Eternal Torment of the wicked

[David1701]

Is it possible that isn't referencing Satan?

The whole passage is addressed to the Prince of Tyre, who then became King of Tyre. He is a type of Satan.

 

[Carbon]

If people are "destroyed" in hell upon death (this is including all who have died outside of Christ) which means to no longer exist to some, it's quite strange that someone who no longer exists, who has gone *poof* is then cast into the Lake of Fire.

Indeed! Great point!

 

[David1701]

Study the word Gehenna

It was a rubbish dump, outside the city wall of Jerusalem. It was on fire and the fire never went out, because it was constantly supplied with more rubbish. This is like the tormented wicked, who are continually punished with fire, in hell. Their sinful nature never stops producing sin, so the fire has perpetual fuel.

 

[Eleanor]

If people are "destroyed" in hell upon death (this is including all who have died outside of Christ) which means to no longer exist to some, it's quite strange that someone who no longer exists, who has gone *poof* is then cast into the Lake of Fire.

Not to mention no appearing for the Final Judgment.

 

[Deleted member 5]

The whole passage is addressed to the Prince of Tyre, who then became King of Tyre. He is a type of Satan.

Yes. I believe when it talks about men dying in Scripture, that they are no more, it is related to the fact that they will never be seen again on earth. There is a passage that deals with that term elsewhere, but I cannot recall where. It's somewhere in the Psalms, or Job, or Proverbs iirc.

If you know the passage I am thinking of, let me know, lol.

 

[Selah7]

and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. luke 16:23. Jesus teaches it is a place of eternal torment.
If it were as you say, Poof, gone, how could the rich man ask Abraham to send a message to his family to warn them of this place? He wouldn't have been around to ask Abraham such a thing.

Just one example

That’s not talking about the GWTJ, though. Remember the gulf?
But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

- Luke 16:25-26 (KJV)

 

[Selah7]

Not to mention no appearing for the Final Judgment.

The second death is after the GWTJ.

 

[Eleanor]

The second death is after the GWTJ.

I think the poster is referring to natural death.

 

[Selah7]

I think the poster is referring to natural death.

uh, I don’t think so because he’s using the word “eternal. “

 

[Eleanor]

uh, I don’t think so because he’s using the word “eternal. “

Are we talking about post #20?

 

[Selah7]

Are we talking about post #20?

not sure what you’re saying

 

[yitoz]

It was a rubbish dump, outside the city wall of Jerusalem. It was on fire and the fire never went out, because it was constantly supplied with more rubbish. This is like the tormented wicked, who are continually punished with fire, in hell. Their sinful nature never stops producing sin, so the fire has perpetual fuel.

And they don't make any sun screen that can help with that.

 

[David1701]

Yes. I believe when it talks about men dying in Scripture, that they are no more, it is related to the fact that they will never be seen again on earth. There is a passage that deals with that term elsewhere, but I cannot recall where. It's somewhere in the Psalms, or Job, or Proverbs iirc.

If you know the passage I am thinking of, let me know, lol.

Ps. 39:13 (KJV) O spare me, that I may recover strength, before I go hence, and be no more.

Ps. 103:15,16
15 As for man, his days are as grass: as a flower of the field, so he flourisheth.
16 For the wind passeth over it, and it is gone; and the place thereof shall know it no more.

Ps. 104:35 Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more. Bless thou the LORD, O my soul. Praise ye the LORD.

Pro. 10:25 As the whirlwind passeth, so is the wicked no more: but the righteous is an everlasting foundation.

Ecc. 9:5,6
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

I think that Ecc. 9:6b sums up the meaning well; it's to do with this life, not annihilation.

 

[David1701]

And they don't make any sun screen that can help with that.

Hmm...

Perhaps there's an opportunity for a new "vaccine"?

 

[Eleanor]

not sure what you’re saying

If we are talking about post #20, does he use the word eternal as you said in post #29?

 

[Deleted member 5]

Ps. 39:13 (KJV) O spare me, that I may recover strength, before I go hence, and be no more.

Ps. 103:15,16
15 As for man, his days are as grass: as a flower of the field, so he flourisheth.
16 For the wind passeth over it, and it is gone; and the place thereof shall know it no more.

Ps. 104:35 Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more. Bless thou the LORD, O my soul. Praise ye the LORD.

Pro. 10:25 As the whirlwind passeth, so is the wicked no more: but the righteous is an everlasting foundation.

