• **Notifications**: Notifications can be dismissed by clicking on the "x" on the righthand side of the notice.
  • **New Style**: You can now change style options. Click on the paintbrush at the bottom of this page.
  • **Donations**: If the Lord leads you please consider helping with monthly costs and up keep on our Forum. Click on the Donate link In the top menu bar. Thanks
  • **New Blog section**: There is now a blog section. Check it out near the Private Debates forum or click on the Blog link in the top menu bar.
  • Welcome Visitors! Join us and be blessed while fellowshipping and celebrating our Glorious Salvation In Christ Jesus.

Dispensation Premillennialism: Fact or Fiction?

Ephesians.
Please cite or quote the verse explicitly stating God has two peoples.
The two cannot be made one if .......
Your opinion was not requested. An explicit statement in scripture is what was requested. This is part of the problem that commonly occurs when discussing Dispensational Premillennialism with Dispensational Premillennialists. Simple question are responded to but not actually answered. Theological bias or personal opinion are offered instead of scripture. Honest answers are rarely provided. Constant attempt to change the subject must be endured by any and all inquirers.
So I guess the best questions to ask are:
1. Are Gentiles part of the ABRAHAMIC covenant? [Remembering that God simply promised outside the covenant, that all the nations of the world would be blessed by Abraham's seed, which does not require those nations to be a part of the covenant.]
2. Why did God break the covenant with Abraham? [To say he didn't means you realize that God has unfinished business solely with the Jews.]
3. If the physical promises made specifically within the covenant are not fulfilled, is God simply going to break the covenant He made with Abraham? Or, are we to believe as Abraham did, that God already knows exactly how He is going to fulfill those promises? That takes as much faith as Abraham had...
4. If the Abrahamic Covenant has not been broken by God, then does that mean there has to be two peoples in the Bible, the Jews under the Abrahamic covenant, and the Gentiles who are not?
I will gladly answer and address every single one of those questions once I have received the verse that explicitly states God has two peoples OR an acknowledgment there is no such verse in the Bible.

For now, I will say there were no Jews and there was no Jewish Israel or geo-political nation-state Israel when God made His covenant with Abraham. Abraham was Hebrew, not Jewish. He was a Babylonian, not a citizen of the nation of Israel. Those are the facts of scripture.
 
Please cite or quote the verse explicitly stating God has two peoples.
I can't. The Bible is clear that God has one people, and that is Israel through Abraham, then Isaac, then Jacob, and so on and so forth. Jews are God's people. Gentiles are strangers and foreigners from the covenants of God. They are not God's people. And God says so Himself. Which means the church is... special. Paul says that salvation is first to the Jew, then to the Gentile. This is not possible if there aren't two peoples. Why would Paul say the Jews are PRIORITY? (Priority can be temporal, though in this case, Paul's actions in Acts seems to state otherwise.) If you look at Acts, every time Paul entered a city, what is the very first thing he did in regards to preaching about God and Christ. He sought out and immediately went to the synagogue and spoke with the Jews. He didn't go to the Gentiles first, he went to the Jews first. Kind of like they were priority. It goes deeper then that. Salvation, judgment, blessings, and curses. First to the Jew, then to the Gentiles. Why? First three chapters of Romans. First the uncultured in chapter 1. Then the cultured. Then the Jews. All mentioned and spoken of by Paul. For those who believe Jews are special and all are saved, Paul gives Romans 3:23 after talking about these three groups. (The first two are types of Gentiles.) "For all have sinned..." No one is righteous, not even the Jews. However the Jews are God's chosen people of the Old Testament. God made covenants and promises for and that affect the Jews.

Quick question. If God breaks HIs covenant with Abraham and by extension, Israel, and breaks His promises with the forefathers, (all specifically dealing only with the Jews), then how can a Gentile trust God when He says... trust Me? How, if He breaks covenants and promises like they are nothing? In what is to be the trust of the Gentile if God is unfaithful? What of Abraham's faith? In what was Abraham's trust? In God's fulfilled promise. He questioned God's promise about Isaac, wondering how he, as old as he was, was supposed to have a son with Sarah. Sarah laughed. She was too old. Yet God said, next season He comes around, Sarah will be with child. And it was exactly as God said. Despite the impossibility, God fulfilled His promise, and Abraham no longer doubted God on anything. He even believed that God would raise Isaac from the dead, because God told Abraham to sacrifice Isaac (kill him), but the covenant and promises all hinged on Isaac. Having seen God already keep what was thought a difficult/impossible promise to keep, Abraham harbored no doubt at all. God would do the impossible, and Isaac would be the one through whom God's promises would be fulfilled, even if Isaac was dead.

