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Bible Problem

Wow! Well I imagine there are some TOS violations in there but could be wrong (@Carbon ?). For all your insults about my being amatuerish, you seem to be the one who's letting your emotions run away with you.
You perceive wrong
You perceive wrong
You perceive wrong
Good to know.

I apologize and withdraw my perceptions, which were my answer to your question.
"Somewhat" strong, I agree.
First mistake I ever made. . .whew! Glad that's overwith. :)
But fortunately for me, Jesus does

None. For all the some ~200,000 or so variants (depending on how they're counted) for *all* the manuscripts and manuscript text types (whether Alexandrian, Western, or Byzantine) there is ~98% agreement, and the vast majority of those variants are misspellings (usually involving the 'movable nu' in Greek). And NONE of those textual variants has in any way compromised or corrupted the gospel message of salvation, or adversely affected any major, essential doctrine of Christianity.... But 'thank you' for assuming the worst about me
That is more like it.

Everything else is just window dressing
Good thing I was referring to *our* conversation---yours and mine---and not the Word of God
"Heresy" is usually in reference to the word of God.
 
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Good to know.

I apologize and withdraw my perceptions, which were my answer to your question.
"Somewhat" strong, I agree.
First mistake I ever made. . .whew! Glad that's overwith. :)

That is more like it.

Everything else is just window dressing

"Heresy" is usually in reference to the word of God.
Thank you @Eleanor your kind, well meaning response attests to your good character.
 
Are you saying the "Majority Text" isn't bases on the principle of the majority reading?
It's based on the principle that the believing Church (the body of Christ, not a denomination) is the custodian of the truth; so, the general usage of believing churches, throughout Church history, results in the majority readings, the others having been discarded.
 
@David1701

The problem is the "Majority Text" manuscripts don't always meet the "majority reading" criterion. NT manuscript expert Daniel Wallace has an informative article on this topic:

Wallace, Daniel B. "The Majority-Text Theory: History, Methods and Critique." JOURNAL-EVANGELICAL THEOLOGICAL SOCIETY 37 (1994): 185-185.

Summary of points:

1. The TR/KJV/Majority Text Only movement is based on the presupposition of the doctrine of *providential preservation*: the presumption that God would not allow Scripture to be lost but would preserve Scripture "in every age." Therefore, any reading overwhelmingly attested by the manuscript tradition is more likely to be original than its rival(s)." In other words, the reading supported by a majority of MSS is the original.

2. "This doctrine cannot be applied to the OT. It is demonstrable that the OT text does not meet the criteria of preservation by majority rule—nor, in fact, of preservation at all in some places. A number of readings that only occur in versions or are found only in one or two early Qumran MSS have indisputable claim to authenticity over against the errant majority. Moreover in many places all the extant witnesses are so corrupt that conjectural emendation has to be employed. Significantly, many (but not all) such conjectures have been vindicated by the discovery of the Dead Sea scrolls. Hence because of the necessity of conjectural emendation the doctrine of preservation is inapplicable for the OT.... In light of the empirical and exegetical evidence, traditional text champions and other evangelicals who affirm providential preservation need to reexamine their beliefs, for at present they are guilty of a bibliological double standard founded on an improbable exegesis of the relevant passages."

3. The "Majority Text" type did not become the "majority" until the ninth century; contradicting the presumption that God has preserved Scripture in "every age" as the majority reading. "If the MT view is to be entertained, the Byzantine text should be widely diffused in the earliest Greek MSS, versions and Church fathers. But the opposite situation obtains, as the following considerations make clear. First, among the Greek MSS, what is today the majority did not become a majority until the ninth century. In fact, as far as the extant witnesses reveal, the MT did not exist in the first four centuries."

phpt7etli.jpg


4. Earlier Byzantine manuscripts are more different from each other than later Byzantine manuscripts; which again contradicts the presumption of preservation of the majority reading "in every age." "The entire argument from statistical probability not only fails in the early centuries. When the actual Byzantine MSS are examined—not just counted—some disturbing facts surface:

"Hodges' statistical model which lies at the heart of the Majority Text theory demands that a text type becomes less homogeneous over time as the cumulative effect of scribal errors and emendations are transmitted in subsequent generations of manuscripts This effect is observed among the Alexandrian manuscripts of this study However, the case is reversed for the Byzantine manuscripts, which grow more homogeneous over time, denying Hodges' statistical presupposition In addition, Hodges' argument from stemmatics is damaged by this confirmation of Fee's longheld hypothesis that the later Byzantine witnesses bear a closer resemblance to each other than to the original Byzantine archetype."

"Ralston's and other studies strongly suggest that the HodgesFarstad and Pierpont Robinson texts not only do not represent the original but do not even represent the Byzantine text of the first millennium. Indeed there is evidence that the specific text form found in these printed editions was not in a majority of Greek MSS until the fifteenth century."

5. NON-Alexandrian Translations from various regions around the Mediterranean do not evidence any Byzantine text until the end of the fourth century. "Second, if the Greek MSS do not attest to the MT, what about the versions? The evidence amassed to date is that there are no versions of the Byzantine text type until the Gothic at the end of the fourth century. This needs to be balanced by the fact that the Coptic, Ethiopic, Latin and Syriac versions all antedate the fourth century and come from various regions around the Mediterranean. Neither their texts nor their locales are strictly Egyptian ["corrupt" Alexandrian]. And even if one of these early versions had been based on the Byzantine text, this would only prove that this text existed before the fourth century. It is quite another thing to assume that it was in the majority before the fourth century."

6. "The evidence is similar in the Church fathers." "Though some of the fathers from the first three centuries had isolated Byzantine readings the earliest Church father to use the Byzantine text was the heretic Asterius, a fourth century writer from Antioch and one of Lucian's students."

7. Early church fathers testify that certain "majority text" readings were actually in the minority. "The patristic evidence is also valuable in another way. On several occasions patristic writers do more than quote the text. They also discuss textual variants. Holmes points out that:

"final proof that the manuscripts known today do not accurately represent the state of affairs in earlier centuries comes from patristic references to variants once widely known but found today in only a few or even no witnesses. The "longer ending" of Mark, 16:9-20, today is found in a large majority of Greek manuscripts; yet according to Jerome, it "is met with in only a few copies of the Gospel—almost all the codices of Greece being without this passage." Similarly, at Matthew 5:22 he notes that "most of the ancient copies" do not contain the qualification "without cause" . . . which, however, is found in the great majority today."

Summary: "The combined testimony of the external evidence—the only evidence that the MT defenders consider—is that the Byzantine text apparently did not exist in the first three centuries. The Greek MSS, versions and Church fathers provide a threefold cord not easily broken. To be sure, isolated Byzantine readings have been located—but not the Byzantine text. There is simply no shred of evidence that the Byzantine text-type existed prior to the fourth century."

8. There are hundreds of "splits" in the Byzantine text where there is no clear majority reading.

"Ironically, although MT theorists want objectivity and certainty, even they cannot avoid making decisions on internal grounds, for there are hundreds of splits in the Byzantine text where no clear majority emerges. Aland found 52 variants within the MT in the space of two verses."

In such cases how are MT advocates to decide what is original? It will not do to say that these splits are not exegetically significant. The Byzantine fracture over echomen/echömen in Rom 5:1 is a case in point. If the canons of internal evidence are "demonstrably fallacious," then in several hundred places—many of them significant—this theory is without a solution and without certainty."

"How do MT defenders proceed in such a case? "Where a majority reading does not exist we are obliged to use a minority reading, and defend our choice as best we may." But without any kind of guidelines the effort becomes "wearisome and frustrating." MT proponents' frustration in such cases is especially compounded both because they have rejected the standard canons of internal criticism and because whatever canons they use are, by their own admission, wholly subjective. That they have not developed anything that resembles internal canons is a tacit admission that they have not contemplated their own views beyond the horizon of a fideistic apologetic."
 
