Did God accept the Old Testament sacrifices?

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

In Amos chapter 5, God says:

I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies. Though ye offer me burnt offerings and your meat offerings, I will not accept [them]: neither will I regard the peace offerings of your fat beasts. Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs; for I will not hear the melody of thy viols. But let judgment run down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream. Have ye offered unto me sacrifices and offerings in the wilderness forty years, O house of Israel? But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves. Therefore will I cause you to go into captivity beyond Damascus, saith the LORD, whose name [is] The God of hosts. [Amos 5:21-27 KJV]

But hold on, didn't God give them the sacrifices in the first several chapters of Leviticus? Especially troubling is the bit about the tabernacle... the tabernacle was to foreign gods?

-Jarrod

 

[Sereni-tea]

Idolatry - Israel's sin. If they had stayed true to the LORD, He would have accepted their sacrifice and their worship. But they chose to give their allegiance to other gods. Instead of enjoying the life-giving Presence of YHWH, the God of hosts, they chose the presence of other gods, ones they had made themselves. The result - exile.

 

[atpollard]

Hosea 6:6 [KJV] "For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings."

• The issue was NEVER about the dead animals being offered; God was always interested in the "heart" of the person making the offering.
• "Heart" in OT "Hebrew" scripture is not about "emotions and feelings" ... the heart is about our mind and thoughts that guide our actions:
  • [Gen 6:5 NKJV] 5 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every intent of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually.
  • [Gen 8:21 NKJV] 21 And the LORD smelled a soothing aroma. Then the LORD said in His heart, "I will never again curse the ground for man's sake, although the imagination of man's heart [is] evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done.
  • [Gen 27:41 NKJV] 41 So Esau hated Jacob because of the blessing with which his father blessed him, and Esau said in his heart, "The days of mourning for my father are at hand; then I will kill my brother Jacob."
  • [Pro 2:2 NKJV] 2 So that you incline your ear to wisdom, [And] apply your heart to understanding;
  • [Pro 2:10 NKJV] 10 When wisdom enters your heart, And knowledge is pleasant to your soul,
  • [Pro 3:5 NKJV] 5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding;
  • [Pro 4:4 NKJV] 4 He also taught me, and said to me: "Let your heart retain my words; Keep my commands, and live.
  • [Pro 6:18 NKJV] 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that are swift in running to evil,
  • [Pro 10:8 NKJV] 8 The wise in heart will receive commands, But a prating fool will fall.
  • [Pro 14:33 NKJV] 33 Wisdom rests in the heart of him who has understanding, But [what is] in the heart of fools is made known.
  • [Pro 15:14 NKJV] 14 The heart of him who has understanding seeks knowledge, But the mouth of fools feeds on foolishness.
  • [Pro 15:28 NKJV] 28 The heart of the righteous studies how to answer, But the mouth of the wicked pours forth evil.
  • [Pro 16:9 NKJV] 9 A man's heart plans his way, But the LORD directs his steps.

 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Hosea 6:6 [KJV] "For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings."

The issue was NEVER about the dead animals being offered; God was always interested in the "heart" of the person making the offering.

So, if God didn't desire sacrifice, then what's up with all the verses about sacrifices?

 

[atpollard]

So, if God didn't desire sacrifice, then what's up with all the verses about sacrifices?

Shadows and Typology ... it taught a spiritual lesson (several, actually) using a physical "visual aid".

• Would YOU like to speculate on what the animal sacrifice might teach human beings?

 

[Eleanor]

So, if God didn't desire sacrifice, then what's up with all the verses about sacrifices?

Context. . .God doesn't desire sacrifices that are offered by hypocritical hearts.

 

[Eleanor]

Hosea 6:6 [KJV] "For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings."

• The issue was NEVER about the dead animals being offered; God was always interested in the "heart" of the person making the offering.

Don't you think it was about the dead animals being offered, as they symbolized Christ's offering?

But Christ's offering is effective only through faith, and their hypocrisy was not faith, but unfaithfulness, making the sacrifices ineffective to them.