I put my faith and trust in THAT God. He will fulfill His covenants and promises with Israel, NOT THE CHURCH. Why? He didn't make those covenants/promises with the church.
Your opinion was not requested. An explicit statement in scripture is what was requested. This is part of the problem that commonly occurs when discussing Dispensational Premillennialism with Dispensational Premillennialists. Simple question are responded to but not actually answered. Theological bias or personal opinion are offered instead of scripture. Honest answers are rarely provided. Constant attempt to change the subject must be endured by any and all inquirers.

I will gladly answer and address every single one of those questions once I have received the verse that explicitly states God has two peoples OR an acknowledgment there is no such verse in the Bible.
There are two peoples. Why else would Paul not only say there is neither Jew nor Gentile, but continued in saying there is neither man nor woman, neither slave nor free? Did he mean there is only one gender? Did he mean we are all slaves, or we are all free? There are two people, Jews and Gentile. God deals with them differently, hence again, Paul says salvation is first to the Jew, then the Gentile. Hence Paul lived what he taught, and went to the Jews first whenever he entered a city. One of the issues with saying the church is Israel is that in order to do that, one must deny progressive revelation. Salvation was always by grace through faith, however, speaking through progressive revelation, the content of the faith differed, as seen with Abraham. His faith was in the faithfulness of God to fulfill His covenants and promises. Unwavering, never doubting in God's faithfulness. And God credited THAT faith, as righteousness. This is why Abraham was not in sheol proper, but in paradise, as can be seen in the story (not parable) of Lazarus and the rich man. Paradise was also known as Abraham's bosom.
For now, I will say there were no Jews and there was no Jewish Israel or geo-political nation-state Israel when God made His covenant with Abraham. Abraham was Hebrew, not Jewish. He was a Babylonian, not a citizen of the nation of Israel. Those are the facts of scripture.
Abraham was Hebrew. Abraham was not a Babylonian as the Chaldeans didn't exist at the time either. I have heard that he was Aramean, or Assyrian, definitely not Chaldean. However God made a covenant and promises with Abraham, as well as promises to other forefathers, and God does not break covenants and promises. Again, that is where the hope of the Gentile lies. The God who will not break His covenants and promises with Israel, is the One who will also save the Gentilles, and you can take that to the bank. In God we trust... all others, cash only.
 
Quick question. If God breaks HIs covenant with Abraham and by extension, Israel, and breaks His promises with the forefathers, (all specifically dealing only with the Jews), then how can a Gentile trust God when He says... trust Me? How, if He breaks covenants and promises like they are nothing? In what is to be the trust of the Gentile if God is unfaithful? What of Abraham's faith? In what was Abraham's trust? In God's fulfilled promise. He questioned God's promise about Isaac, wondering how he, as old as he was, was supposed to have a son with Sarah. Sarah laughed. She was too old. Yet God said, next season He comes around, Sarah will be with child. And it was exactly as God said. Despite the impossibility, God fulfilled His promise, and Abraham no longer doubted God on anything. He even believed that God would raise Isaac from the dead, because God told Abraham to sacrifice Isaac (kill him), but the covenant and promises all hinged on Isaac. Having seen God already keep what was thought a difficult/impossible promise to keep, Abraham harbored no doubt at all. God would do the impossible, and Isaac would be the one through whom God's promises would be fulfilled, even if Isaac was dead.

I put my faith and trust in THAT God. He will fulfill His covenants and promises with Israel, NOT THE CHURCH. Why? He didn't make those covenants/promises with the church.
Quick question: What does God [possibly] breaking his covenant have to do with anything, here? It is a bogus question. He will not. What is the point in asking? You are biasing any outside reader against your opposition, as if he had suggested such a thing. That is disingenuous.
 
Back
Top