@David1701

The problem is the "Majority Text" manuscripts don't always meet the "majority reading" criterion. . . . "Where a majority reading does not exist we are obliged to use a minority reading, and defend our choice as best we may."
Just wanted to express that this entire article is based on the false premise the most extant manuscripts do not follow or agree with one another. This is an attempt to elevate the prominence of the corrupted manuscripts that are contained within the the Minority Text. The Minority Text, also known as the Critical Text and the Alexandrian Text, makes up only 10% of the manuscript evidence; which source was never used but abandoned by scribes and copiers who always rejected them because they were not following or agreeing with most of extant manuscripts.

This Alexandrian Text did not wear out like those of the Majority Text, which makes up 80% of the manuscript tradition. When a scribe or copier would encounter an excessively worn copy they would copy it and then destroy the exemplar, to avoid it falling into misuse. The Minority Text, after being abandoned, fell into disuse for 1500 years, until being recently discovered in the 1980's. With the false manuscripts (much of which has had Gnostic scholars input) it's all about age. Many are misled (but many are not misled, for the money from these translations) into thinking that the older it is the more genuine it must be.

Not attempting to discredit anything personal with Wallace, it is probable that he also has been misled! Being misled, one can still become corrected; but those who are not seeing truth will not find it!
 
@David1701

The problem is the "Majority Text" manuscripts don't always meet the "majority reading" criterion. NT manuscript expert Daniel Wallace has an informative article on this topic:

Wallace, Daniel B. "The Majority-Text Theory: History, Methods and Critique." JOURNAL-EVANGELICAL THEOLOGICAL SOCIETY 37 (1994): 185-185.

Summary of points:

1. The TR/KJV/Majority Text Only movement is based on the presupposition of the doctrine of *providential preservation*: the presumption that God would not allow Scripture to be lost but would preserve Scripture "in every age." Therefore, any reading overwhelmingly attested by the manuscript tradition is more likely to be original than its rival(s)." In other words, the reading supported by a majority of MSS is the original.

2. "This doctrine cannot be applied to the OT. It is demonstrable that the OT text does not meet the criteria of preservation by majority rule—nor, in fact, of preservation at all in some places. A number of readings that only occur in versions or are found only in one or two early Qumran MSS have indisputable claim to authenticity over against the errant majority. Moreover in many places all the extant witnesses are so corrupt that conjectural emendation has to be employed. Significantly, many (but not all) such conjectures have been vindicated by the discovery of the Dead Sea scrolls. Hence because of the necessity of conjectural emendation the doctrine of preservation is inapplicable for the OT.... In light of the empirical and exegetical evidence, traditional text champions and other evangelicals who affirm providential preservation need to reexamine their beliefs, for at present they are guilty of a bibliological double standard founded on an improbable exegesis of the relevant passages."

3. The "Majority Text" type did not become the "majority" until the ninth century; contradicting the presumption that God has preserved Scripture in "every age" as the majority reading. "If the MT view is to be entertained, the Byzantine text should be widely diffused in the earliest Greek MSS, versions and Church fathers. But the opposite situation obtains, as the following considerations make clear. First, among the Greek MSS, what is today the majority did not become a majority until the ninth century. In fact, as far as the extant witnesses reveal, the MT did not exist in the first four centuries."

phpt7etli.jpg


4. Earlier Byzantine manuscripts are more different from each other than later Byzantine manuscripts; which again contradicts the presumption of preservation of the majority reading "in every age." "The entire argument from statistical probability not only fails in the early centuries. When the actual Byzantine MSS are examined—not just counted—some disturbing facts surface:

"Hodges' statistical model which lies at the heart of the Majority Text theory demands that a text type becomes less homogeneous over time as the cumulative effect of scribal errors and emendations are transmitted in subsequent generations of manuscripts This effect is observed among the Alexandrian manuscripts of this study However, the case is reversed for the Byzantine manuscripts, which grow more homogeneous over time, denying Hodges' statistical presupposition In addition, Hodges' argument from stemmatics is damaged by this confirmation of Fee's longheld hypothesis that the later Byzantine witnesses bear a closer resemblance to each other than to the original Byzantine archetype."