• "Heart" in OT "Hebrew" scripture is not about "emotions and feelings" ... the heart is about our mind and thoughts that guide our actions:
  • [Gen 6:5 NKJV] 5 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every intent of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually.
  • [Gen 8:21 NKJV] 21 And the LORD smelled a soothing aroma. Then the LORD said in His heart, "I will never again curse the ground for man's sake, although the imagination of man's heart [is] evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done.
  • [Gen 27:41 NKJV] 41 So Esau hated Jacob because of the blessing with which his father blessed him, and Esau said in his heart, "The days of mourning for my father are at hand; then I will kill my brother Jacob."
  • [Pro 2:2 NKJV] 2 So that you incline your ear to wisdom, [And] apply your heart to understanding;
  • [Pro 2:10 NKJV] 10 When wisdom enters your heart, And knowledge is pleasant to your soul,
  • [Pro 3:5 NKJV] 5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding;
  • [Pro 4:4 NKJV] 4 He also taught me, and said to me: "Let your heart retain my words; Keep my commands, and live.
  • [Pro 6:18 NKJV] 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that are swift in running to evil,
  • [Pro 10:8 NKJV] 8 The wise in heart will receive commands, But a prating fool will fall.
  • [Pro 14:33 NKJV] 33 Wisdom rests in the heart of him who has understanding, But [what is] in the heart of fools is made known.
  • [Pro 15:14 NKJV] 14 The heart of him who has understanding seeks knowledge, But the mouth of fools feeds on foolishness.
  • [Pro 15:28 NKJV] 28 The heart of the righteous studies how to answer, But the mouth of the wicked pours forth evil.
  • [Pro 16:9 NKJV] 9 A man's heart plans his way, But the LORD directs his steps.

 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Shadows and Typology ... it taught a spiritual lesson (several, actually) using a physical "visual aid".

• Would YOU like to speculate on what the animal sacrifice might teach human beings?

As nearly as I can tell, the folks in the Old Testament understood nothing about the fulfillment of the types. It's only understandable when you look BACK afterwards.

So if there was a lesson in the moment it would be something like cause and effect, crime and punishment...

I am not convinced that education was the purpose for the sacrifices. But the idea that the sacrifices were for the benefit of the people, rather than God... that seems like a good thought.

 

[atpollard]

As nearly as I can tell, the folks in the Old Testament understood nothing about the fulfillment of the types. It's only understandable when you look BACK afterwards.

So if there was a lesson in the moment it would be something like cause and effect, crime and punishment...

I am not convinced that education was the purpose for the sacrifices. But the idea that the sacrifices were for the benefit of the people, rather than God... that seems like a good thought.

I suspect that walking up to the Temple with your annual sin offering and smelling the burning flesh and hair and then seeing the river of blood flowing from the altar (from the many sacrifices before yours) as you wait your turn for the Priest to slit the throat of the squirming lamb that you were holding … probably went a long way towards communicating the message that as far as God was concerned, YOUR SIN was a VERY BIG DEAL.

Moses showed the people what a DELIVERER would look like, and the bloody sacrifice showed the people what the PROPITIATION looked like. Thus when Jesus quoted Psalm 22 from the cross … the people were without excuse not to recognize what was happening before their eyes.

 

[atpollard]

But Christ's offering is effective only through faith, and their hypocrisy was not faith, but unfaithfulness, making the sacrifices ineffective to them.

Hebrews 10:1-4 [NASB]​

For the Law, since it has [only] a shadow of the good things to come [and] not the form of those things itself, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually every year, make those who approach perfect. Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins? But in those [sacrifices] there is a reminder of sins every year. For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.​

The blood of animals was NEVER effective at removing sin. It was always about FAITH in God (and the coming sacrifice.)

 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

I suspect that walking up to the Temple with your annual sin offering and smelling the burning flesh and hair and then seeing the river of blood flowing from the altar (from the many sacrifices before yours) as you wait your turn for the Priest to slit the throat of the squirming lamb that you were holding … probably went a long way towards communicating the message that as far as God was concerned, YOUR SIN was a VERY BIG DEAL.

Moses showed the people what a DELIVERER would look like, and the bloody sacrifice showed the people what the PROPITIATION looked like. Thus when Jesus quoted Psalm 22 from the cross … the people were without excuse not to recognize what was happening before their eyes.

You do a good job of painting a picture with words.

The passage from Amos in the opening is quoted in Acts 7, by the martyr Stephen:

[Act 7:37-43 KJV] This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, 'A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.' This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and [with] our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us: To whom our fathers would not obey, but thrust [him] from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt, saying unto Aaron, 'Make us gods to go before us: for this Moses, which brought us out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.' And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands.

Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, 'O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices forty years in the wilderness? Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.'

I think the bold bits give the idea that the sacrifices were instituted for the Israelites as a reminder of their sin - offering sacrifices to other gods at the foot of Mt Sinai. That's in the same vein as what you said - they were there to convict them.