Ecc. 9:5,6
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

I think that Ecc. 9:6b sums up the meaning well; it's to do with this life, not annihilation.

Good! Those texts led me to find these. I think they are the ones that I was thinking of:

Psalm 37:10 "In just a little while, the wicked will be no more; though you look carefully at his place, he will not be there."

Verses 35-36; "I have seen a wicked, ruthless man, spreading himself like a green laurel tree. But he passed away, and behold, he was no more; though I sought him, he could not be found."

 

[yitoz]

Hmm...

Perhaps there's an opportunity for a new "vaccine"?

I would think that many of the WEFers may be there, so they can take their own vax.

 

[Keiw1]

I believe in eternal conscience torment because Scripture teaches this. I'm not an annihilationist.

The true God= LOVE, merciful, justice
God taught all his perfect justice= an eye for an eye=perfect balance on Gods justice scales= real justice.
So for 70-100 years of an unrepented life, God could not nor would not punish one for trillions x trillions x trillions, etc infinite years of eternal suffering. There is no balance in that justice. Deut 32:4= ALL of Gods ways are justice. That teaching of a literal place of eternal suffering by blind guides that do not know God= An eye for a gazillion eyes.
The true God( YHWH(Jehovah)set before all mankind-LIFE or DEATH-Deut 30:19)

The symbolism taught on eternal suffering = As each new day dawns in Gods kingdom, those not allowed in, miss each new day, miss each new day of Gods love, it NEVER ends-likened to be an eternal suffering--Why? Because those not allowed in traded 70-100 years of a sinful existence and missed out on eternal life in Gods kingdom.

Proof--The place where the worm dieth not-- There isn't a worm in existence that can survive more than a single hour in a hot firey place let alone dieth not--6 feet under ( eternal death) is where the worm dieth not.
And Jesus clearly teaches those walking the broad and spacious path to destruction---not eternal life to suffer.

 

[Red Baker]

It is not easy jumping into a thread which has already been going on for three months or so~but, here's my understanding of the subject under consideration.

It really matters not what we think, or want to believe, but what saith the word of God. I will try to make this first post short, as possible, which is not always easy to do in order to clearly get a point across, but here we go.

I ask this question: "Did Jesus paid IN FULL the sin question for his elect? Yes, he did indeed. Will he suffer in hell fire forever? Of course not. The payment he render was he offered his perfect life of faith and obedience for our sins. He was put to death, PERIOD! He would have stay in that state if it was not for the perfect life of holiness which he rendered unto the law of God for the sins of his people. He saved us from the lake of fire, which IS second death. In other word~he saved us from perishing FOREVER, by granting to us eternal life as our surety before the law of God.

To teach that when men die they go into a burning hell fire is to teach a form of purgatory~ Basically where the doctrine of hell fire originated from. When the sinner dies he go into a sleep, and will sleep until the last day at the resurrection when ALL shall come forth to be judged. Just consider how irrational is the doctrine where folks are presently cast into a hell fire, and then taken out only to be cast back into the lake of fire???? such a doctrine has no biblical support. Folk are following men instead of the scriptures. Sinners when they die lost do not have eternal life, they are in jail so to speak waiting to go before the judge to receive their punishment which will be the lake of fire, WHICH IS the SECOND DEATH, a perishing state. The righteous have eternal life and at death immediately go into the presence of Christ to be with him.

Next post we will look at the scriptures to prove our points. In the mean Consider:

John 3:16~"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him SHOULD NOT PERISH, but have everlasting life." I think most folks understand the meaning of perishing~at least they should.

 

[Eleanor]

It is not easy jumping into a thread which has already been going on for three months or so~but, here's my understanding of the subject under consideration.
It really matters not what we think, or want to believe, but what saith the word of God. I will try to make this first post short, as possible, which is not always easy to do in order to clearly get a point across, but here we go.
I ask this question: "Did Jesus paid IN FULL the sin question for his elect?

The issue is not the elect, the issue is the damned.

See Mk 9:43-48.

Yes, he did indeed. Will he suffer in hell fire forever? Of course not. The payment he render was he offered his perfect life of faith and obedience for our sins. He was put to death, PERIOD! He would have stay in that state if it was not for the perfect life of holiness which he rendered unto the law of God for the sins of his people. He saved us from the lake of fire, which IS second death. In other word~he saved us from perishing FOREVER, by granting to us eternal life as our surety before the law of God.

To teach that when men die they go into a burning hell fire is to teach a form of purgatory~ Basically where the doctrine of hell fire originated from.