"Ralston's and other studies strongly suggest that the HodgesFarstad and Pierpont Robinson texts not only do not represent the original but do not even represent the Byzantine text of the first millennium. Indeed there is evidence that the specific text form found in these printed editions was not in a majority of Greek MSS until the fifteenth century."

5. NON-Alexandrian Translations from various regions around the Mediterranean do not evidence any Byzantine text until the end of the fourth century. "Second, if the Greek MSS do not attest to the MT, what about the versions? The evidence amassed to date is that there are no versions of the Byzantine text type until the Gothic at the end of the fourth century. This needs to be balanced by the fact that the Coptic, Ethiopic, Latin and Syriac versions all antedate the fourth century and come from various regions around the Mediterranean. Neither their texts nor their locales are strictly Egyptian ["corrupt" Alexandrian]. And even if one of these early versions had been based on the Byzantine text, this would only prove that this text existed before the fourth century. It is quite another thing to assume that it was in the majority before the fourth century."

6. "The evidence is similar in the Church fathers." "Though some of the fathers from the first three centuries had isolated Byzantine readings the earliest Church father to use the Byzantine text was the heretic Asterius, a fourth century writer from Antioch and one of Lucian's students."

7. Early church fathers testify that certain "majority text" readings were actually in the minority. "The patristic evidence is also valuable in another way. On several occasions patristic writers do more than quote the text. They also discuss textual variants. Holmes points out that:

"final proof that the manuscripts known today do not accurately represent the state of affairs in earlier centuries comes from patristic references to variants once widely known but found today in only a few or even no witnesses. The "longer ending" of Mark, 16:9-20, today is found in a large majority of Greek manuscripts; yet according to Jerome, it "is met with in only a few copies of the Gospel—almost all the codices of Greece being without this passage." Similarly, at Matthew 5:22 he notes that "most of the ancient copies" do not contain the qualification "without cause" . . . which, however, is found in the great majority today."

Summary: "The combined testimony of the external evidence—the only evidence that the MT defenders consider—is that the Byzantine text apparently did not exist in the first three centuries. The Greek MSS, versions and Church fathers provide a threefold cord not easily broken. To be sure, isolated Byzantine readings have been located—but not the Byzantine text. There is simply no shred of evidence that the Byzantine text-type existed prior to the fourth century."

8. There are hundreds of "splits" in the Byzantine text where there is no clear majority reading.

"Ironically, although MT theorists want objectivity and certainty, even they cannot avoid making decisions on internal grounds, for there are hundreds of splits in the Byzantine text where no clear majority emerges. Aland found 52 variants within the MT in the space of two verses."

In such cases how are MT advocates to decide what is original? It will not do to say that these splits are not exegetically significant. The Byzantine fracture over echomen/echömen in Rom 5:1 is a case in point. If the canons of internal evidence are "demonstrably fallacious," then in several hundred places—many of them significant—this theory is without a solution and without certainty."

"How do MT defenders proceed in such a case? "Where a majority reading does not exist we are obliged to use a minority reading, and defend our choice as best we may." But without any kind of guidelines the effort becomes "wearisome and frustrating." MT proponents' frustration in such cases is especially compounded both because they have rejected the standard canons of internal criticism and because whatever canons they use are, by their own admission, wholly subjective. That they have not developed anything that resembles internal canons is a tacit admission that they have not contemplated their own views beyond the horizon of a fideistic apologetic."
<sigh>

Daniel Wallace is a well-known, and very biased, proponent of the Critical Text (the one that discounts God's providential preservation of the Scriptures, effectively denies verbal inspiration, and was invented and maintained mostly by heretics).