-Jarrod​

 

[Eleanor]

Hebrews 10:1-4 [NASB]​

​

For the Law, since it has [only] a shadow of the good things to come [and] not the form of those things itself, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually every year, make those who approach perfect. Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins? But in those [sacrifices] there is a reminder of sins every year. For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.​

The blood of animals was NEVER effective at removing sin. It was always about FAITH in God (and the coming sacrifice.)

Agreed. . .the blood of the animals covered sin (Ro 4:7) until it was expiated (Ro 3:25).

 

[Eleanor]

As nearly as I can tell, the folks in the Old Testament understood nothing about the fulfillment of the types. It's only understandable when you look BACK afterwards.

So if there was a lesson in the moment it would be something like cause and effect, crime and punishment...

I am not convinced that education was the purpose for the sacrifices. But the idea that the sacrifices were for the benefit of the people, rather than God... that seems like a good thought.

The purposes of the sacrifices were to foretell the sacrifice of Christ and to demonstrate the wages of sin; i e., death (Ro 6:23),

as all the ceremonial defilement and cleansing laws were to reveal the nature of sin; i.e., spiritual defilement, which must be cleansed.

 

[atpollard]

The purposes of the sacrifices were to foretell the sacrifice of Christ and to demonstrate the wages of sin; i e., death (Ro 6:23),

as all the ceremonial defilement and cleansing laws were to reveal the nature of sin; i.e., spiritual defilement, which must be cleansed.

I think it is, in part, like Moses and the Bronze Serpent ... it never fully makes sense ["A" never really pays for "B"] but it was always about trusting God and acting on FAITH.

GOD SAID IT, so I will do it and trust in God.

 

[Eleanor]

I think it is, in part, like Moses and the Bronze Serpent ... it never fully makes sense ["A" never really pays for "B"] but it was always about trusting God and acting on FAITH.

GOD SAID IT, so I will do it and trust in God.

Would it be that the thing which cured was in the likeness of that which wounded, as a picture of Christ (our remedy) who was made in the likeness of sinful flesh (Ro 8:3)?

 

[Arial]

Hebrews 10:1-4 [NASB]​

​

For the Law, since it has [only] a shadow of the good things to come [and] not the form of those things itself, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually every year, make those who approach perfect. Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins? But in those [sacrifices] there is a reminder of sins every year. For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.​

The blood of animals was NEVER effective at removing sin. It was always about FAITH in God (and the coming sacrifice.)

I agree. The animal sacrifices were a temporary covering as the plan of Redemption moved towards the coming of Christ. The Bible does not tells us that the Israelites who offered the sacrifices without faith did not at death have their sins judged and condemned. And the majority of who we see in the scriptures aptly proved they had no faith by also worshiping other Gods and breaking other aspects of the Law. (David for example, though he sinned, never, ever worshiped idols.)

The Bible does tell us Hebrews that the sacrifices had to be repeated year after year because they could not cleanse the conscience of anyone.

What the blood of animals did was verify what God had said. That without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. And what that shows us is that the forgiveness of redemption cannot be done by us. That it will require a substitute. One life (the life is in the blood) in place of the other. And that substitutionary life must be one of the same kind as those who need redeemed. A man. And that man must be without any sin of his own. Which means he cannot be born in Adam and must be God, who alone is without sin. Faith in Jesus and His work, is faith in God. And faith is counted as righteousness. The sin of Adam with which we are born, and the thing that separates us from God, and the power it has over us to condemn, was defeated on the cross.

 

[atpollard]

Would it be that the thing which cured was in the likeness of that which wounded, as a picture of Christ (our remedy) who was made in the likeness of sinful flesh (Ro 8:3)?

I assume we are speaking about the Bronze snake on a pole that Moses made. There is a BOATLOAD of CHRIST symbolism in that story.

• The people had sinned and fallen under the Judgement of God.
• God had Judged the nation and, as all were guilty, God had sentenced all to death.
  • So far, does this sound ANYTHING like a world full of sinful people described in Romans chapters 1 to 3?
• God sent poison snakes to bite the guilty people and kill them.
  • Going back to the Garden of Eden, the snake is the symbol of SIN and the wages of sin is DEATH ... so here we have a living picture of a guilty people, judged and being killed by their sin.
• Moses makes a BRONZE SNAKE.
  • Bronze is the metal used for Judgement and Cleansing ... look at what items in the Temple are made of Bronze - they all have to do with the sacrifice. Thus a BRONZE SNAKE is SIN that has been JUDGED.
• Moses then hangs the bronze snake (sin judged) from a wooden pole.
  • "Cursed is everyone that hangs from a tree/pole" - the Bronze snake (judged sin) is CURSED by God.
• Look what happens next ... ANYONE that is bitten by a snake (sentenced to death by their sin) that LOOKS to the bronze snake on the pole (sin, judged and cursed) and TRUSTS GOD will LIVE!
  • All of the WORK is done by the snake on the pole - we just need to look and have faith.

