Doctrine vs. Theology: What is the Difference?

[Arial]

Doctrine is often confused for theology and vice versa. What is the difference and why is it important?

Doctrine comes out of theology but isn't our theology. Theology as most know is the study of God. That exists in many religions and in a sense in all religions. It exists in those religions that call themselves Christian but are not because they hold some Christian beliefs but not critical core beliefs of Christianity such as the Trinity. Sadly many others have been wiped out of so called Christian churches today including the virgin birth, the inerrancy of scripture, the sovereignty of God, original sin, the omniscience of God. The focus here will be on Christian theology and how it shapes the doctrines held in historic Christianity.

Theology has come to mean whatever a person thinks about what the Bible says about God and by extension Jesus. In a sense this is true but is greatly watered down (as are many terms) from what theology was historically that arrived at the doctrines of the traditional protestant Christian church. And even in the apostolic era the teachings (doctrines) that laid the foundation of Christ's church were based on and verified by the self revelation of God in the OT---the scriptures they had. All of Christ's teachings were consistent with the self revelation of God in the OT, and His fulfillment of them.

So the study of God is studying His word in the OT (for this is where He first reveals Himself, who He is, and what He is doing) as our foundation to learn what He says about Himself first, and second us in relation to Him and His purposes. What God reveals about Himself is not open to interpretation in the sense that no interpretation that is in opposition to what He means by what He says is correct. Our misinterpretations change Him not. This then will lead to our foundational theology of God into a solid theology of Jesus and salvation as it is revealed in the NT.

It is out of this theology that the traditional protestant Christian doctrines were formed and stated within the creeds and catechisms of the Reformation and from which the theology was taught. It consistently also aligns with the apostles teaching. The sure thing is that if we get one point of theology that differs from what God says about Himself, it will ultimately also distort something else in the Bible somewhere along the line and mess with our teaching and our learning. Places where we have a tangle, seeming contradictions and questions that we cannot answer that are actually answered in the scriptures, and divisions among believers and denominations.

We can know and believe who Jesus is and be joined to Him through faith without all this theology and in fact many are in this modern era by the mercy of God. For not one of His people will be lost. Up until recently relatively speaking the doctrine was taught, as I said earlier, from and through the creeds etc. and it was common and began at a person's beginning, God was central for the majority of people, at least compared to now, and of supreme importance as to how they conducted their lives. Even little children heard from the pulpit and at home, who God is as self revealed and the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior. They were taught theology and its doctrines and they either believed it at some point or they did not.

We learn theology as we grow in grace but we should always check our doctrine by studying God as He reveals Himself to be, including our Christology,

 

[ReverendRV]

Doctrine is often confused for theology and vice versa. What is the difference and why is it important?

Doctrine comes out of theology but isn't our theology. Theology as most know is the study of God. That exists in many religions and in a sense in all religions. It exists in those religions that call themselves Christian but are not because they hold some Christian beliefs but not critical core beliefs of Christianity such as the Trinity. Sadly many others have been wiped out of so called Christian churches today including the virgin birth, the inerrancy of scripture, the sovereignty of God, original sin, the omniscience of God. The focus here will be on Christian theology and how it shapes the doctrines held in historic Christianity.

Theology has come to mean whatever a person thinks about what the Bible says about God and by extension Jesus. In a sense this is true but is greatly watered down (as are many terms) from what theology was historically that arrived at the doctrines of the traditional protestant Christian church. And even in the apostolic era the teachings (doctrines) that laid the foundation of Christ's church were based on and verified by the self revelation of God in the OT---the scriptures they had. All of Christ's teachings were consistent with the self revelation of God in the OT, and His fulfillment of them.

So the study of God is studying His word in the OT (for this is where He first reveals Himself, who He is, and what He is doing) as our foundation to learn what He says about Himself first, and second us in relation to Him and His purposes. What God reveals about Himself is not open to interpretation in the sense that no interpretation that is in opposition to what He means by what He says is correct. Our misinterpretations change Him not. This then will lead to our foundational theology of God into a solid theology of Jesus and salvation as it is revealed in the NT.

