- Joined
- May 27, 2023
- Messages
- 7,432
- Reaction score
- 6,697
- Points
- 175
- Faith
- Christian/Reformed
- Country
- US
- Politics
- conservative
When we look at the modern church and all the many deceptions in it that professed Christians fall victim to; and even looking back through all of post incarnation history and the things that have taken place within Christ's church and also to his saints in the name of his church; it very well may look to us as though not only has Satan won many battles with God, but within the church as well. Here when I say church, I mean the invisible church that is made up of all believers of all time. But it is in the visible churches and those in them that deceptions are often manifested. Just as Paul said would happen in Acts 20:28-20. And as Jesus prophesied in Matt 7:15, 21-23.
Is Satan winning battles? Has he ever won a single battle in this ongoing war? No and he cannot. If he ever wins he must do so by overpowering God. He must do so by thwarting God's purposes. To do so would make God not the God he says he is. He would not be omnipotent and Isa 46:9-10 "I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, 'My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose." would be a lie.
Job 42:2; Isa 14:27; Dan 4:35; Isa 55:11, and countless others where God declares himself to be sovereign over all creation and its inhabitants, would not be true.
So what is going on when those who are truly his, fall victim to false teachings, and on a massive scale, much of the modern church is clueless, devoid of sound doctrine and never acquainted with the art of rightly dividing (handling) the word of God, from the top (the one in the pulpit who is supposed to be feeding and caring for his flock) down?
Well I am not God, so of course I cannot answer that with any absolute. For one thing, everything he does is multifaceted in its purpose, but always moving towards the singular purpose of redemption. A new creation inhabited by the redeemed in Christ and the conquest of sin and death, and the complete destruction of the evil one. And it is all for his glory.
But here is something I "saw", as I was pondering this condition of the church in relation to whether or not deceptions that overtake a true Christian are victories for the enemy, a truth I believe, and welcome comment and correction and clarification. And I identify it as true because, as far as I know, it is verifiable in Scripture. Scripture was what I based it on. And it is not naming his purpose in this tearing down of the apostolic walls and foundation as given in Scripture that he is allowing; rather it is a verification that Satan has never won and never will win a single battle, no matter what it looks like from our perspective. And most important, how God gets glory from it. A glory inexpressible, yet if seen, can overwhelm us with knowing God. Rather than simply knowing things about him. I will try to keep it brief but comprehensive. After that I will clarify why this is in the Arminianism/Calvinism thread.
On the cross Jesus conquered the power of sin and death for his people (Heb 2:14; 2 Tim 1:8-10; 1 Peter 2:24; Gal 2:20; Isa 25:8).
There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ (Romans 8:1-4, 31-39).
So where is the glory of God seen in the deceptions that have crept into his church?
If salvation is of God in all its elements; election, new birth, faith, justification, sanctification; if God has elected and called a person to Christ as the Bible clearly declares (Eph 1:3-6; Romans 8:28-30; Acts 13:48; Mark 13:27); Satan cannot lay curse upon them (Proverbs 26:2). The evil one cannot stand before the tribunal of God as he did in Job 1, and condemn them (Romans 8:31-39).
If, as Scripture declares, Jesus will lose none that the Father has given him (John 6:37-39); then Satan has never won a single battle or ever thwarted the purposes of God. The glory to God and the work of our Savior, who is himself God with us, is that no matter what Satan does or attempts to do in his attack on God's people, the true church, he cannot keep a single one of them our of his hands. He cannot prevent them from hearing the voice of the shepherd and following him, and he cannot take any out of Jesus' hands. The devil is powerless against God. He cannot do this, even in the midst of deceptions that he is the author of. It is God who regenerates a heart and it is the heart that God alone knows and is looking at. Not the outward appearance, no matter how loud the noise or how far reaching.
If one believes in prevenient grace (that the cross provided enough grace to override our condition of being completely at enmity with God (Romans 3:10-12; Romans 8:7-8)so that everyone without exception now has the ability to choose whether to accept salvation, they have lost the God who is, at least in theological sense of his self revelation. If this is the case, one can lose sight of how God's glory is displayed even in his allowing widespread deception in the visible church. IMV it is this libertarian free will as it has developed in various modern forms, that contributes to the theological instability we see today in the post modern church. If no cohesive doctrine grounded solely in Scripture exists, there remains little foundation for discerning truth from error
In adding choice in the matter to what belongs to God alone, salvation, they have made God to be reactive, not sovereign; this in turn can only lead to it being possible for Satan to have won many battles against God, and God being powerless to protect his church.
