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Christian Spirituality

Carbon

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Has anyone read or plan to read.......

Christian Spirituality
the five views of sanctification.
 
I've got it but haven't yet read it. I like books presenting comparative views. Why do you ask?
 
I've got it but haven't yet read it. I like books presenting comparative views. Why do you ask?
I have the book. It’s very good on the subject. I think you will find the Lutheran view very interesting.
 
I think you will find the Lutheran view very interesting.
Probably. I'm going part way with Luther regarding his view it is possible but rare to lose one's salvation (Perseverance of the Saints) and his differing view pertaining to what we now call "Irresistible Grace," but as far as sanctification goes Luther abided a post-conversion synergistic sanctification. I don't expect Forde to say otherwise, and I don't generally find a lot of difference between Lutherans and Presbyterians. The biggest divide is the denominational allegiance, not doctrinal differences. I have read some critiques and criticisms of his views and - not having read him personally - perceive a degree of unfairness and likely misrepresentation. One critic complained about a lack of footnotes. pffft! Haters gonna hate. I do find a certain irony existing in Lutheran sanctification when they equate sanctification with salvation. It reminds me of the RCC conflation of salvation and justification. I don't know Forde's views very well, but my understanding is that he falls on the liberal side of the Lutheran perspective so maybe I'll be surprised.

I'll put the book at the top of my list and start reading it this weekend (I have another book to finish on a deadline) and, if you like, let you know my thoughts.
 
Probably. I'm going part way with Luther regarding his view it is possible but rare to lose one's salvation (Perseverance of the Saints) and his differing view pertaining to what we now call "Irresistible Grace," but as far as sanctification goes Luther abided a post-conversion synergistic sanctification. I don't expect Forde to say otherwise, and I don't generally find a lot of difference between Lutherans and Presbyterians. The biggest divide is the denominational allegiance, not doctrinal differences. I have read some critiques and criticisms of his views and - not having read him personally - perceive a degree of unfairness and likely misrepresentation. One critic complained about a lack of footnotes. pffft! Haters gonna hate. I do find a certain irony existing in Lutheran sanctification when they equate sanctification with salvation. It reminds me of the RCC conflation of salvation and justification. I don't know Forde's views very well, but my understanding is that he falls on the liberal side of the Lutheran perspective so maybe I'll be surprised.

I'll put the book at the top of my list and start reading it this weekend (I have another book to finish on a deadline) and, if you like, let you know my thoughts.
You'll find the Lutheran view according to Forde, sanctification is just getting used to justification. I can't quite settle on that to the extent he is saying but, darn, it makes sense.
You may not agree and of course, that's okay, but I still believe sanctification is monergistic, and Forde's explanation, gosh, I can almost agree. Perhaps as I study into it, I may.

But I am very curious about your and others' thoughts if you read it.
 
@Carbon,

I read Forde's article last night. I have not read the critiques of Forde's views yet and neither have I read the other authors' views. I did find some personal agreement with Forde but mostly disagreement and I find his reasoning faulty in many places. My examination and analysis may be too detailed so we can simplify it if you like but I went through the chapter a second time and considered it line by line, making an effort to follow the "flow" of his reasoning. I am listing the many statements, or claims, or positions Forde asserts. The list is in my own words but I can readily demonstrate their integrity with Forde's statements if there any doubts to that effect.

  • Sanctification is by God alone.
  • Sanctification is by faith alone.
  • Sanctification is justification (but maybe not).
  • Sanctification happens when "we" grasp the fact God alone justifies. (g)
  • Sanctification is being made holy; the work of the Spirit, not the work of the old self.
  • Sanctification is being saved from deathly sickness.
  • Sanctification is being called to new life.
  • Sanctification is being "salvationed."
  • Sanctification is conditioned upon hearing "God alone saves." (g)
  • Sanctification is the art of getting used to justification (w)
  • Sanctification is NOT something added to justification.
  • Sanctification is NOT the final defense against a justification that is grated too liberally.
  • Sanctification is what happens when the old being comes up against the end of its self-justifying and self-gratifying ways.
  • Sanctification is life lived in anticipation of the resurrection. (w)
  • Sanctification is not the kind of life "we" would wish.
  • Sanctification is not the moral life (piety).
  • Sanctification is the result of dying to the old self and rising to the new (w)
  • Sanctification is hidden from the sanctified.
  • Sanctification is NOT something "we" seek.
  • God is always the "actor" of sanctification.

