesus Christ only forgives past sinning, that is repented of after a godly manner:

2Co 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Forgiveness unto salvation and jsutification, is only by repentance from our own dead works.

 

[Ghada]

Are you without sin?

First off, the question is wrong, because it means I have never sinned. Jesus is the only man that could say He was 'without sin', because He had never sinned.

Secondly, the question itself implies that those sinning are somehow justified and not condemned, because others are sinning like them. The flood disproves that self-justifying theory.

Thirdly, even if 'everyone's doing it', the truth that Jesus did not sin and is without sin, condemns all them sinning against God, because man has lived in the flesh on earth without disobeying God.

And finally, the legitimate question is if I am sinning.

No. I am not sinning, nor have I sinned today against my Lord. Tomorrow is another day to endure temptation, if it comes.

Mat 6:34
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

And it's the only question that matters, because God's judgment is upon our works we are now doing, not for yesterday that is past, nor for tomorrow that may not come.

God does not remember past unrighteous, when we turn to do His will. Nor does He remember past righteousness, if we turn against His will.

Another legitimate and all important question in like manner, is if we now have sin.

1Jo 3:5
And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

No one in Christ Jesus has sin, in whom is no sin. Not because they are covered by their own grace, to not be condemned for sinning, as though they have no sin. But rather because them in Christ Jesus, have repented from their sinning for His sake.

Only those now sinning have lust in their heart to sin by:

Jas 1:13
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

Jas 1:14
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

How many fall short of the glory of God ?

True. Many, not all.

For all have sinned and continue to fall short of His Glory.

True. All men save one have sinned and made themselves enemies of God. Which is why all men must repent for Jesus' sake, to be saved from sinning against Him.

Act 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Mat 1:21
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

1Jo 3:5
And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

all will fall short of His glory until the day they die

What happened to only many? Now it's all are sinning and shall still be sinning?

Once again, just because we want to believe everyone else is like us, doesn't mean it's so. And as we've seen, even if everyone on earth is still sinning like you, that only means no one is saved and justified by Jesus Christ.

Not everyone is wilfully sinning unto death:

1Jo 5:16
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

And even fewer willing sinners guarrantee they do so unto death, by indoctrinating themselves into it. God says in such cases of wilful sinning without repentance, not to even pray for them, since they have set themselves to do so unto the end. It's the same as when the Lord commanded Samuel to stop wasting his time praying for king Saul, since the Lord had already rejected him, by knowing that Saul had already turned away from Him unto death.

That's why certain doctrines are so pernicisouly destructive, because they convince people to not bother repenting of all their sinning, since they have determined they will always continue doing some sins and trespasses.

It's another offshoot of justification by faith alone. They declare they will always be sinning on earth from 'time to time'.

 

[Ghada]

Even Jesus as the Son of man who did not sin. Fell short of the glory of being God .

This appears to be a new and unique way of preaching perfection of God on the throne, as the gospel standard for any man living on earth.

Some do so to justify their sinning, because it's impossible to be like God on the throne, and so fall short of the glory of God in heaven.

Once again, it fails by the example of Jesus proving otherwise. As well as the Scripture confirming His glory on earth:

Jhn 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

If the glory of Jesus Christ is not with us, and seen of men, it's because Jesus Christ is not with us.

His gospel does not call us to the glory of God with His angels in heaven, but rather promises us the glory of God with man on earth, if we repent for His Son's sake:

Mat 1:23
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

2Pe 1:2
Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
2Pe 1:3
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

The glory of God we are called to, and not fall short of, is the virtue of Jesus Christ, not the perfection of God's throneroom.

Jas 1:12
Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Jas 1:13
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

No man on earth is without temptation, including Jesus who was tempted like all men on earth. Only God in heaven is not tempted to sin, which also now includes the resurrection Lord and man Christ Jesus seated at His right hand.

Jesus was tempted as all men on earth, and is now no more tempted like God in heaven.

And it's not falling short of God's glory on earth, nor is it a sin to be tempted. It is failiing to be as God in heaven not tempted at any time, but that is not a sin fallen short of on earth.

2Pe 1:3
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:5
And with this, give all diligence to add to your faith virtue;

Not all men on earth, like Jesus Christ, are now falling short of His glorious virtue, by falling to temptation and condemnation of disobeying Him and not doing His will.

The will of God in heaven, is to not fall short of His calling by transgressing His law. His calling to virtue, is not to not be tempted at all.

 

[Ghada]

He was a reflection but not the source.

Now you are implying the Word was not made flesh, and Jesus Christ was not God in the flesh?

The light seen is the source seen. There is no such thing as a light seen, that is not the source of that light. When we see the sunlight, we see the sun. When we see candlelight, we see the candle lit.

Rev 21:22
And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
Rev 21:23
And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

God and the Lamb are the eternal temple and light of God. Father and Son are God. Jesus Christ was God come in the flesh.