It is out of this theology that the traditional protestant Christian doctrines were formed and stated within the creeds and catechisms of the Reformation and from which the theology was taught. It consistently also aligns with the apostles teaching. The sure thing is that if we get one point of theology that differs from what God says about Himself, it will ultimately also distort something else in the Bible somewhere along the line and mess with our teaching and our learning. Places where we have a tangle, seeming contradictions and questions that we cannot answer that are actually answered in the scriptures, and divisions among believers and denominations.

We can know and believe who Jesus is and be joined to Him through faith without all this theology and in fact many are in this modern era by the mercy of God. For not one of His people will be lost. Up until recently relatively speaking the doctrine was taught, as I said earlier, from and through the creeds etc. and it was common and began at a person's beginning, God was central for the majority of people, at least compared to now, and of supreme importance as to how they conducted their lives. Even little children heard from the pulpit and at home, who God is as self revealed and the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior. They were taught theology and its doctrines and they either believed it at some point or they did not.

We learn theology as we grow in grace but we should always check our doctrine by studying God as He reveals Himself to be, including our Christology,

I will probably enjoy this Thread a lot...

As many have noticed, and have known for years; I am a BIG proponent for Systematic Theology...

We need a "New Protestant Reformation". Do we need a New Bible? NO! We need to Reform our Systematic Theology and our Doctrine. I would love it one day to have a movement in the Church; called the New Protestant Reformation. I have been calling myself a New Protestant, ever since I joined CARM...

 

[ReverendRV]

I will probably enjoy this Thread a lot...

As many have noticed, and have known for years; I am a BIG proponent for Systematic Theology...

We need a "New Protestant Reformation". Do we need a New Bible? NO! We need to Reform our Systematic Theology and our Doctrine. I would love it one day to have a movement in the Church; called the New Protestant Reformation. I have been calling myself a New Protestant, ever since I joined CARM...

I suppose my first point in your Thread is that All of our differences are due to people's Private Interpretations of the Bible; that our differences should never be blamed on the Bible...

Do we need to Reform the Bible? NO!

We should start by admitting that everyone has a systematic theology; if it's not "THE" Systematic Theology of the Church. Everyone is a theologian...

 

[Arial]

I will probably enjoy this Thread a lot...

As many have noticed, and have known for years; I am a BIG proponent for Systematic Theology...

We need a "New Protestant Reformation". Do we need a New Bible? NO! We need to Reform our Systematic Theology and our Doctrine. I would love it one day to have a movement in the Church; called the New Protestant Reformation. I have been calling myself a New Protestant, ever since I joined CARM...

I kind of agree with you. In a way it is at least growing, this return to systematic theology, preaching accordingly and expounding on the actual Word. I think it had already begun when I turned to the study of Reformed theology in 2005, as it was said to have done so. And then anti-Calvinism began to show up in pulpits, which leads credence to that assertion.

In all my 22 years of church going previous to 2005, not once was Calvinism or TULIP so much as mentioned. It was still "dead" as was declared about the time of Charles Finney.

Turns out it was only sleeping.

But it would take a magnificent and glorious act of God to rebuild all of our walls that have been burned down and restore our gates that have been burned with fire. He did it for Jerusalem. He can do it for His church. I pray, but I do not know His plans.

The only place I have ever found this systematic expounding on the word from the pulpit is from Calvinist/Reformed preachers. They have restored what was found in the Reformation that was lost in the dark ages and the Roman church. There is a good article by Steven J. Lawson "The Preaching of the Reformation." I don't know if it available online. I have it in my Reformation Study Bible NKJV Bible.

 

[ReverendRV]

I kind of agree with you. In a way it is at least growing, this return to systematic theology, preaching accordingly and expounding on the actual Word. I think it had already begun when I turned to the study of Reformed theology in 2005, as it was said to have done so. And then anti-Calvinism began to show up in pulpits, which leads credence to that assertion.

