Did God appoint an infallible judge?

[Arch Stanton]

Not to mention the papacy murdering between 50-68 million in Europe alone. Another huge population was wiped out by the Spansih branch in S. America. Many more millions.
I simply do not understand how that can be over-looked---and yet it is.

I feel like I am getting cnn news here.... the papacy murdering 70 million huh?

 

[Carbon]

Lk 10:16 Whoever listens to you listens to ME. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me.

Your point?
Are you suggesting that Jesus is giving one apostle rank above everyone else? Really?

If you would like to go over a couple scriptures here and there, start a thread.

Anyone can throw in a verse here and there to try to make it mean what they like.

 

[Arch Stanton]

Your point?

The Church is the pillar of truth
The Church is where the wisdom of God resides
Listening to the Church is listening to Christ

 

[Carbon]

I feel like I am getting cnn news here.... the papacy murdering 70 million huh?

Why would you compare what Alive says to cnn? good grief, we cant trust cnn.

 

[Arch Stanton]

Why would you compare what Alive says to cnn? good grief, we cant trust cnn.

just throwing out false information gets old though....

 

[Carbon]

The Church is the pillar of truth
The Church is where the wisdom of God resides
Listening to the Church is listening to Christ

Your church became apostate. therefore that no longer applies to the RCC. Sorry. Maybe you can be another Luther?

 

[Arch Stanton]

Your church became apostate. therefore that no longer applies to the RCC.

Then Christ misspoke?

Maybe you can be another Luther?

and start my own ecclesial community without the authority to do so.... ohhhhhhh -- Knox, Zwingli, Wesley, Smyth, Luther, Calvin, ARCH??? I am not one for buffet though.

 

[Alive]

I feel like I am getting cnn news here.... the papacy murdering 70 million huh?

Yah---its been researched by many over the years with some difficulty, but even if the numbers are more like 100,000, can that be justified?
No, of course not. There is nothing in the Gospels or epistles that teaches any justification for the murder and torture of those who disagree doctrinally.
To even entertain such a thing is so far out that it cannot be measured for error. And this is not even mentioning the disrupted lives and families during the various inquisitions and Jesuit purgings under the popes.
Its just nutz.

 

[Arch Stanton]

Yah---its been researched by many over the years

and? where are your sources? should we just continue the great lies throughout the centuries?

 

[Alive]

and? where are your sources? should we just continue the great lies throughout the centuries?

I already have posted a site that lists a great many sources for numbers that does help some, but its a lot of reading.
Here it is again.

Estimates of the Number Killed by the Papacy in the Middle Ages

www.webwitness.org.au

 

[Alive]

and? where are your sources? should we just continue the great lies throughout the centuries?

The issue I see here repeatedly, is a reluctance to face this issue directly rather than obfuscate.

 

[Arch Stanton]

I already have posted a site that lists a great many sources for numbers that does help some, but its a lot of reading.
Here it is again.

Estimates of the Number Killed by the Papacy in the Middle Ages

www.webwitness.org.au

The myths of the Inquisition --

• The “Black Legend” began as an anti-Spanish propaganda campaign that succeeded largely because of the invention of the printing press. The Inquisition was the prime target.
• Inquisitors were not fanatical priests as they are often portrayed. In fact, many of them were not priests at all but legal experts trained in Spanish schools.
• Contrary to popular belief, torture was rarely used. It was used less by the Inquisition than it was in the tribunals of other countries throughout Europe at the time.
• Stories about cruel torture methods used by the Inquisitors and the terrible conditions in which prisoners were kept were completely falsified. The Inquisition actually had the best jails in Spain.
• Prisoners of secular courts would actually blaspheme so that they could be transferred to Inquisition prisons and escape the maltreatment of the secular prisons.
• Persecuting witchcraft was a craze in Europe at the time, and secular courts were not tolerant of these kinds of offenses. The accused were often burned at the stake. The Inquisition, on the other hand, declared witchcraft a delusion. No one could be tried for it or burned at the stake.
• The Inquisition was virtually powerless in rural areas.
• In the entire sixteenth century, the Inquisition in Spain executed only about 50 people, which is contrary to the “Black Legend,” which numbers the executions in the hundreds of thousands.
• Of all the Inquisitions together throughout Europe, scholars estimate that the number of people executed ranged somewhere between 3,000 and 5,000. That averages, at most, about fourteen people per year throughout the entire continent over a period of 350 years.

 

[Carbon]

Then Christ misspoke?

Who are you to use Christ for your benefit? That practice hasn't changed much in centuries I see

and start my own ecclesial community without the authority to do so.... ohhhhhhh -- Knox, Zwingli, Wesley, Smyth, Luther, Calvin, ARCH??? I am not one for buffet though.

Hey, the Catholic Church was the only Christian church at one time, but as it slid away, and finally became apostate. The elect left. Yes, these as well: Knox, Zwingli, Wesley, Smyth, Luther, Calvin, ARCH.

They did not start their own churches but remained faithful to God and His word. Did they name it Lutheranism? Reformed, etc...etc...? Yes, ofcourse. Would it make sense to leave the apostate Church of Rome and still call yourself the Roman Catholic Church? Of course not. Don't be silly.