Fast forward to John 3 ...

John 3:14-18 [NASB]

"And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, so that everyone who believes will have eternal life in Him. For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him. The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God."​

​

Can you see the parallels and Jesus real message in John 3?
It was the Moses and Bronze Snake story playing out all over again ... only WE were condemned and Jesus was going to take on the role of the Bronze snake. He would be judged and cursed and hung on a cross - our sin condemned by God. We had only to LOOK to Jesus and BELIEVE and we would LIVE!

Jesus was explaining this to Nicodemus - a teacher of teachers - who KNEW all about Moses and the snake.

 

[Soyeong]

In Amos chapter 5, God says:

I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies. Though ye offer me burnt offerings and your meat offerings, I will not accept [them]: neither will I regard the peace offerings of your fat beasts. Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs; for I will not hear the melody of thy viols. But let judgment run down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream. Have ye offered unto me sacrifices and offerings in the wilderness forty years, O house of Israel? But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves. Therefore will I cause you to go into captivity beyond Damascus, saith the LORD, whose name [is] The God of hosts. [Amos 5:21-27 KJV]

But hold on, didn't God give them the sacrifices in the first several chapters of Leviticus? Especially troubling is the bit about the tabernacle... the tabernacle was to foreign gods?

-Jarrod

Isaiah 1:11-17
11 “What to me is the multitude of your sacrifices?
says the Lord;
I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams
and the fat of well-fed beasts;
I do not delight in the blood of bulls,
or of lambs, or of goats.
12 “When you come to appear before me,
who has required of you
this trampling of my courts?
13 Bring no more vain offerings;
incense is an abomination to me.
New moon and Sabbath and the calling of convocations—
I cannot endure iniquity and solemn assembly.
14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts
my soul hates;
they have become a burden to me;
I am weary of bearing them.
15 When you spread out your hands,
I will hide my eyes from you;
even though you make many prayers,
I will not listen;
your hands are full of blood.
16 Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean;
remove the evil of your deeds from before my eyes;
cease to do evil,
17 learn to do good;
seek justice,
correct oppression;
bring justice to the fatherless,
plead the widow's cause.

The problem is the above verses is not with offerings, holy days, or prayer, but that they are doing things while their hands were full of blood, so they needed to stop doing evil and seek justice. Likewise

Psalms 51:16-19
For you will not delight in sacrifice, or I would give it;
you will not be pleased with a burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit;
a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.
18 Do good to Zion in your good pleasure;
build up the walls of Jerusalem;
19 then will you delight in right sacrifices,
in burnt offerings and whole burnt offerings;
then bulls will be offered on your altar.

Again, the problem was not with their offerings, but that they first needed to have a broken and contrite heart, then God will delight in right sacrifices. So the issue in Amos is not that God doesn't accept OT offerings, but that he doesn't accept OT offerings that were not done with a broken and contrite heart.

 

[GeneZ]

In Amos chapter 5, God says:

I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies. Though ye offer me burnt offerings and your meat offerings, I will not accept [them]: neither will I regard the peace offerings of your fat beasts. Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs; for I will not hear the melody of thy viols. But let judgment run down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream. Have ye offered unto me sacrifices and offerings in the wilderness forty years, O house of Israel? But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves. Therefore will I cause you to go into captivity beyond Damascus, saith the LORD, whose name [is] The God of hosts. [Amos 5:21-27 KJV]

But hold on, didn't God give them the sacrifices in the first several chapters of Leviticus? Especially troubling is the bit about the tabernacle... the tabernacle was to foreign gods?

-Jarrod

The sacrifices for the Law became hypocrisy.
For they were sacrificing their children in their worship of Moloch.
https://www.chabad.org/parshah/arti...-Tragic-History-of-Molech-Child-Sacrifice.htm

 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Again, the problem was not with their offerings, but that they first needed to have a broken and contrite heart, then God will delight in right sacrifices. So the issue in Amos is not that God doesn't accept OT offerings, but that he doesn't accept OT offerings that were not done with a broken and contrite heart.

Like I said above, the sacrifices were instituted immediately after the Israelites sinned... by offering sacrifices to another god. I think it's a bit like when a dog pees in the house and you rub his nose in it. God is saying, "Bad Israel! Bad!"

They are meant to reflect on the nature of their sin and be convicted, but instead...