Those are the many ways Forde defines sanctification. Forde then asserts the alternative of the "argument" needing to be corrected is the belief,

  • Sanctification rescues salvation from grace.
  • Sanctification must be separated from justification.

Having established (at least in his mind) sanctification is synonymous with justification he then spends the rest of his apologetic asserting and defending justification by God alone and faith alone. It is bait and switch, imo. Subtle, but there nonetheless. It reminded me of the Catholic tendency to conflate salvation with justification, and since Luther was first Catholic and Forde's views come from Luther, it makes a certain amount of sense. It's still a conflation and the chapter is still an unstated move of the goalposts that (will probably) result in a false equivalence with the other authors.

There is much with which I can agree but in the end the balance is weighted on the side of disagreement, not agreement, and I am not convinced Forde's view is representative of orthodox Lutheranism. Bonhoeffer would certainly find fault with some of what Forde wrote, and I'm fairly confident I can find Luther saying some things different than Forde. However, rather than doing an intra-Lutheran comparison of views, or an inter-doctrinal comparison, I'll just critique the above points from my own pov. Keep in mind the bullet lists above cover only the first four pages (or so) of Forde's views.
 
Part 2:

My first thought was he needs to define his terms. My second thought was he's playing fast and loose with language so that it appears he is saying something of substance when he is not (largely because he has not defined his terms). My third thought was this sounds Christianese, but is it? My conclusion is that much of it is sophistry, not truth we could find stated in the Bible. That could be discarded as personal biases on my part (even though I do not believe that to be the case) but what seems undeniable is his use of "we." Forde uses "we" to refer exclusively to the "old self." Forde never speaks of the "we" as the new self. For Forde sanctification is a confrontation of the old self with God and God's work and I, personally, reject that premise in large part (not in entirety). I'll explain that later. The "we" he uses is the "old self," not the new self. For Forde there is only the old self and God. Forde does not entertain the existence of the new self in sanctification so he has created a false dichotomy where God alone is the sole agent of sanctification, and the only other alternative is the old self. There is absolutely no arena in which the sanctifying work of God in the old self has any positive or enabling effect in the saved person! God never enables the person He has bought, justified, sanctified and saved to be his or her own agent with or for God. The saved person always and everywhere remains an obstacle to God, always His enemy and never His friend, or collaborator. God is always working but His work never bears any fruit until resurrection. Ever working, but never worked, never accomplishing anything until the end. I reject that position for many reasons, chief of which is the fact the scriptures tell us the old is gone, the new has come. My old self has been and is being crucified with Christ. There is a fait accompli as well as an ongoing work - both by God.
 
Part 3:

I define justification merely as a legal term in which a person has a legal ability or justification, to stand before God. Nothing more. I define sanctification as cleansing or cleaning, and in a more detailed sense the setting aside, or setting apart something for the purpose of consecrating it, or making it sacred (sacred = having to do with divine or religious purpose). There is, therefore, a lot of overlap or synonymous-ness with the term "holy." The word "holy simply means "separate," but when used religiously or spiritually it carried with it the connotation of being separated specifically for divine purpose. It does not mean clean. The two words, therefore, overlap but are not identical or redundant. The Hebrew terms means consecrated. The first time the Bible uses the word sanctify is in Genesis 2:3 where God sanctified the seventh day. The first time we read of anything being sanctified in the New Testament is in Matthew 23:17 when Jesus speaks of the gold being sanctified by the temple. The Greek term used also means "set apart," and also carries with it the connotation of something being consecrated or set aside specifically for divine or religious purpose BUT it also possesses the added connotation of being both hallowed/honored and purified. It was unclean; it is made clean. This distinction is important because many things were made separate by God in the Old Testament, but none of them were actually made clean. Old Testament purification was largely symbolic and always only a function of God's doing, not rituals of fleshly works. The nation Israel was set apart. Israel was holy. Israel was "consecrated" but the nation Israel 1) NEVER had any cleanness of its own, and 2) was never made clean. For the day it was separated for divine purpose to the end of both Tanakh and the Bible Israel remained ontologically sinful, corrupt, dead, and sinfully enslaved. It is in the New Testament work of Christ at Calvary that we find an ontological cleansing of the purchased sinner made alive in Christ. We die still corruptible, but the Christian life is supposed to be one of renewal, of the old self dead and dying, of becoming increasingly cleansed of iniquity and thereby a testimony for God and Christ that shows God changes life and we can, therefore have evidence of the fundamental Christian foundation: death has been conquered.

This is largely missing from Forde's chapter. I hope at least one of the other authors writes about this, and I will consider the book inadequate in its entirety of there is silence on this matter. I do not know how anyone can write about sanctification and not include the setting apart, the divine purpose, and its cleansing aspects.

God has rebirthed or regenerated a dead and enslaved sinner who had only his/her flesh by which to think, feel, will, act and relate. having birthed the dead sinner that sinner now has something more than just his flesh by which he can think, feel, will, act, and relate. He is now something more than what he was. He was dead but is now alive. He was ONLY refuse and now he is prized. He was only dirty but has now been made clean (2 Pet. 1:9). The NT ties rebirth, renewal, and washing together in sanctification (this post is lengthy so I'm not including scripture for every detail, but I can fill in the blanks where needed).
 
Part 4:

The bold-face and italicized bullet points are ones with which I completely agree. The points in bold-face alone and not italicized are points with which I agree mostly or in part. I agree with Forde that sanctification is monergistic in conversion and the early process of salvation, but I disagree with his view sanctification is only and always monergistic. I believe the purpose of sanctification prior to and at conversion is so that the individual's life does change here on earth and part of that change is making the individual collaborative with God when s/he was previously only and always at enmity with God and only and always His enemy. We become sons of God! The old has gone and the new has come and the life we live we live by faith in Jesus. The NT most often speaks of sanctification in either the past tense or the already accomplished sense. Th word "sanctified" (past tense) is used scores more frequently than "sanctifying" (ongoing or future tense), and that is largely absent from Forde's chapter.

I also think Forde has the cart before the horse when he speaks of sanctification being something that happens when the old self confronts something, and I completely disagree with his view we do not want sanctification. Of course, I am going to define the "we" differently than Forde. We are the regenerate and the regenerate long for sanctification we WANT it and we want more of it! The only conflict I have with God in that regard is, "Why is it taking so long?" but, of course (again), that is part of the process. Learning to wait on God is sanctifying ;). Forde is correct if he means that tension or suffering the regenerate feels when being cleaned out/up is the old self - the old fleshly, sinful self - wanting to hang on to his old self, but he is wrong if he means the regenerate self fights with God and does not want change. I also agree with Forde's separating (no pun intended) sanctification from piety and Piety. Living well is the result of sanctification, not the sanctification itself. Forde therefore failed to make a distinction between sanctification and sanctified. That which is being sanctified is not yet sanctified. The sanctified do not need sanctification. False dichotomies are fallacious. A more holistic view of sanctification is necessary and scripture speaks of that more holistic view.

Which brings me to another concern. I kept looking for scripture! Where's the scripture? Where's the scripture? What scripture Frde did cite was used well and for that I commend his article. However, the first scripture he used, 1 Corinthians 12 plainly states sanctification is already existing, not something future - which is what Forde argued. Forde is correct to say sanctification cannot be wholly separated from salvation or justification but he is wrong to conflate the three. I believe he argued the matter that way because his agenda was to defend justification by faith NOT monergistic versus synergistic sanctification. Sanctification sharing salvific terrain with justification does not mean sanctification does not also possess its own ground or that justification does not also possess its own ground - both of which are first found monergistically in God/Jesus/the Spirit.
 