Yes, of course there is a minority of cases where the evidence is split. Everyone knows that. In such cases, other factors must be taken into consideration.

It is a straw man (and a denigrating caricature) to suggest that the TR and/or Majority Text is just about counting readings. Naturally this plays a large part (as it should), but it is not the only criterion.

We're not discussing the OT, but the NT.

Wallace is lying, when he states that the Majority Text did not become the majority, until the 9th C.. It's a question of the general usage of the Church, throughout the ages; and it has always used a text-type like the Majority Text, until the early 20th C.. Furthermore, there was what is called "The Great Transliteration", in the 9th and 10th centuries, when very large numbers of ancient, uncial Greek manuscripts were copied to cursives. In other words, the Majority Text manuscripts are direct copies of much older manuscripts, taking the majority back centuries. Wallace knows this... I wouldn't trust him with a Sunday School class, no matter how much he knows.
 
<sigh>

Daniel Wallace is a well-known, and very biased, proponent of the Critical Text (the one that discounts God's providential preservation of the Scriptures, effectively denies verbal inspiration, and was invented and maintained mostly by heretics).

Yes, of course there is a minority of cases where the evidence is split. Everyone knows that. In such cases, other factors must be taken into consideration.

It is a straw man (and a denigrating caricature) to suggest that the TR and/or Majority Text is just about counting readings. Naturally this plays a large part (as it should), but it is not the only criterion.

We're not discussing the OT, but the NT.

Wallace is lying, when he states that the Majority Text did not become the majority, until the 9th C.. It's a question of the general usage of the Church, throughout the ages; and it has always used a text-type like the Majority Text, until the early 20th C.. Furthermore, there was what is called "The Great Transliteration", in the 9th and 10th centuries, when very large numbers of ancient, uncial Greek manuscripts were copied to cursives. In other words, the Majority Text manuscripts are direct copies of much older manuscripts, taking the majority back centuries. Wallace knows this... I wouldn't trust him with a Sunday School class, no matter how much he knows.
I think we need to be careful of accusing someone of outright lying. Wallace is a believer too and has a high view of Scripture. I'm sure he would support the majority reading approach if it was tenable, but he does not think it is.

Also, Wallace is careful to distinguish between Byzantine readings vs the Byzantine Text Type.

"To be sure, isolated Byzantine readings have been located—but not the Byzantine text. There is simply no shred of evidence that the Byzantine text-type existed prior to the fourth century." And the Byzantine text-type didn't become the *majority* text-type reflected in the *majority* of manuscripts until the ninth century.

"The difference between a reading and a text type is the difference between a particular variant and a pattern of variation For example, although both the NIV and KJV have identical wording in John 1 1, the pattern of variation of the NIV found over a whole paragraph will differ from the KJV No one would argue that a handwritten copy of John 1 1 from c AD 1775 was taken from the NIV—even though its wording would be identical with the wording of the NIV for that verse Yet this is the same kind of argument that MT defenders use for the primltiveness of the Byzantine text Simply because isolated Byzantine readings are found before the fourth century is no argument that the Byzantine text existed before the fourth century They have confused reading with text."---Wallace

*My own thoughts on all this is simply that no one---none of us, myself included---can claim to have an inerrant copy of the Bible in their hands (*inerrancy only applies to the original autographs). Perhaps that is God's Providence right there to direct us to focus more on the fact that whether it's the Byzantine, Western, or so-called "corrupt" Alexandrian manuscripts that they are still all in ~98% agreement, the vast majority of variants are just simple misspellings, and above all of greatest importance is that none of these variants in any of these manuscripts corrupts or compromises the gospel message of salvation or adversely affects any major essential doctrine of Christianity.
 