In all my 22 years of church going previous to 2005, not once was Calvinism or TULIP so much as mentioned. It was still "dead" as was declared about the time of Charles Finney.

Turns out it was only sleeping.

But it would take a magnificent and glorious act of God to rebuild all of our walls that have been burned down and restore our gates that have been burned with fire. He did it for Jerusalem. He can do it for His church. I pray, but I do not know His plans.

The only place I have ever found this systematic expounding on the word from the pulpit is from Calvinist/Reformed preachers. They have restored what was found in the Reformation that was lost in the dark ages and the Roman church. There is a good article by Steven J. Lawson "The Preaching of the Reformation." I don't know if it available online. I have it in my Reformation Study Bible NKJV Bible.

Obviously not discounting things like Praying, what do you think we need to do, to help Reform the Evangelical Church?

 

[Arial]

Obviously not discounting things like Praying, what do you think we need to do, to help Reform the Evangelical Church?

I don't know that there is anything we can do---or certainly not me, as I am a woman, cannot (and don't want to be) a pastor. And I think the problem is what we see in Ez 34. The shepherds aren't trained, doctrine has been thrown out of the pulpit as a bad word for decades and only becomes worse. And if the shepherds aren't trained in systematic theology and therefore sound doctrine, the flock is scattered to the four winds of every doctrine that flies by.

As I said this systematic theology and preaching from it is growing and the hungry I think are being drawn to it like a moth to flame. I know I was. It came to my awareness quite by "accident" and not in a church. I had left the church I was attending, non-denominational but moderately charismatic (meaning they believed the same things but were not full of the displays) in search of something---the answer to a cry of my heart. "I want to hear about God. I was not even sure what I meant, but something was missing and that was the only way I could verbalize it.

My search produced no results.

My brother---the one who presented my with Christ and His salvation, though it took seven years of relentless, not welcome, presenting the gospel for me to quite suddenly believe what was foolishness to me---had breakfast every morning with the same group of men at a diner. One of them was a Christian, but unbeknownst to my brother, also a Calvinist. He gave him a little book one day, "Truths That Transform" by Dr James Kennedy.

He read it then brought it to me with a smile on his face. "This book will change your life." he said.

Oh I was full of and fed up with all those Christian books that would change my life and were nothing more than self help and formulas to get what you want. So I replied "There is no such book" He just kept smiling.

Later I began to read it and after only the first paragraph I was saying "This is about God!" And then and there I knew what I had meant by that cry. This began my study and pursuit of Reformed theology.

I did not put that hunger in myself and it was providence that answered the desire of a person who was hungry and thirsty, poor and needy.

So I think that is where prayer comes in, my case anyway. As Nehemiah prayed and lamented over Jerusalem. Have you ever noticed that in many if not most of the prayers recorded in the OT, those praying are praying God's words right back to Him, concerning the promises, the covenant, the mercy?

What are your thoughts on the how to?

 

[ReverendRV]

I don't know that there is anything we can do---or certainly not me, as I am a woman, cannot (and don't want to be) a pastor. And I think the problem is what we see in Ez 34. The shepherds aren't trained, doctrine has been thrown out of the pulpit as a bad word for decades and only becomes worse. And if the shepherds aren't trained in systematic theology and therefore sound doctrine, the flock is scattered to the four winds of every doctrine that flies by.

As I said this systematic theology and preaching from it is growing and the hungry I think are being drawn to it like a moth to flame. I know I was. It came to my awareness quite by "accident" and not in a church. I had left the church I was attending, non-denominational but moderately charismatic (meaning they believed the same things but were not full of the displays) in search of something---the answer to a cry of my heart. "I want to hear about God. I was not even sure what I meant, but something was missing and that was the only way I could verbalize it.

My search produced no results.