Part 5:

The bullet points with the (g) at the end sound Gnostic. Knowledge does not bring sanctification and since sanctification in Forde's view is synonymous and never separate from or an addition to salvation and justification knowledge saves. That is Gnostic. I suspect Forde simply articulated the matter poorly because if he is orthodox Lutheran then he wholly rejects all Gnostic views. The bullet points with the (w) are points indicating works, and again, I suspect and hope this is simply poorly articulated because otherwise he has two problems: 1) he has contradicted his statements sanctification is by grace alone by faith alone and never by works and never a matter of piety, and 2) Lutherans do not believe in works that way. There are other internal contradictions in Forde's argument, such as the "we" not wanting and confronting sanctification and having knowledge grace directly contradicting sanctification is hidden. If it were truly hidden then we'd have absolutely no knowledge or experience of anything related to sanctification and if that is the case that is going to run into conflict with the purpose of sanctification being separation, divine purpose, and cleansing and his beliefs we know something about it and do not want or like it.

So, in the end, I agree with Forde sanctification being a work of God by grace but not by faith. Justification is by faith. Sanctification is through faith and occurs in the faithful, not the faithful-less. That's another subtle but critically important difference. Forde conflates "by" and "through" because he also conflates justification and sanctification (and salvation. He does not discriminate between faith and faithfulness and therefore does not entertain the effect of the latter. I'm not sure Luther would agree. However, I could be wrong. I did a little search this morning and had great difficulty finding any Lutheran expounding on the distinction between faith and faithfulness. I did find one author citing "The Bondage of the Will" to say,

"Faith is the foundation for works, but what is faith for Luther? There is some level of ambiguity in Luther's understanding of faithfulness: On the one hand, Luther talks about faith as the gift of God who acts upon humans wholly from without. On the other hand, Luther speaks of faith as a concrete personal decision and commitment. How is this tension and ambiguity to be resolved? For Luther, the acknowledgment of God's sovereignty and the belief in God's accessibility can only be found in Christ and his Word."


I searched my collected works of Luther and did find very little by Luther about faith versus faithfulness of the saint. However, there is some. Two of his Protestant works, "Concerning Christian Liberty," and "The Freedom of the Christian," juxtapose the inability of the unregenerate sinner to will (being wholly enslaved) with that of the regenerate saint to be faithful to God by God's faithfulness to the saints. One of the stated benefits of God work in us is the ability to "attain sure judgment and faithful discrimination between works and laws" and the ability to recognize those who teach falsely to the contrary. Luther gave that attribution to the saint. It was an effect of God's faithfulness to the saint but God's faithfulness to the bride or saint results in the saints faithful abilities the dead and enslaved sinner does not possess. It is, however, very apparent that for every one occasion where Luther may have explicitly or implicitly (and some of them are admittedly remote) written about the saint's faithfulness he wrote 99 mentions of God's faithfulness.

That alone might explain why the Reformers had to address the matter of sanctification further and differently. It may not be that Luther held different beliefs so much as he wrote very little on the matter.

The commentator of Luther's "Treatise on Baptism," asserted "the Protestant distinction between justification and sanctification is involved," but he does not elaborate on the distinctions specifically, and neither did Luther. In comparison we might conclude Luther saw distinctions between justification and sanctification where perhaps Forde does not.