In short, there will be places where the glory of God is expressed deeply, and profoundly, ---even in his allowing widespread deception as outlined above,---where in witnessing these things, we come to know him more intimately. But without a consistent theological grounding of who he reveals himself to be in Scripture, what is truly a manifestation of God's glory may be misinterpreted as a victory for Satan.
Is Satan winning battles? Has he ever won a single battle in this ongoing war? No and he cannot. If he ever wins he must do so by overpowering God. He must do so by thwarting God's purposes. To do so would make God not the God he says he is. He would not be omnipotent and Isa 46:9-10 "I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, 'My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose." would be a lie.
Job 42:2; Isa 14:27; Dan 4:35; Isa 55:11, and countless others where God declares himself to be sovereign over all creation and its inhabitants, would not be true.
So what is going on when those who are truly his, fall victim to false teachings, and on a massive scale, much of the modern church is clueless, devoid of sound doctrine and never acquainted with the art of rightly dividing (handling) the word of God, from the top (the one in the pulpit who is supposed to be feeding and caring for his flock) down?
Well I am not God, so of course I cannot answer that with any absolute. For one thing, everything he does is multifaceted in its purpose, but always moving towards the singular purpose of redemption. A new creation inhabited by the redeemed in Christ and the conquest of sin and death, and the complete destruction of the evil one. And it is all for his glory.
But here is something I "saw", as I was pondering this condition of the church in relation to whether or not deceptions that overtake a true Christian are victories for the enemy, a truth I believe, and welcome comment and correction and clarification. And I identify it as true because, as far as I know, it is verifiable in Scripture. Scripture was what I based it on. And it is not naming his purpose in this tearing down of the apostolic walls and foundation as given in Scripture that he is allowing; rather it is a verification that Satan has never won and never will win a single battle, no matter what it looks like from our perspective. And most important, how God gets glory from it. A glory inexpressible, yet if seen, can overwhelm us with knowing God. Rather than simply knowing things about him. I will try to keep it brief but comprehensive. After that I will clarify why this is in the Arminianism/Calvinism thread.
On the cross Jesus conquered the power of sin and death for his people (Heb 2:14; 2 Tim 1:8-10; 1 Peter 2:24; Gal 2:20; Isa 25:8).
There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ (Romans 8:1-4, 31-39).
So where is the glory of God seen in the deceptions that have crept into his church?
If salvation is of God in all its elements; election, new birth, faith, justification, sanctification; if God has elected and called a person to Christ as the Bible clearly declares (Eph 1:3-6; Romans 8:28-30; Acts 13:48; Mark 13:27); Satan cannot lay curse upon them (Proverbs 26:2). The evil one cannot stand before the tribunal of God as he did in Job 1, and condemn them (Romans 8:31-39).
If, as Scripture declares, Jesus will lose none that the Father has given him (John 6:37-39); then Satan has never won a single battle or ever thwarted the purposes of God. The glory to God and the work of our Savior, who is himself God with us, is that no matter what Satan does or attempts to do in his attack on God's people, the true church, he cannot keep a single one of them our of his hands. He cannot prevent them from hearing the voice of the shepherd and following him, and he cannot take any out of Jesus' hands. The devil is powerless against God. He cannot do this, even in the midst of deceptions that he is the author of. It is God who regenerates a heart and it is the heart that God alone knows and is looking at. Not the outward appearance, no matter how loud the noise or how far reaching.
If one believes in prevenient grace (that the cross provided enough grace to override our condition of being completely at enmity with God (Romans 3:10-12; Romans 8:7-8)so that everyone without exception now has the ability to choose whether to accept salvation, they have lost the God who is, at least in theological sense of his self revelation. If this is the case, one can lose sight of how God's glory is displayed even in his allowing widespread deception in the visible church. IMV it is this libertarian free will as it has developed in various modern forms, that contributes to the theological instability we see today in the post modern church. If no cohesive doctrine grounded solely in Scripture exists, there remains little foundation for discerning truth from error
In adding choice in the matter to what belongs to God alone, salvation, they have made God to be reactive, not sovereign; this in turn can only lead to it being possible for Satan to have won many battles against God, and God being powerless to protect his church.
In short, there will be places where the glory of God is expressed deeply, and profoundly, ---even in his allowing widespread deception as outlined above,---where in witnessing these things, we come to know him more intimately. But without a consistent theological grounding of who he reveals himself to be in Scripture, what is truly a manifestation of God's glory may be misinterpreted as a victory for Satan.
Last edited:
