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'Church', never mentioned in the OT but 111 times in the NT. Why?

prism

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And that is giving the OT an approximate 66% handicap.
 
And that is giving the OT an approximate 66% handicap.
In the Old Testament, God's people were the nation of Israel, mainly. (There were some Gentiles, like Ruth and Rahab). So with national Israel, there was no need for a calling out. In the New Testament, the gospel is shown to be for the Gentiles too:

“30 For my eyes have seen Your salvation 31 Which You have prepared before the face of all peoples, 32 A light to [bring] revelation to the Gentiles, And the glory of Your people Israel."” (Lu 2:30-32 NKJV)

There was now to be no difference between Jewish and Gentile Christians:

“For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.” (Ro 10:12 NKJV)

"Greek" is sometimes used for "Gentiles" in the New Testament.


The word "church" translates a Greek word meaning "called out". Christian believers are those who have been "called out" by God. We read something of this in Revelation:

“And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,” (Re 5:9 NKJV)

So in the Old Testament, it was basically a nation. In the New Testament, it's those who are called out by God from every nation, the church.
 
And that is giving the OT an approximate 66% handicap.
In Acts 7:38 Stephen speaks of God’s people whom He brought out of Egypt as “the church in the wilderness”.

They were referred to as the assembly.
 
In the Old Testament, God's people were the nation of Israel, mainly. (There were some Gentiles, like Ruth and Rahab). So with national Israel, there was no need for a calling out. In the New Testament, the gospel is shown to be for the Gentiles too:

“30 For my eyes have seen Your salvation 31 Which You have prepared before the face of all peoples, 32 A light to [bring] revelation to the Gentiles, And the glory of Your people Israel."” (Lu 2:30-32 NKJV)

There was now to be no difference between Jewish and Gentile Christians:

“For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.” (Ro 10:12 NKJV)

"Greek" is sometimes used for "Gentiles" in the New Testament.


The word "church" translates a Greek word meaning "called out". Christian believers are those who have been "called out" by God. We read something of this in Revelation:

“And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,” (Re 5:9 NKJV)

So in the Old Testament, it was basically a nation. In the New Testament, it's those who are called out by God from every nation, the church.
None of this answers the question 'Why 111 times in the NT. 0 times in the OT?'
 
In Acts 7:38 Stephen speaks of God’s people whom He brought out of Egypt as “the church in the wilderness”.

They were referred to as the assembly.
Again, none of this answers the question 'Why 111 times in the NT. 0 times in the OT?' You would think if what Stephen said was accurate you would at least find the word 'Church' one or two times in the OT.
 
Again, none of this answers the question 'Why 111 times in the NT. 0 times in the OT?' You would think if what Stephen said was accurate you would at least find the word 'Church' one or two times in the OT.
Stephen wasn’t accurate?

Stephen viewed the people of God under the old covenant as the church. I wouldn’t disagree.
 
Stephen viewed the people of God under the old covenant as the church.
Do you have any kind of Scriptural or contemporary writing (of that period) backing up your assertion? Or is that a guess?
 
In Acts 7:38 Stephen speaks of God’s people whom He brought out of Egypt as “the church in the wilderness”.

They were referred to as the assembly.
The 'church in the wilderness' normally called an 'assembly' (קָהָל qāhāl) where people are called together. The same with synagogue. But ekklesia has more to do with being 'called out. That's the word used in Acts 7:38, as they were called out of Egypt. Big difference.
 
The 'church in the wilderness' normally called an 'assembly' (קָהָל qāhāl) where people are called together. The same with synagogue. But ekklesia has more to do with being 'called out. That's the word used in Acts 7:38, as they were called out of Egypt. Big difference.
Not “Big difference” to Stephen. Or me.
 
None of this answers the question 'Why 111 times in the NT. 0 times in the OT?'
You say that it doesn't answer the question, but surely it does. If "church" means "called out ones", and if in the Old Testament, God's people were, on the whole, a nation, not called out of every nation, there was not so much need in the Old Testament for the word "church".
 
You say that it doesn't answer the question, but surely it does. If "church" means "called out ones", and if in the Old Testament, God's people were, on the whole, a nation, not called out of every nation, there was not so much need in the Old Testament for the word "church".
Could you rephrase that in terms of Israel and the Church?
 
The church is synonymous with the kingdom of God, body of Christ. It includes all who are saved by faith since the creation of the world.
 
'Church,' Never mentioned in the OT but 111 times in the NT. Why? And that is giving the OT an approximate 66% handicap.
The original assertion is incorrect.

The word "church" is mentioned in the OT, it's just not the Greek word "ecclesia." When the Jews translated their scripture (the Tanakh, or what we call the "Old Testament") into Greek they translated the Hebrew word for the "assembly" (Heb.: qahal) using the Greek word, "ecclesia." The New Testament writers, all of whom were Jews, used that word to describe the assembly of those following Jesus. This is one of the many reasons the early follows of The Way (the way of Christ) were persecuted so violently. The apostles were implicitly asserting it was the followers of Christ that were the qahal, the true assembly of God, and not the old-line Jews, especially not those following the Sadducees. It was the followers of Christ who were among those who were "called out," those whose ancestors included Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Isaiah, Jeremiah, etc.

Exodus 12:5
You shall keep it until the fourteenth day of the same month, then the whole assembly (qahal) of the congregation of Israel is to slaughter it at twilight.

"Qahal," and its conjugated variations occurs about 70 times in the OT (although not all uses are references to God's people). The English word "assembly" occurs 117 times, but not all of them are "qahal."


This may be part of the reason Gamaliel placated the Jewish leaders, whose power was couched in the Sadducees. Gamaliel, who was of the Pharisaic school within Judaism, believed in a resurrection, and afterlife. While he was not a convert to Christ, he was, apparently, tolerant, if not sympathetic, to the teachings of Christ. The biblical record shows only Pharisees converting to Christ; never Sadducees. I'm speculating, but a Pharisee, Gamaliel, arguing in the assembly ;) of Council and Senate of the Jewish leadership who all thought of themselves as the qahal/ecclesia, "Guys, don't worry. If Jesus is just another false prophet, then those nutcases will drift apart under the weight of their own lie. If Jesus is not a false prophet, then it's best not to get in God's way," makes perfect sense - especially from the perspective of Luke.

This is also why some among us in Christendom, like the Dispensationalists, Christian Zionists, and those prone to Judaizing Christianity get their ecclesiology wrong. Scripture itself overtly asserts a continuity and common identity between the Hebraic assembly and the Christian called out. The assembly is not the only place his is witnessed. The OT also repeatedly asserts characteristics and/or attributes of God's people in the OT that are later applied to the Christian saints.
 
The word "church" is mentioned in the OT, it's just not the Greek word "ecclesia." When the Jews translated their scripture (the Tanakh, or what we call the "Old Testament") into Greek they translated the Hebrew word for the "assembly" (Heb.: qahal) using the Greek word, "ecclesia." The New Testament writers, all of whom were Jews, used that word to describe the assembly of those following Jesus. This is one of the many reasons the early follows of The Way (the way of Christ) were persecuted so violently. The apostles were implicitly asserting it was the followers of Christ that were the qahal, the true assembly of God, and not the old-line Jews, especially not those following the Sadducees. It was the followers of Christ who were among those who were "called out," those whose ancestors included Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Isaiah, Jeremiah, etc.
Interesting. Where would we find ἐκκλησία in the Septuagint?
 
You say that it doesn't answer the question, but surely it does. If "church" means "called out ones", and if in the Old Testament, God's people were, on the whole, a nation, not called out of every nation, there was not so much need in the Old Testament for the word "church".


I would offer it is in respect to the second born seed (spiritual Christ) born again Abel the first second born was replaced by another it was then that born again mankind could call out Abba as called ones

Genesis 4: 25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew. And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.


The let there be Father of all nations signified by the word Abraham.
 
Could you rephrase that in terms of Israel and the Church?
I will try to do that:

You say that it doesn't answer the question, but surely it does. "Church" means "called out ones", and if in the Old Testament, God's people were, on the whole, one nation, Israel, not like the New Testament church, which consists of individuals called out of every nation, there was not so much need in the Old Testament for the word "church", because Israel was a nation, not called-out individuals.
 
I will try to do that:

You say that it doesn't answer the question, but surely it does. "Church" means "called out ones", and if in the Old Testament, God's people were, on the whole, one nation, Israel, not like the New Testament church, which consists of individuals called out of every nation, there was not so much need in the Old Testament for the word "church", because Israel was a nation, not called-out individuals.

I would offer not all Israel is Israel.

Not all of Israel are called out or born again .

Some remained after Jacob to represent the unredeemed

God changed her name to Christian a more befitting name to name the bride of all nations. Not all Christians like Israel are called out ones.
 
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