In his work, "On the Creed," Luther said, "I cannot relate better than to sanctification, that through the same Holy Ghost, with His office, is declared and depicted, namely, that He makes Holy." So, Luther considered sanctification synonymous with holiness (holiness in the sense of sacred separateness and purity, not the experientialist piety of modernity). Repeatedly in that tome and others Luther constantly attributed sanctification to God but he alluded to the sinner's inability to merit sanctification because he lacked the gospel, thereby implying a saint who possesses the gospel did merit salvation. "Meanwhile, however, while sanctification has begun and is growing daily, we expect that our flesh will be destroyed and buried with its uncleanness, and will come forth gloriously and arise to entire and perfect holiness in a new eternal life." That certainly speaks of sanctification as an ongoing process but leaves out any beneficial temporal effect. In his commentary on 1 Peter Luther wrote of the saint knowing "how to possess himself of his own vessel in sanctification and honor..." and then repeatedly speaks of the saint "conducting himself" accordingly. This, in my view, speaks of a post-conversion synergism that is solely dependent upon the already-existing work of God.

So, I conclude Luther himself did not have sanctification sorted out completely but did hold to an already/not yet classic Reformed view and did expect God's work to have visible effect in the earthly life of the saint. Throughout my examination I founded repeated examples of Luther treating sanctification as synonymous with being holy, sacred, and clean. There were numerous examples coupling justification and sanctification but many of them spoke of distinctions, not their being synonymous or identical. When I found mentions of sanctification in Luther's works there was another hugely skewed ratio. "Sanctified" was used a gazillion more times than "sanctifying." Luther clearly saw sanctification as a process, but he overwhelmingly treated it as an accomplished fact. In his debate with Erasmus he called Erasmus an "ignoramus" when it came to defining sanctification! On that occasion Luther does not himself define the term but speaks instead of the "sanctity" of the God, of the Spirit, and not specifically the work of either in the saint. In that regard sanctity is synonymous with being holy, or sacred, purity.

That would explain both Forde's position and his method.
 
Part 5:

The bullet points with the (g) at the end sound Gnostic. Knowledge does not bring sanctification and since sanctification in Forde's view is synonymous and never separate from or an addition to salvation and justification knowledge saves. That is Gnostic. I suspect Forde simply articulated the matter poorly because if he is orthodox Lutheran then he wholly rejects all Gnostic views. The bullet points with the (w) are points indicating works, and again, I suspect and hope this is simply poorly articulated because otherwise he has two problems: 1) he has contradicted his statements sanctification is by grace alone by faith alone and never by works and never a matter of piety, and 2) Lutherans do not believe in works that way. There are other internal contradictions in Forde's argument, such as the "we" not wanting and confronting sanctification and having knowledge grace directly contradicting sanctification is hidden. If it were truly hidden then we'd have absolutely no knowledge or experience of anything related to sanctification and if that is the case that is going to run into conflict with the purpose of sanctification being separation, divine purpose, and cleansing and his beliefs we know something about it and do not want or like it.

So, in the end, I agree with Forde sanctification being a work of God by grace but not by faith. Justification is by faith. Sanctification is through faith and occurs in the faithful, not the faithful-less. That's another subtle but critically important difference. Forde conflates "by" and "through" because he also conflates justification and sanctification (and salvation. He does not discriminate between faith and faithfulness and therefore does not entertain the effect of the latter. I'm not sure Luther would agree. However, I could be wrong. I did a little search this morning and had great difficulty finding any Lutheran expounding on the distinction between faith and faithfulness. I did find one author citing "The Bondage of the Will" to say,

"Faith is the foundation for works, but what is faith for Luther? There is some level of ambiguity in Luther's understanding of faithfulness: On the one hand, Luther talks about faith as the gift of God who acts upon humans wholly from without. On the other hand, Luther speaks of faith as a concrete personal decision and commitment. How is this tension and ambiguity to be resolved? For Luther, the acknowledgment of God's sovereignty and the belief in God's accessibility can only be found in Christ and his Word."


I searched my collected works of Luther and did find very little by Luther about faith versus faithfulness of the saint. However, there is some. Two of his Protestant works, "Concerning Christian Liberty," and "The Freedom of the Christian," juxtapose the inability of the unregenerate sinner to will (being wholly enslaved) with that of the regenerate saint to be faithful to God by God's faithfulness to the saints. One of the stated benefits of God work in us is the ability to "attain sure judgment and faithful discrimination between works and laws" and the ability to recognize those who teach falsely to the contrary. Luther gave that attribution to the saint. It was an effect of God's faithfulness to the saint but God's faithfulness to the bride or saint results in the saints faithful abilities the dead and enslaved sinner does not possess. It is, however, very apparent that for every one occasion where Luther may have explicitly or implicitly (and some of them are admittedly remote) written about the saint's faithfulness he wrote 99 mentions of God's faithfulness.