 

[Alive]

Just one small campaign in France.
Massacre at Béziers, (21–22 July 1209). This brutal massacre was the first major battle in the Albigensian Crusade called by Pope Innocent IIIagainst the Cathars, a religious sect. The French city of Béziers, a Cathar stronghold, was burned down and 20,000 residents killed after a papal legate, the Abbot of Cîteaux, declared, "Slaughter them all!"

 

[Arch Stanton]

Who are you to use Christ for your benefit?

A member of His body.

Hey, the Catholic Church was the only Christian church at one time, but as it slid away, and finally became apostate.

What year, Carbon? Was it Christ's Church until the sixteenth century?

They did not start their own churches but remained faithful to God and His word.

Zwingli and Luther did not agree on a few things.

Would it make sense to leave the apostate Church of Rome and still call yourself the Roman Catholic Church? Of course not. Don't be silly.

If the Church Christ established 2,000 years ago fell into apostacy, what of the promises in scriptures?

Mt 16:18 I will build MY CHURCH, and the gates of the NETHERWORLD SHALL NOT PREVAIL against it.

Jn 14:16-17 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate to be with you ALWAYS, the SPIRIT OF TRUTH, which the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows it. But you know it, because it remains with you, and will be in you.

Jn 16:13 But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will GUIDE YOU to ALL TRUTH. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming.

Mt 28:19-20 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, TEACHING THEM to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you ALWAYS, until the END OF THE AGE.”

 

[Arch Stanton]

Just one small campaign in France.
Massacre at Béziers, (21–22 July 1209). This brutal massacre was the first major battle in the Albigensian Crusade called by Pope Innocent IIIagainst the Cathars, a religious sect. The French city of Béziers, a Cathar stronghold, was burned down and 20,000 residents killed after a papal legate, the Abbot of Cîteaux, declared, "Slaughter them all!"

Protestants killed Catholics in England, such as the execution of priests and monks who refused to recognize Henry VIII as the head of the Church..... and Ireland, etc.

 

[Arch Stanton]

Just one small campaign in France.
Massacre at Béziers, (21–22 July 1209). This brutal massacre was the first major battle in the Albigensian Crusade called by Pope Innocent IIIagainst the Cathars, a religious sect. The French city of Béziers, a Cathar stronghold, was burned down and 20,000 residents killed after a papal legate, the Abbot of Cîteaux, declared, "Slaughter them all!"

Just a quick search....

The Massacre at Béziers occurred during the Albigensian Crusade, a campaign initiated by the Catholic Church to eliminate the Cathar heresy in southern France. The Albigenses, also known as Cathars, held dualistic beliefs that sharply contrasted with Catholic doctrine. They believed in two opposing principles: one good, the creator of the spiritual world, and one evil, the creator of the material world. The Cathars' teachings posed a significant threat to the Catholic Church and the societal order of Christendom, where the salvation of souls was paramount. The Church's response to this heresy was the establishment of the Medieval Inquisition, which aimed to protect the common good and individual souls from heretical beliefs.

 

[Carbon]

A member of His body.

Then act like it.

What year, Carbon? Was it Christ's Church until the sixteenth century?

No, No. Not even close. I'd have to re-read a lot of history to come to a time actually. But I believe it's somewhere around the time when Rome denied faith alone. No, before that actually. Perhaps around 1000? I know when they denied salvation by faith alone put the lid on it though.

Zwingli and Luther did not agree on a few things.

Well, your popes didn't agree on a lot of things either.

If the Church Christ established 2,000 years ago fell into apostacy, what of the promises in scriptures?

Mt 16:18 I will build MY CHURCH, and the gates of the NETHERWORLD SHALL NOT PREVAIL against it.

The gates of hell have not prevailed against it.

 

[Carbon]

Just a quick search....

The Massacre at Béziers occurred during the Albigensian Crusade, a campaign initiated by the Catholic Church to eliminate the Cathar heresy in southern France. The Albigenses, also known as Cathars, held dualistic beliefs that sharply contrasted with Catholic doctrine. They believed in two opposing principles: one good, the creator of the spiritual world, and one evil, the creator of the material world. The Cathars' teachings posed a significant threat to the Catholic Church and the societal order of Christendom, where the salvation of souls was paramount. The Church's response to this heresy was the establishment of the Medieval Inquisition, which aimed to protect the common good and individual souls from heretical beliefs.

You keep poking and you will learn a lot. Hopefully enough to get you thinking.

 

[Arch Stanton]

Then act like it.

not very sporting of you Carbon... how am I acting?

No, No. Not even close. I'd have to re-read a lot of history to come to a time actually. But I believe it's somewhere around the time when Rome denied faith alone. No, before that actually. Perhaps around 1000? I know when they denied salvation by faith alone put the lid on it though.

Pretty important detail to not even know the century Carbon.... what of the millions who were Catholic during those centuries?

The gates of hell have not prevailed against it.

AMEN.... 2,000 YEARS AND COUNTING!