My brother---the one who presented my with Christ and His salvation, though it took seven years of relentless, not welcome, presenting the gospel for me to quite suddenly believe what was foolishness to me---had breakfast every morning with the same group of men at a diner. One of them was a Christian, but unbeknownst to my brother, also a Calvinist. He gave him a little book one day, "Truths That Transform" by Dr James Kennedy.

He read it then brought it to me with a smile on his face. "This book will change your life." he said.

Oh I was full of and fed up with all those Christian books that would change my life and were nothing more than self help and formulas to get what you want. So I replied "There is no such book" He just kept smiling.

Later I began to read it and after only the first paragraph I was saying "This is about God!" And then and there I knew what I had meant by that cry. This began my study and pursuit of Reformed theology.

I did not put that hunger in myself and it was providence that answered the desire of a person who was hungry and thirsty, poor and needy.

So I think that is where prayer comes in, my case anyway. As Nehemiah prayed and lamented over Jerusalem. Have you ever noticed that in many if not most of the prayers recorded in the OT, those praying are praying God's words right back to Him, concerning the promises, the covenant, the mercy?

What are your thoughts on the how to?

That was great...

My first thoughts are to deal with "Itching Ears"...

Is the itching ears problem the Bible presents a God Problem or a Church Problem?

Yes

First, it is a God Problem, because 'Uncircumcised Ears' are a God Problem. Secondly, it's a Church Problem because they have forgotten their First Love; and only think about their Second Love, people with 'Itching Ears'...

Come, eat and drink for Free. We hunger and thirst for Righteousness; and we get our Righteousness in Christ. But you hungered for more; and you found that in Theology...

Many do not know they are on a Fast Food Diet at most Churches. They glut on Sugary Sweet "Health and Wealth" snacks. They still hunger and thirst for Righteousness though; but in a different way now. "Pastor; please tell us about Theology and Doctrine!. It's nutritious! There is Milk, but then there is MEAT! My glands salivate, my stomach growls."...


Perhaps the Church needs to stoke a sweet smelling aroma. Christians WILL get hungry if they smell it...

 

[Arial]

That was great...

My first thoughts are to deal with "Itching Ears"...

Is the itching ears problem the Bible presents a God Problem or a Church Problem?

Yes

First, it is a God Problem, because 'Uncircumcised Ears' are a God Problem. Secondly, it's a Church Problem because they have forgotten their First Love; and only think about their Second Love, people with 'Itching Ears'...

Come, eat and drink for Free. We hunger and thirst for Righteousness; and we get our Righteousness in Christ. But you hungered for more; and you found that in Theology...

Many do not know they are on a Fast Food Diet at most Churches. They glut on Sugary Sweet "Health and Wealth" snacks. They still hunger and thirst for Righteousness though; but in a different way now. "Pastor; please tell us about Theology and Doctrine!. It's nutritious! There is Milk, but then there is MEAT! My glands salivate, my stomach growls."...


Perhaps the Church needs to stoke a sweet smelling aroma. Christians WILL get hungry if they smell it...

It is unfortunate that the majority of people alive today have never been exposed to the meat. Not the shepherds and not the sheep. It was long gone from the church for the most part, in one way or another, long before any were even born. The creeds were removed as not necessary, altar calls with no examination of who Christ is and what and why He did what He did were introduced in the place of knowledge and theology. These altar calls fueled by nothing but emotions stirred or promises of a life you can control through formulas and mantras, carefully selected musical background and incense.

Now the gospel has been replaced with only moral teaching, is being invaded by wokeness and CRT. People often don't seek God because they think they have already found Him when they got saved, thinking the extent of knowing Him is knowing some things about Him. Personally I think it may be the persecution of the church on a scale previously unknown, and in such a way as to not even be recognized as persecution. From within by the indoctrination of the world. The serpent's perhaps last ditch effort to bring it down and defeat the Most High God.

But he can't. The gates of hell will not prevail against His church. Not one will be lost even in the midst of deception. The Lord knows those who are His. And HIs children will know when they are hungry and He will feed them.

How do we stoke a sweet smelling aroma?

 

[ReverendRV]

It is unfortunate that the majority of people alive today have never been exposed to the meat. Not the shepherds and not the sheep. It was long gone from the church for the most part, in one way or another, long before any were even born. The creeds were removed as not necessary, altar calls with no examination of who Christ is and what and why He did what He did were introduced in the place of knowledge and theology. These altar calls fueled by nothing but emotions stirred or promises of a life you can control through formulas and mantras, carefully selected musical background and incense.

Now the gospel has been replaced with only moral teaching, is being invaded by wokeness and CRT. People often don't seek God because they think they have already found Him when they got saved, thinking the extent of knowing Him is knowing some things about Him. Personally I think it may be the persecution of the church on a scale previously unknown, and in such a way as to not even be recognized as persecution. From within by the indoctrination of the world. The serpent's perhaps last ditch effort to bring it down and defeat the Most High God.

But he can't. The gates of hell will not prevail against His church. Not one will be lost even in the midst of deception. The Lord knows those who are His. And HIs children will know when they are hungry and He will feed them.

How do we stoke a sweet smelling aroma?

I like what you said...


How do we Stoke a Sweet Smelling Aroma?

Sunday School...

The Covid put a hurting on Sunday School and Wednesday Night Services. I know this isn't true for every Congregation, but it's symptomatic. Sunday School and Wednesday Nights have historically had larger portions of Meat...

I think a Church can change one of their Sunday School Classes, to "Seminary School". This will be a start. It could get Systematic Theology and Sound Doctrine promoted. Have the Students laud the Class in front of the rest of the Congregation; a Sweet Smelling Aroma will waft. Have Seninary School 101, and Seminary School 201...


What do you think about trying to start a Seminary School Class at your Church? I don't mean starting a Seminary Course; just a Class on Theology. I'm not suggesting to grow Church into Seminary, but I suggest appealing to people who are hungry for Theology; then spreading the hunger to others in Church by dispersing the aroma...

 

[Eleanor]

Doctrine is often confused for theology and vice versa. What is the difference and why is it important?

Doctrine comes out of theology but isn't our theology.

Why can doctrine not come directly out of Scripture?
Salvation by faith alone.
Justification by faith alone.
Atoning death of Jesus Christ.
Obedience in sanctification.
Resurrection.
Rapture of the church.
Christ's return.
Final judgment.

Theology as most know is the study of God. That exists in many religions and in a sense in all religions. It exists in those religions that call themselves Christian but are not because they hold some Christian beliefs but not critical core beliefs of Christianity such as the Trinity. Sadly many others have been wiped out of so called Christian churches today including the virgin birth, the inerrancy of scripture, the sovereignty of God, original sin, the omniscience of God. The focus here will be on Christian theology and how it shapes the doctrines held in historic Christianity.

Theology has come to mean whatever a person thinks about what the Bible says about God and by extension Jesus. In a sense this is true but is greatly watered down (as are many terms) from what theology was historically that arrived at the doctrines of the traditional protestant Christian church. And even in the apostolic era the teachings (doctrines) that laid the foundation of Christ's church were based on and verified by the self revelation of God in the OT---the scriptures they had. All of Christ's teachings were consistent with the self revelation of God in the OT, and His fulfillment of them.

So the study of God is studying His word in the OT (for this is where He first reveals Himself, who He is, and what He is doing) as our foundation to learn what He says about Himself first, and second us in relation to Him and His purposes.

Does he not also reveal more of his nature in the NT, in election, actual adoption, rights of sonship, etc.?

What God reveals about Himself is not open to interpretation in the sense that no interpretation that is in opposition to what He means by what He says is correct. Our misinterpretations change Him not. This then will lead to our foundational theology of God into a solid theology of Jesus and salvation as it is revealed in the NT.

It is out of this theology that the traditional protestant Christian doctrines were formed and stated within the creeds and catechisms of the Reformation and from which the theology was taught. It consistently also aligns with the apostles teaching. The sure thing is that if we get one point of theology that differs from what God says about Himself, it will ultimately also distort something else in the Bible somewhere along the line and mess with our teaching and our learning. Places where we have a tangle, seeming contradictions and questions that we cannot answer that are actually answered in the scriptures, and divisions among believers and denominations.

We can know and believe who Jesus is and be joined to Him through faith without all this theology and in fact many are in this modern era by the mercy of God. For not one of His people will be lost. Up until recently relatively speaking the doctrine was taught, as I said earlier, from and through the creeds etc. and it was common and began at a person's beginning, God was central for the majority of people, at least compared to now, and of supreme importance as to how they conducted their lives. Even little children heard from the pulpit and at home, who God is as self revealed and the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior. They were taught theology and its doctrines and they either believed it at some point or they did not.

We learn theology as we grow in grace but we should always check our doctrine by studying God as He reveals Himself to be, including our Christology,

 

[Eleanor]

I will probably enjoy this Thread a lot...

As many have noticed, and have known for years; I am a BIG proponent for Systematic Theology...

We need a "New Protestant Reformation". Do we need a New Bible? NO! We need to Reform our Systematic Theology and our Doctrine. I would love it one day to have a movement in the Church; called the New Protestant Reformation. I have been calling myself a New Protestant, ever since I joined CARM...

I find expository preaching to be very powerful.

 

[Arial]

I like what you said...


How do we Stoke a Sweet Smelling Aroma?

Sunday School...

The Covid put a hurting on Sunday School and Wednesday Night Services. I know this isn't true for every Congregation, but it's symptomatic. Sunday School and Wednesday Nights have historically had larger portions of Meat...

I think a Church can change one of their Sunday School Classes, to "Seminary School". This will be a start. It could get Systematic Theology and Sound Doctrine promoted. Have the Students laud the Class in front of the rest of the Congregation; a Sweet Smelling Aroma will waft. Have Seninary School 101, and Seminary School 201...


What do you think about trying to start a Seminary School Class at your Church? I don't mean starting a Seminary Course; just a Class on Theology. I'm not suggesting to grow Church into Seminary, but I suggest appealing to people who are hungry for Theology; then spreading the hunger to others with the aroma...

The church I associate with does not have seminary school as such but it does preach and teach in adult Sunday school from systematic theology. It is Calvinistic in its eschatology rather than covenant, and is not confessional as the Reformed is, but it has sound has the doctrines that are within TULIP and those that follow from the theology that are in those doctrines. (I eventually found such a church after I learned what it was I was looking for.)

But I like your idea. I do not feel qualified to start one myself but maybe suggest it.

In any case, what I hear you saying is that growth of theology and sound doctrine within the churches we do have, growth in such preaching as in expansion into more and more of it, will send up that aroma? Go about our business with diligence and God will cause the increase.

 

[ReverendRV]

The church I associate with does not have seminary school as such but it does preach and teach in adult Sunday school from systematic theology. It is Calvinistic in its eschatology rather than covenant, and is not confessional as the Reformed is, but it has sound has the doctrines that are within TULIP and those that follow from the theology that are in those doctrines. (I eventually found such a church after I learned what it was I was looking for.)

But I like your idea. I do not feel qualified to start one myself but maybe suggest it.

In any case, what I hear you saying is that growth of theology and sound doctrine within the churches we do have, growth in such preaching as in expansion into more and more of it, will send up that aroma? Go about our business with diligence and God will cause the increase.

Right...

I'm just suggesting to change the name of one Sunday School Class, to "Sunday Seminary". Talk about itching ears; there would be an appeal to Egos, just because of the renaming. After it scratches ears, then noses can catch the Scent...

Bad Theology, or no Theology, is a Problem. What would you suggest be first taught in Sunday Seminary at Church?

 

[Arial]

Why can doctrine not come directly out of Scripture?

It does.
Theology isn't doctrine it is where sound doctrine comes from----

Salvation by faith alone.
Justification by faith alone.
Atoning death of Jesus Christ.
Obedience in sanctification.
Resurrection.
Rapture of the church.
Christ's return.
Final judgment.

and how these doctrines as doctrines were arrive from (with the exception imo of the rapture of the church.) The rapture is a subject for a different thread but I do not believe it is a church doctrine, certainly not historically speaking. It is a theory, an interpretation that cannot be proven from scripture or theology.

As I said in the OP we can be joined to Christ through faith by knowing the doctrines you list without knowing any theology. Theology is learned over time after conversion. They are given in the NT by the apostles as doctrines but they themselves based them all on the theology (the self revelation of God) of the OT.

Does he not also reveal more of his nature in the NT, in election, actual adoption, rights of sonship, etc.?

Yes. They are revealed in Christ. But all those things were prophesied and shadowed in the OT.

 

[ReverendRV]

It does.
Theology isn't doctrine it is where sound doctrine comes from----


and how these doctrines as doctrines were arrive from (with the exception imo of the rapture of the church.) The rapture is a subject for a different thread but I do not believe it is a church doctrine, certainly not historically speaking. It is a theory, an interpretation that cannot be proven from scripture or theology.

As I said in the OP we can be joined to Christ through faith by knowing the doctrines you list without knowing any theology. Theology is learned over time after conversion. They are given in the NT by the apostles as doctrines but they themselves based them all on the theology (the self revelation of God) of the OT.

Yes. They are revealed in Christ. But all those things were prophesied and shadowed in the OT.

Call the 'Sunday Seminary' Class "Sunday Sola Scriptura" Class; and Eleanor will be on board...

Then you can carry on with your Sunday School Theology Class as you see fit...

 

[Arial]

Right...

I'm just suggesting to change the name of one Sunday School Class, to "Sunday Seminary". Talk about itching ears; there would be an appeal to Egos, just because of the renaming. After it scratches ears, then noses can catch the Scent...

Bad Theology, or no Theology, is a Problem. What would you suggest be first taught in Sunday Seminary at Church?

lol
Gosh I don't know as to your question. I have never been to seminary. I suppose one might start with its purpose. For equipping the saints either for leadership or for being able to correctly defend the faith (apologetics) even as a layperson, and strengthen their faith; through gaining an understanding of God and proper hermeneutics.

The Westminster confession or
catechism or some of the others that came out of the Reformation, step by step, showing how they arrived at those doctrines would be good as an example that teaches. I have a feeling the class would self weed. Take it into any form of charismatic and the students would drop our from boredom. No action! No emotion! No manifestations of power! No puppet shows!

Where would you start? Get me better lined up.

 

[Eleanor]

It does.
Theology isn't doctrine it is where sound doctrine comes from----


and how these doctrines as doctrines were arrive from (with the exception imo of the rapture of the church.) The rapture is a subject for a different thread but I do not believe it is a church doctrine, certainly not historically speaking. It is a theory, an interpretation that cannot be proven from scripture or theology.

Why do you say that?

"We who are still alive (believers at the time of the resurrection), who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede (to the clouds) those (believers) who have fallen asleep (death).
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the vice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise. After that, we who are still alive and are left (among the living) will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air," (1 Th 4:16-17), and then descend with him to earth for the judgment.
That is the "rapture," L. raptura, Gr. harpazo.

As I said in the OP we can be joined to Christ through faith by knowing the doctrines you list without knowing any theology. Theology is learned over time after conversion. They are given in the NT by the apostles as doctrines but they themselves based them all on the theology (the self revelation of God) of the OT.

Yes. They are revealed in Christ. But all those things were prophesied and shadowed in the OT.

Where do we see the body of Christ shadowed in the OT?

 

[ReverendRV]

lol
Gosh I don't know as to your question. I have never been to seminary. I suppose one might start with its purpose. For equipping the saints either for leadership or for being able to correctly defend the faith (apologetics) even as a layperson, and strengthen their faith; through gaining an understanding of God and proper hermeneutics.

The Westminster confession or
catechism or some of the others that came out of the Reformation, step by step, showing how they arrived at those doctrines would be good as an example that teaches. I have a feeling the class would self weed. Take it into any form of charismatic and the students would drop our from boredom. No action! No emotion! No manifestations of power! No puppet shows!

Where would you start? Get me better lined up.

I like it!


I would start with an Overview of what Theology is, then what Theology isn't. It's the "Queen of the Sciences"; IE the Science of God, the Study of God. Theology is the Systematic Conclusion of reconciling Scripture with Scripture. Theology is Exegesis, not Eisegesis. Eisegesis is actually hard to do to Scripture. Much of what people call Eisegesis, is actually a Theological Conclusion; not adding meaning to a Verse that's not there. Hermenuetics can be discussed. Our Denomination can be discussed. ~ I would have to do a study to decide what should be in an Introductory Class on Theology...

I would either finish the Class with the first point of Theology, or begin next week's Sunday Seminary; with Sola Scriptura. The Bible is the only Arbiter of Spiritual Truth, the Rule of Christianity, etc. I would probably end the First Class with it, then next week move onto overviews of the "Ologies" of Theology; such as Christology, Soteriology, Pneumatology, Eschatology, etc...

A 101 Sunday Seminary Class would start at the basics; introducing the different studies within Theology. A 201 Sunday Seminary Class would talk about the differences within the Sub points of Theology; like explaining the differences between Arminianism and Calvinism, Paedo Or Creedo Baptism, etc. Obviously, whatTheology is, should be explained first...


What do you want from your Church when it comes to Theology?

 

[Arial]

Why do you say that?

"We who are still alive (believers at the time of the resurrection), who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede (to the clouds) those (believers) who have fallen asleep (death).
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the vice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise. After that, we who are still alive and are left (among the living) will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air," (1 Th 4:16-17), and then descend with him to earth for the judgment.
That is the "rapture," L. raptura, Gr. harpazo.

I say that not because I am denying the words of Paul in 1 Thes but because of the most commonly held view of the rapture---that being that the saints who are alive prior to a seven year period of tribulation will be taken out of the earth so as not to experience it or by some this occurs half way through this seven year period. If the full import of the above scriptures is taken into account and not just portions of it, that has two second comings.

There is another way of legitimately viewing these scriptures that takes into account why Paul was writing these things in this letter and to whom he was writing it and in conjunction with the whole counsel of God. But this is not the thread in which to take a deep dive into that.

Where do we see the body of Christ shadowed in the OT?

Everywhere it speaks of salvation through faith coming to the Gentiles. We even see it in the promise to Abraham that through his Seed all nations will be blessed. Believers are the body of Christ. Not Jew or Gentile but believing Jew and believing Gentile as the people of God in Christ.

 

[Eleanor]

I say that not because I am denying the words of Paul in 1 Thes but because of the most commonly held view of the rapture---t

Then wouldn't it be better to deny their interpretation of the rapture, rather than to deny the rapture itself?

hat being that the saints who are alive prior to a seven year period of tribulation will be taken out of the earth so as not to experience it or by some this occurs half way through this seven year period. If the full import of the above scriptures is taken into account and not just portions of it, that has two second comings.

There is another way of legitimately viewing these scriptures that takes into account why Paul was writing these things in this letter and to whom he was writing it and in conjunction with the whole counsel of God. But this is not the thread in which to take a deep dive into that.

Everywhere it speaks of salvation through faith coming to the Gentiles. We even see it in the promise to Abraham that through his Seed all nations will be blessed. Believers are the body of Christ. Not Jew or Gentile but believing Jew and believing Gentile as the people of God in Christ.