That alone might explain why the Reformers had to address the matter of sanctification further and differently. It may not be that Luther held different beliefs so much as he wrote very little on the matter.

The commentator of Luther's "Treatise on Baptism," asserted "the Protestant distinction between justification and sanctification is involved," but he does not elaborate on the distinctions specifically, and neither did Luther. In comparison we might conclude Luther saw distinctions between justification and sanctification where perhaps Forde does not.

In his work, "On the Creed," Luther said, "I cannot relate better than to sanctification, that through the same Holy Ghost, with His office, is declared and depicted, namely, that He makes Holy." So, Luther considered sanctification synonymous with holiness (holiness in the sense of sacred separateness and purity, not the experientialist piety of modernity). Repeatedly in that tome and others Luther constantly attributed sanctification to God but he alluded to the sinner's inability to merit sanctification because he lacked the gospel, thereby implying a saint who possesses the gospel did merit salvation. "Meanwhile, however, while sanctification has begun and is growing daily, we expect that our flesh will be destroyed and buried with its uncleanness, and will come forth gloriously and arise to entire and perfect holiness in a new eternal life." That certainly speaks of sanctification as an ongoing process but leaves out any beneficial temporal effect. In his commentary on 1 Peter Luther wrote of the saint knowing "how to possess himself of his own vessel in sanctification and honor..." and then repeatedly speaks of the saint "conducting himself" accordingly. This, in my view, speaks of a post-conversion synergism that is solely dependent upon the already-existing work of God.

So, I conclude Luther himself did not have sanctification sorted out completely but did hold to an already/not yet classic Reformed view and did expect God's work to have visible effect in the earthly life of the saint. Throughout my examination I founded repeated examples of Luther treating sanctification as synonymous with being holy, sacred, and clean. There were numerous examples coupling justification and sanctification but many of them spoke of distinctions, not their being synonymous or identical. When I found mentions of sanctification in Luther's works there was another hugely skewed ratio. "Sanctified" was used a gazillion more times than "sanctifying." Luther clearly saw sanctification as a process, but he overwhelmingly treated it as an accomplished fact. In his debate with Erasmus he called Erasmus an "ignoramus" when it came to defining sanctification! On that occasion Luther does not himself define the term but speaks instead of the "sanctity" of the God, of the Spirit, and not specifically the work of either in the saint. In that regard sanctity is synonymous with being holy, or sacred, purity.

That would explain both Forde's position and his method.
You have a lot here. Thanks.

I'll take some time to read it.
 
You have a lot here. Thanks.

I'll take some time to read it.
Got started and couldn't stop! I had about a half-page of notes but once I started writing the post got longer.... and longer.... and longer.... 🤪 Tried to break it down into aspects that stand on their own. I'll read the critiques tonight and get to the other authors' views over the weekend.
 
@Carbon,

Have you read the whole book yet? Did you notice every author has his own definition of sanctification?
 
@Carbo,

Have you read the whole book yet? Did you notice every author has his own definition of sanctification?
No, haven't read the whole book yet. I know they all understand it differently, my biggest concern was the Lutheran and the Reformed. But I do think it will be rewarding to read the others as well.
 
No, haven't read the whole book yet. I know they all understand it differently, my biggest concern was the Lutheran and the Reformed. But I do think it will be rewarding to read the others as well.
I definitely agreed with Ferguson's view more than the others, but I found elements in all worth considering. As I posted in my critique of Forde's view, I read scripture to teach sanctification is a cleansing process by which a saved person is made separate (holy) for sacred purpose. That, as a consequence of reading the book, does not preclude and may include more. Appreciate the recommendation.
 
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