The Scripture does not say Jesus is come in the flesh, but Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. The Word and Christ and Lamb of God, is God the Son.

Jesus Christ is God come in the flesh.

An antichrists deny Jesus Christ is come in the flesh in several ways. One being denial that Christ the Messiah is the LORD come in the flesh.

Jesus Christ came to the Jews that knew the promise of the LORD coming to earth Himself, to reign over all nations.

Jhn 10:33
The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Many rejected Him, because their did not want any LORD and God saving them from their own sinning, but only a Messiah and Christ delivering them from the rule of their enemies.

The resurrected Lord Jesus Christ will deliver all men from unjust and corrupt rulers on earth, when He comes a second time with His angels through the air.

The Father not seen alone is Glorious

Ok, so you deny the Son is God.

This ties into your satement about Jesus not sinning, but also 'falling short' of the glory of God. I.e. the Son's glory beheld on earth was His own, not God's with man. Which was God's with man, since God was with man in the flesh.

Mat 1:23
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

The created christ makers don't deny Jesus never sinned, but only deny Jesus Christ is God come in the flesh.

2Jo 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Other antichrists do the same by denying Jesus Christ is come in the flesh of man, but rather in some other kind of superhuman immortal flesh of the old pagan gods.

 

[Ghada]

I agree but your wording is a little confusing
Try to slow down a bit, our brains work faster than our hands.

Keep the faith!

Right. I try to speak doctrinally at times, when I could just say God does not justify anyone sinning against Him.

Jesus does not justify sinning. He takes the sinning away.

 

[Mr GLee]

Now you are implying the Word was not made flesh, and Jesus Christ was not God in the flesh?

The light seen is the source seen. There is no such thing as a light seen, that is not the source of that light. When we see the sunlight, we see the sun. When we see candlelight, we see the candle lit.

The word of God was demonstrated by the dying flesh of the Son of man, Jesus. Making his will known through the prophet Jesus Not in respect to his dying flesh and blood.

Yes, the Father is the source of light. God is light (Love and Spirit) and not that he can only create it calling it "under the Sun" the temporal as he has called it .

Jesus, the Son of man like the moon reflects the glory of the Father. It's why I believe he call us children of light as we hold out the gospel of light.

The many stars prophesied

Hebrews 11:12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

There are numerous examples that uses the temporal dying things seen to give us his eternal understanding of the gospel, the unseen things of God used as parables. I would offer one below that uses the metaphoric language of parables. It can make an interesting study.

A picture of Christ as the bridegroom on the wedding day completing all the work needed. The bride receives the new incorruptible body the completed circuit.

Psalm 19 King James Versio The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.

 

[donadams]

Right. I try to speak doctrinally at times, when I could just say God does not justify anyone sinning against Him.

Jesus does not justify sinning. He takes the sinning away.

Have you heard of this heresy?

Antinomianism heresy: The belief that Christians are not bound by God’s law and are free to sin as they please; That Jesus' prevents them from the guilt of sin.

 

[Ghada]

Jesus, the Son of man like the moon reflects the glory of the Father.

Jesus Christ is not a moon.

Nor was He moonlighting on earth.

 

[Ghada]

Have you heard of this heresy?

Antinomianism heresy: The belief that Christians are not bound by God’s law and are free to sin as they please; That Jesus' prevents them from the guilt of sin.

Yes.
Romans
{4:15} Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, [there is] no transgression.

Sin and transgression is made known by the law of God, and so if there is no law, then there is no transgression for God to judge. It's not that they preach sinning at will, but that there is no more sinning anyone can do anymore, that God can condemn.

They have literally turned their Christianity into a religion of atheism. Atheists deny there is any such thing as 'sinning' against God, since there is no God to sin against.

Another way to do away with the law, is to say the law was killed on the cross with Jesus' body, and is now dead.

Gal
{2:18} For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. {2:19} For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

The law is not dead. We are dead to prosecution by the law, if we are dead to transgression of the law.

Romans
{10:4} For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
They say the law of God is ended at the cross. If that's the case, then so is the commandment of God ended, as well as faith:

1 Tim
{1:5} Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and [of] a good conscience, and [of] faith unfeigned:
1 Peter
{1:8} Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see [him] not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: {1:9} Receiving the end of your faith, [even] the salvation of [your] souls.
It simply means that the end goal of the law when obeyed from the heart is true righteousness of God. Just as the end result of God's commandment is a pure heart, and of His faith is the salvation of our souls.

All such childish games with the Bible are only to justify continued sinning:

2 Tim
{2:16} But shun profane [and] vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

There is a benefit however to addressing this stuff. The need to accurately refute it by Scripture, leads the serious believer to know more exactly what God's words are saying. And so, the end of rebuking error is a more perfect understand of the truth.