This Alexandrian Text did not wear out like those of the Majority Text, which makes up 80% of the manuscript tradition
But do you see how this is actually an assumption, speculation to explain the *absence of evidence*. The fact remains that for whatever reason there seems to be no trace of Byzantine type readings before the fourth century.
Just wanted to express that this entire article is based on the false premise the most extant manuscripts do not follow or agree with one another. This is an attempt to elevate the prominence of the corrupted manuscripts that are contained within the the Minority Text
I don't think most evangelical Bible scholars have any hidden, nefarious agenda like this but are just trying to understand as best they can like all of us are trying to do.

There are still hundreds of splits in the Byzantine manuscripts where there is no clear majority. The early Byzantine MSS are more different than the later ones. I find that problematic. And the "corrupt" Alexandrian are still in 98% agreement with the Byzantine and the vast majority of variants are misspellings. No major Christian doctrine is affected.
 
But do you see how this is actually an assumption, speculation to explain the *absence of evidence*. The fact remains that for whatever reason there seems to be no trace of Byzantine type readings before the fourth century.
There were many manuscripts even older than the recently discovered Alexandrian codices, but they too wore out from coping usage. The fact that this Critical Text did not wear our (regardless of what is was written on) is evidence of it not being used; this also answers to why the Majority, Received and Byzantine Texts are of recent dating 5th century and later. It's fallacy (not directed to you because you're just going what has been said) to consider these codices do not mostly agree with one another, which is what the Church has been using for over 500 years. No other source will ever reach the time and quality of this source

There are many who claim the Critical Text as the more genuine than what God has used for all this time; and it's about time to wrap up the Church age. One cannot think God gave us the wrong Word all this time. There are only two primary sources, and one is of Satan, which his attack on the Word began with "Yes hath God said" (Gen 3:1), and has continued his attack with these errant manuscripts. He is appealing to antiquity and fooling many to think they are the Word of God. He mixes truth with error in them, but most Christians will not notice because most do not read much of the Word!
I don't think most evangelical Bible scholars have any hidden, nefarious agenda like this but are just trying to understand as best they can like all of us are trying to do.
I agree, but many are excepting the Critical Text mainly because of their age. It they had an acceptable text they would have encountered the same transmission difficulties of worn out copies as the Traditional Text.
 
“As the Emperor Constantine embraced Christianity, it became necessary for him to choose which Bible he would sanction. He preferred the one edited by Eusebius and written by Origen, the outstanding intellectual figure that had combined Christianity with Gnosticism in his philosophy, even as Constantine was himself the political genius that was seeking to unite Christianity with pagan Rome.” –Which Bible, David Otis Fuller, D.D., page 195, first paragraph

This is why the Catholic religion embraces so many anti-Christian doctrines, like the doctrine of “Immaculate Conception”: “the conception of the Virgin Mary in which as decreed in Roman Catholic dogma her soul was preserved free from original sin by divine grace.” –Merriam/Webster Dictionary
 
There were many manuscripts even older than the recently discovered Alexandrian codices, but they too wore out from coping usage. The fact that this Critical Text did not wear our (regardless of what is was written on) is evidence of it not being used
But that also is an assumption. One could just as easily argue that they were better taken care of and handled more carefully for their status as sacred Scripture. The assumption is also proven false by the fact that the Alexandrian text type is quoted more often by the early church fathers and also reflected in the early Latin, Ethiopic, Coptic, and Syriac translations.
 
But that also is an assumption. One could just as easily argue that they were better taken care of and handled more carefully
The materials used for copying is the same for all, so even with great care they still wear out if used enough.
 
The materials used for copying is the same for all, so even with great care they still wear out if used enough.
But the materials weren't the same. The Alexandrian Greek manuscripts were predominantly on plant-based papyrus (which rots in humid climates), while the Byzantine Greek manuscripts were predominantly on animal-based parchment (which is more durable). That fact alone gives unfair weighting to Byzantine manuscripts when determining the "majority."

