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Colossians 1:17

I would argue that the Spirit is in everyone including those in Hell based on Col. 1:17 And He Himself existed and is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. [His is the controlling, cohesive force of the universe.] AMP When it says the Spirit Indwells us that would refer to "indwells us for our benefit" IMO. Lot's of verses saying the Spirit is helping those In Christ.
Those in hell have the Spirit indwelling them in that the Spirit keeps them alive to suffer torment. (" and in Him all things hold together.")

I suppose one should define what they mean by Indwelled by the Spirit. I believe all of God is always in every atom in every moment of time right now...that time does not confine Him, nor the fact someone is in hell.
Great explanation! I agree. Without the Spirit nothing would exist. Not everyone has enough (if I may say) to be saved but enough to exist.
The prob is many are trained by the world to look at things through its lens.

And they have a difficult time to think out of that box.
 
Greetings Brothers and Sisters, I would love to hear your thoughts about the 2nd half of v17, the part that is in bold above (what you believe about that half of the verse and why, and perhaps what you believe concerning the scope of it too).

Thanks everyone :)

God bless you!!

--Papa Smurf
p.s. - likewise..................

Hebrews 1
The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His nature, upholding all things by His powerful word.
.
All life exists by the power of Christ Himself.
 
Great explanation! I agree. Without the Spirit nothing would exist. Not everyone has enough (if I may say) to be saved but enough to exist.
The prob is many are trained by the world to look at things through its lens.

And they have a difficult time to think out of that box.
Except that Romans 8:9 refutes such a notion. All the lost are without the Spirit, thus to take this logic and apply it here, they too would have to have the indwelling Spirit as well in order to exist.

Um. No. This goes against revealed Scriptural truths.

God doesn't need to place His Spirit in those within Hell for it to continue. Such a notion is heterodox, is absurd and remains a 2 Timothy 2:15 fail.
 
Except that Romans 8:9 refutes such a notion. All the lost are without the Spirit, thus to take this logic and apply it here, they too would have to have the indwelling Spirit as well in order to exist.

Um. No. This goes against revealed Scriptural truths.

God doesn't need to place His Spirit in those within Hell for it to continue. Such a notion is heterodox, is absurd and remains a 2 Timothy 2:15 fail.
It’s in the measure. Without the Spirit, the tree in your yard wouldn’t exist.
 
THE SECOND HELVETIC CONFESSION CHAPTER III - Of God, His Unity and Trinity
Thus there are not three gods, but three persons, co-substantial, coeternal, and coequal; distinct with respect to hypostases, and with respect to order, the one preceding the other yet without any inequality. For according to the nature or essence they are so joined together that they are one God, and the divine nature is common to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Well, as I read the confession above, there is not difference between the 3 persons of the Trinity in regard to presence, knowledge, power... pretty much everything
So did the Triune God died on the cross? No. How can Jesus experience the separation from the Father when He took our sins upon Himself if The Triune God had died on the cross?

Matthew 27:45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour. 46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

So did the Triune God did the drawing of sinners? No.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Believers are giving that credit to the Holy Spirit but that is not what the scriptures says.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

What about co-equal in authority when it is the Father's will be done and neither the Son's nor the Holy Spirit's? Look at Jesus's prayer from the Garden of Gethsemane to the Father in Heaven.

Matthew 26:39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.... 42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done..... 44 And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words.

Scripture is what we should stick to as truth rather than Second Helvetic Confession or the Westminster catechism or the Nicene creeds. Errors have crept in as they are not aligning with scripture after all.
I would argue that what Christ (Son of God) or the Father does, the Spirit does also. We disagree.
Scriptures certainly agree with me.
We probably don't want to get into the mystery of the Trinity.
Scriptures is to testify of the Son so that we would come to Him for life.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

It is not about presenting the Triune God as if that is another and yet broad way in coming to God by.
Hmmm, if God indwelling us is more than beneficial, what part of God indwelling us is not a benefit?
It is not about beneficial or not being beneficial when it is more than just about benefits when He indwells you as that is a hope we are to have that one day we will be made perfect to dwell with Him in Heaven in our resurrected new & glorified bodies.

1 John 3:1Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
 
It’s in the measure. Without the Spirit, the tree in your yard wouldn’t exist.
Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

I would still say by the scripture above as opposing your example, that everything consists by the Word of God since Jesus cursed the fig tree, right?

Matthew 21:18 Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered. 19 And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away. 20 And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!

21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done. 22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

Therefore the Holy Spirit was not in that fig tree thus your example cannot be true. And yet how does one apply faith for those incredible things to happen? By faith in the Word of God.
 
Which means what? Scripture?

So now trees are Spirit indwelt? How about Satan, Spirit indwelt as well? Demons too?

The fact remains his position has no Biblical support whatsoever.
I believe it was on the misapplication of Colossians 1:17 by how they saw that to be the Spirit when that was about Jesus Christ, the Word of God.

Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
 
I believe it was on the misapplication of Colossians 1:17 by how they saw that to be the Spirit when that was about Jesus Christ, the Word of God.
It's some serious eisegesis going on with a huge failure to implement 2 Timothy 2:15...
Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
 
Which means what? Scripture?

So now trees are Spirit indwelt? How about Satan, Spirit indwelt as well? Demons too?

The fact remains his position has no Biblical support whatsoever.
The trees in your yard are self existent. And they keep themselves also. I know. What was I thinking?
 
The trees in your yard are self existent. And they keep themselves also. I know. What was I thinking?
They don’t need God to keep them around….. those trees is bad!
 
Lol, I never asserted such a thing. Straw man.

ditto, another straw man.

I don't know what you're thinking to be honest. Nothing in Scripture supports the notion being posited that those in hell are indwelt. It's absurd and unBiblical.
Is God or is God not the sustainer of the universe? Or if you rather, of His creation?
 
Is God or is God not the sustainer of the universe? Or if you rather, of His creation?
Question is Who does it? The Word of God as in Jesus Christ or the Spirit?

@fastfredy0 had applied Colossians 1:17 as if that was about the Holy Spirit when that was about Jesus Christ.

fastfredy0 said:
I would argue that the Spirit is in everyone including those in Hell based on Col. 1:17 And He Himself existed and is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. [His is the controlling, cohesive force of the universe.] AMP When it says the Spirit Indwells us that would refer to "indwells us for our benefit" IMO. Lot's of verses saying the Spirit is helping those In Christ.
Those in hell have the Spirit indwelling them in that the Spirit keeps them alive to suffer torment. (" and in Him all things hold together.")

I suppose one should define what they mean by Indwelled by the Spirit. I believe all of God is always in every atom in every moment of time right now...that time does not confine Him, nor the fact someone is in hell.

Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
 
Question is Who does it? The Word of God as in Jesus Christ or the Spirit?
So you speak as if there are a couple God’s. Is not the Triune God in agreement in all things?
 
So you speak as if there are a couple God’s. Is not the Triune God in agreement in all things?
Only the Father's will is done for how the Son and the Holy Spirit are in agreement.
 
Is God or is God not the sustainer of the universe?
Non sequitur, but of course. That doesn't mean those in hell are indwelt. The text teaches nor implies anything of the sort.

Or if you rather, of His creation?
Again, nothing in Scripture supports his notion of those in hell being indwelt.

This is bordering on Panthesism and is pure eisegesis.
 
So did the Triune God died on the cross? No. How can Jesus experience the separation from the Father when He took our sins upon Himself if The Triune God had died on the cross?
None of the 3 person making up the Trinity died on the cross. God CAN NOT DIE!
The son of man (Christ's human nature) can be separated from the Trinity; he can be "foresaken" by the Trinity.



What about co-equal in authority when it is the Father's will be done and neither the Son's nor the Holy Spirit's?
The Father, Son and Spirit's will are one in the same thing. They NEVER disagree with one another. They are one God.


Scripture is what we should stick to as truth rather than Second Helvetic Confession or the Westminster catechism or the Nicene creeds. Errors have crept in as they are not aligning with scripture after all.
Well, granted, man is subject to error. Could be you that is in error. There is wisdom in the council of many so odds are that the Catechism and creeds more likely to be correct. Guess we have to agreed to disagree amicably. (Aside: cool, I spelt amicably correctly without "spell check")
 
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