Free will. What is it?

[Eternally-Grateful]

In another thread, @makesends, @ElectedbyHim and myself started to get into a discussion about free will and it was suggested we open another thread. So here is a thread.

I will start by saying in my view, free will is the ability to choose between two or more options. IE, ADAM had to chose between following God or following his wife. And chose to follow his wife.

Abraham had to chose between believing God and doing what God asked him to do. Or not believing God and staying where he was at his fathers house.

I look forward to other views and what they think free will means. I believe strongly it is essential to understand a persons view to be able to understand what they are saying. I am sure not everyone sees it as i do. So if I interpret what they say as per my defenition. I will not be able to understand what they are saying, and the discussion will go downhill fast.

 

[ElectedbyHim]

In another thread, @makesends, @ElectedbyHim and myself started to get into a discussion about free will and it was suggested we open another thread. So here is a thread.

I will start by saying in my view, free will is the ability to choose between two or more options. IE, ADAM had to chose between following God or following his wife. And chose to follow his wife.

Abraham had to chose between believing God and doing what God asked him to do. Or not believing God and staying where he was at his fathers house.

I look forward to other views and what they think free will means. I believe strongly it is essential to understand a persons view to be able to understand what they are saying. I am sure not everyone sees it as i do. So if I interpret what they say as per my defenition. I will not be able to understand what they are saying, and the discussion will go downhill fast.

Thanks for starting this new thread.

You opened up a whole can of worms and will have many replies, it will be very edifying conversation.

I will be contributing to this thread periodically as time allows with work.

As for free will, this says to me, that humans have the ability to choose salvation and also renounce their salvation.

I do not find either Biblical.

Until tomorrow.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Carbon]

I believe man has free will. Sound weird for a Calvinist?

 

[ElectedbyHim]

I believe man has free will. Sound weird for a Calvinist?

Free to sin?

 

[Carbon]

I’ll explain my reasoning later.
But for now I will just say, “man has free will according to his nature.”
I’m not talking about libertarian free will.

 

[fastfredy0]

free will is the ability to choose between two or more options.

This definition is inadequate. It is more like the definition of one's will without a definition of the "free" adjective in front of the word "will".
What is the definition of FREE? FREE from what?
I can offer a person a $1,000,000,000,000 and your definition of "free will" would fit as the person would be able to chose to take and not take the money. Similarly, I can tell a person I will put a knife in their chest, but the decision will be up to them. Again, this would be an example of your definition of a person to exercise "free will".

There are two definitions of "free will" that are commonly used that I know of:
1) Libertarian free will means that our choices are free from the determination or constraints of human nature and free from any predetermination by God. All "free will theists" hold that libertarian freedom is essential for moral responsibility, for if our choice is determined or caused by anything, including our own desires, they reason, it cannot properly be called a free choice. Libertarian freedom is, therefore, the freedom to act contrary to one's nature, predisposition and greatest desires. Responsibility, in this view, always means that one could have done otherwise.
2) God or anyone else determines any of your choices.

Without a clearer definition of "free will" I don't see this discussion going well.

 

[Carbon]

Free to sin?

Well I don’t believe anyone ever sins against their will.

 

[fastfredy0]

But for now I will just say, “man has free will according to his nature.”
I’m not talking about libertarian free will.

You have to give a definition of "free will" and we will have to assume you agree with the author of the thread who defines "free will" as "the ability to choose between two or more options".

 

[Carbon]

Well I don’t believe anyone ever sins against their will.

We sin because we want to, we enjoy it. I might even go as far to say, we love it

 

[Carbon]

You have to give a definition of "free will" and we will have to assume you agree with the author of the thread who defines "free will" as "the ability to choose between two or more options".

Well if I have in front of me, three flavors of ice cream, let’s say: vanilla, chocolate, strawberry.
Am I not free to choose which one I want and eat it?
Of course I am. I may pick chocolate because it’s my favorite.
However, I did not choose my tastebuds.

Does this make sense?

 

[fastfredy0]

We sin because we want to, we enjoy it. I might even go as far to say, we love it

Why do we love 'sin'? What is the cause"?

 

[Carbon]

Why do we love 'sin'? What is the cause"?

The flesh.

 

[fastfredy0]

Well if I have in front of me, three flavors of ice cream, let’s say: vanilla, chocolate, strawberry.
Am I not free to choose which one I want and eat it?
Of course I am. I may pick chocolate because it’s my favorite.
However, I did not choose my tastebuds.

You are "free" from what? What determined your choice?

 

[Carbon]

You are "free" from what? What determined your choice?

Well I haven’t ever noticed anyone forcing me to eat a certain flavor. Have you?

 

[fastfredy0]

Why do we love 'sin'? What is the cause"?

The flesh.

... what is the cause of your 'flesh" (I assume this is synonymous to 'sin nature') causing you to chose? ... and if you say Adam I will ask "what caused Adam to chose to eat the forbidden fruit"?

 

[Carbon]

Well I haven’t ever noticed anyone forcing me to eat a certain flavor. Have you?

@fastfredy0
Or I can say. What determined my choice?

My tastebuds

 

[fastfredy0]

Well I haven’t ever noticed anyone forcing me to eat a certain flavor. Have you?

I haven't noticed the Spirit causing me to be regenerated, but the doesn't mean He did not do so>

 

[fastfredy0]

Or I can say. What determined my choice?

My tastebuds

... and what was the cause of your taste buds to be the way they are? (Hint: eventually we will get to the First Cause) lol

 

[Carbon]

Why do we love 'sin'? What is the cause"?

... what is the cause of your 'flesh" (I assume this is synonymous to 'sin nature') causing you to chose? ... and if you say Adam I will ask "what caused Adam to chose to eat the forbidden fruit?

I’m not following, I don’t think.
But we all have a fallen nature. Until we are glorified we will carry this old man around.

But if you have another thought or understanding, please share it. I’m always willing to learn.

 

[fastfredy0]

’m not following, I don’t think.

Every effect has a cause. It's called the Law of Causality.
Causality is a connection of phenomena through which one thing (the cause) under certain conditions gives rise to, causes something else (the effect). The first cause must be from a source that is eternal. God is the only eternal entity [and thus his being is causeless] and thus the ‘first cause’ of all things. Thus, the God is the cause of the human will, thus man’s will is not free; rather, it is designed by God.