It's just not a good argument. "Lack of use" in a predominantly illiterate society doesn't tell us anything. And how do we quantify that? What constitutes "lack of use"? It's a circular argument.

It's also a selective argument: "The reason the Byzantine was the majority after the ninth century was because of God's providential preservation," while "The reason the Alexandrian was the majority from the 2nd to 8th centuries was not because of God's providential preservation, but because they weren't of God and therefore weren't used"??? That hardly seems like a fair, unbiased application of the doctrine of *providential preservation.*

Plus, we know why the Alexandrian Greek papyrus manuscripts were preserved: climate. The #1 reason was due to the dry, arid climate of Egypt. Papyrus rots everywhere else due to humidity--whether used or not (!). In humid climates, papyrus rots even when it's not used (!), unlike in Egypt. By contrast, the animal-based parchment of Byzantine manuscripts is far more durable. Again, that fact alone gives unfair weighting when it comes to what the "majority" was.

Perhaps one could argue that the Byzantine was in use in humid regions at the same time and that's why it wasn't preserved. But the facts simply don't back this up, because again the early church fathers (who weren't restricted to Egypt) quote the Alexandrian text type the vast majority of the time, and the various earliest Latin, Syriac, Ethiopic, and Copitc translations are strictly speaking not Egyptian/Alexandrian but from different Mediterranean regions, and yet they still predominantly reflect the Alexandrian text type.

That is a strong argument that that was the text type in use even in climate-poor preservation regions for which we don't have Greek manuscripts, and that the reason we don't have the Byzantine is that it simply didn't exist yet.
 
But the materials weren't the same. The Alexandrian Greek manuscripts were predominantly on plant-based papyrus (which rots in humid climates), while the Byzantine Greek manuscripts were predominantly on animal-based parchment (which is more durable). That fact alone gives unfair weighting to Byzantine manuscripts when determining the "majority."

It's just not a good argument. "Lack of use" in a predominantly illiterate society doesn't tell us anything. And how do we quantify that? What constitutes "lack of use"? It's a circular argument.

It's also a selective argument: "The reason the Byzantine was the majority after the ninth century was because of God's providential preservation," while "The reason the Alexandrian was the majority from the 2nd to 8th centuries was not because of God's providential preservation, but because they weren't of God and therefore weren't used"??? That hardly seems like a fair, unbiased application of the doctrine of *providential preservation.*

Plus, we know why the Alexandrian Greek papyrus manuscripts were preserved: climate. The #1 reason was due to the dry, arid climate of Egypt. Papyrus rots everywhere else due to humidity--whether used or not (!). In humid climates, papyrus rots even when it's not used (!), unlike in Egypt. By contrast, the animal-based parchment of Byzantine manuscripts is far more durable. Again, that fact alone gives unfair weighting when it comes to what the "majority" was.

Perhaps one could argue that the Byzantine was in use in humid regions at the same time and that's why it wasn't preserved. But the facts simply don't back this up, because again the early church fathers (who weren't restricted to Egypt) quote the Alexandrian text type the vast majority of the time, and the various earliest Latin, Syriac, Ethiopic, and Copitc translations are strictly speaking not Egyptian/Alexandrian but from different Mediterranean regions, and yet they still predominantly reflect the Alexandrian text type.

That is a strong argument that that was the text type in use even in climate-poor preservation regions for which we don't have Greek manuscripts, and that the reason we don't have the Byzantine is that it simply didn't exist yet.
Age alone cannot prove a manuscript correct. Aleph (Sinaiticus) and B (Vaticanus) owe their preservation to the fact that they were also wrote on vellum (probably only these two on vellum), and not parchments of papyrus, which does not hold up well against humidity and water. It is these two corrupt witnesses that are the oldest (3rd century), and the few others (like the codex Alexandrinus, which is worse than the other two) in this Critical Text closely follows behind.

It greatly surprises me to see that many are ignorant of such a grave mistake and corruption!
 
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Age alone cannot prove a manuscript correct.
Agreed, but it is certainly important, especially when the Byzantine lacks attestation.
Aleph (Sinaiticus) and B (Vaticanus) owe their preservation to the fact that they were also wrote on vellum (probably only these two on vellum),
True
and not parchments of papyrus, which does not hold up well against humidity and water
Parchment and papyrus are two different things. Vellum is similar to parchment (both animal skin/hide based).
It is these two corrupt witnesses that are the oldest (3rd century), and the few others (like the codex Alexandrinus, which is worse than the other two) in this Critical Text closely follows behind.
But they aren't the oldest. They are among the oldest most complete manuscripts we have (i.e., have most of the NT, OT), but they certainly aren't the oldest manuscripts we have (e.g., the 100 or so Greek papyrii are older).
It greatly surprises me to see that many are ignorant of such a grave mistake and corruption!
But again, this is also based on the assumption of providential preservation that "in every age" the majority reading is most likely to be the original (if one assumes a priori that God would make sure it tuned out that way). But the fact that from the 2nd-8th century the Alexandrian text type was the majority contradicts the fundamental assumption on which the whole TR/KJV/Majority Text Only movement is based/grounded in.

1. Do you deny that we have little to no evidence of Byzantine text type prior to the fourth century?

2. Do you deny that the second and third century early church fathers predominantly quoted the Alexandrian text type?

3. Do you deny that the early/earliest Latin, Syriac, Ethiopic, and Coptic translations reflect the Alexandrian text type?

4. Do you deny that the Byzantine text type did not become the "majority" until the ninth century?

5. Do you deny that older Byzantine manuscripts are more heterogeneous while later Byzantine manuscripts are more homogeneous? That is, do you deny that the Byzantine text type tradition shows a historical tendency over time to harmonize difficult and divergent variants (found in the older Byzantine manuscripts) such that the later Byzantine manuscripts are in closer agreement with each other than the older Byzantine manuscripts are?
 
Agreed, but it is certainly important, especially when the Byzantine lacks attestation.

True

Parchment and papyrus are two different things. Vellum is similar to parchment (both animal skin/hide based).

But they aren't the oldest. They are among the oldest most complete manuscripts we have (i.e., have most of the NT, OT), but they certainly aren't the oldest manuscripts we have (e.g., the 100 or so Greek papyrii are older).

But again, this is also based on the assumption of providential preservation that "in every age" the majority reading is most likely to be the original (if one assumes a priori that God would make sure it tuned out that way). But the fact that from the 2nd-8th century the Alexandrian text type was the majority contradicts the fundamental assumption on which the whole TR/KJV/Majority Text Only movement is based/grounded in.

1. Do you deny that we have little to no evidence of Byzantine text type prior to the fourth century?

2. Do you deny that the second and third century early church fathers predominantly quoted the Alexandrian text type?

3. Do you deny that the early/earliest Latin, Syriac, Ethiopic, and Coptic translations reflect the Alexandrian text type?

4. Do you deny that the Byzantine text type did not become the "majority" until the ninth century?

5. Do you deny that older Byzantine manuscripts are more heterogeneous while later Byzantine manuscripts are more homogeneous? That is, do you deny that the Byzantine text type tradition shows a historical tendency over time to harmonize difficult and divergent variants (found in the older Byzantine manuscripts) such that the later Byzantine manuscripts are in closer agreement with each other than the older Byzantine manuscripts are?
Looks like we disagree quite a bit.
 
2. Do you deny that the second and third century early church fathers predominantly quoted the Alexandrian text type?
I think I misquoted that the Critical text (Alexandrian Text types) was 3rd century, but they are the 4th. Plus nobody ever used this source for manuscript copying. They were always rejected by the scribes copiers, and is the primary reason for their preservation.
 
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