Are you saved?

[donadams]

Are you saved?
How can you say you are saved in light of scripture?

Matt 24:13 he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mk 16:16 he who believes and is baptized shall be saved.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

Colossians 2:5
For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

Jn 15:1-5 abide in Christ

John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

Galatians 5:5
For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"

1 Thessalonians 3:5
For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain.

1 Timothy 2:15
Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Peter 2: "It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"

Jude: "Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning

1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway

Heb 1:14 shall be heirs of salvation

Romans 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
(Must remain obedient)

(He who endured to the end) one who dies in a state of grace united to Jesus Christ by faith and baptism!
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 1 pet 3:21
Matt 24:13





Verses that oppose “faith alone”!

Mk 16:16 faith and baptism

1 cor 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

1 cor 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Phil 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

2 Peter 1:5-11 : "Make every effort to supplement your faith"

Deut 6:4 love of God
Matt 19:17 commandments
Matt 16:25 lose you’re life / rev 12:11
Matt 28:19 faith & baptism
Matt 24:13 endure
Mk 16:16 faith & baptism
Jn 3:5 water & the spirit
Jn 15:4 abide in Christ
acts 2:38-39 repentance & baptism
acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
acts 22:16 name of the Lord & baptism
rom 10:10 faith & confession
1 cor 13:2 faith & charity
1 cor 13:13 faith, hope, & charity
1 cor 16:22 love of Jesus Christ
Phil 1:29 faith and suffering rom 8:17 2 Timothy 2:12
1 thes 1:3 faith, love, patience / 2 thes 1:4 / 1 Tim 6:11 /
James 2:24 faith & works
Heb 6:12 faith & patience / rev 13:10
Rev 2:19 works, charity, service, faith, patience
Rev 12:17 testimony of Jesus & commandments
Rev 14:12 commandments & patience

Rev 12:11 over came by the blood of the Lamb not by “faith alone”!

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

So salvation by “faith alone” is completely false and impossible if baptism is rejected!



Christians are called to be of one mind, one spirit, & one heart!

Philippians 1:27
Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

 

[Ritajanice]

I don’t need to produce a ton of scripture to know in my heart that I have been birthed in the Spirit.

Amplified Bible
The Spirit Himself testifies and confirms together with our spirit [assuring us] that we [believers] are children of God.

John 3:8​

​

New International Version​

​

​

8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”[a]
Read full chapter

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◄ John 3:3 ►

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Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, `You must be born again.

You must be birthed in the Spirit...supernatural act ,that only God can do..you cannot birth “ yourself” in the Spirit..

Being Born Again is a MIRACLE ACT from God and only God.

 

[donadams]

I don’t need to produce a ton of scripture to know in my heart that I have been birthed in the Spirit.

Amplified Bible
The Spirit Himself testifies and confirms together with our spirit [assuring us] that we [believers] are children of God.

John 3:8​

​

New International Version​

​

​

8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”[a]
Read full chapter

​

◄ John 3:3 ►

​

Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, `You must be born again.

You must be birthed in the Spirit...supernatural act ,that only God can do..you cannot birth “ yourself” in the Spirit..

Being Born Again is a MIRACLE ACT from God and only God.

I don’t fund spiritual anarchy in scripture?

Jesus and His apostolic church said a few other things too!

Jn 3:5 Mk 16:16 Matt 28:19 acts 2:38-39 acts 22-16
1 cor 12:12 gal 3:27 1 pet 3:20-21

They could say they are on the ark with Noah but when the rains came they drowned!

God seals us in the ark of salvation by faith and baptism

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!

Thanks

 

[Ritajanice]

John 3

New International Version

​

Jesus Teaches Nicodemus​

3 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”
3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.[a]”
4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[b] gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You[c] must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”[d]

 

[donadams]

You don't understand or believe the Gospel, nor do you understand what Sola Fide means.

Furthermore your long posts of Scripture show yet again you do not know what they mean, and that you are thoroughly hoodwinked and confused.

Go ahead and teach away!

 

[donadams]

John 3​

​

New International Version​

​

​

Jesus Teaches Nicodemus​

3 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”
3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.[a]”
4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[b] gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You[c] must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”[d]

You forgot verse 22?

Jesus said you “cannot enter” without being born again:

And scripture you cannot be “born again” on your own:

Eph 2:8 by grace and not your doing.

2 pet 1:11 must be ministered unto you,

Vs 22 they went to the river (water) and baptized

They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Jesus as your lord and savior”
Or the sinners prayer
Or any other fundamentalist tradition not found in scripture

Thanks

 

[EarlyActs]

Are you saved?
How can you say you are saved in light of scripture?

Matt 24:13 he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mk 16:16 he who believes and is baptized shall be saved.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

Colossians 2:5
For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

Jn 15:1-5 abide in Christ

John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

Galatians 5:5
For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"

1 Thessalonians 3:5
For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain.

1 Timothy 2:15
Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Peter 2: "It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"

Jude: "Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning

1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway

Heb 1:14 shall be heirs of salvation

Romans 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
(Must remain obedient)

(He who endured to the end) one who dies in a state of grace united to Jesus Christ by faith and baptism!
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 1 pet 3:21
Matt 24:13





Verses that oppose “faith alone”!

Mk 16:16 faith and baptism

1 cor 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

1 cor 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Phil 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

2 Peter 1:5-11 : "Make every effort to supplement your faith"

Deut 6:4 love of God
Matt 19:17 commandments
Matt 16:25 lose you’re life / rev 12:11
Matt 28:19 faith & baptism
Matt 24:13 endure
Mk 16:16 faith & baptism
Jn 3:5 water & the spirit
Jn 15:4 abide in Christ
acts 2:38-39 repentance & baptism
acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
acts 22:16 name of the Lord & baptism
rom 10:10 faith & confession
1 cor 13:2 faith & charity
1 cor 13:13 faith, hope, & charity
1 cor 16:22 love of Jesus Christ
Phil 1:29 faith and suffering rom 8:17 2 Timothy 2:12
1 thes 1:3 faith, love, patience / 2 thes 1:4 / 1 Tim 6:11 /
James 2:24 faith & works
Heb 6:12 faith & patience / rev 13:10
Rev 2:19 works, charity, service, faith, patience
Rev 12:17 testimony of Jesus & commandments
Rev 14:12 commandments & patience

Rev 12:11 over came by the blood of the Lamb not by “faith alone”!

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

So salvation by “faith alone” is completely false and impossible if baptism is rejected!



Christians are called to be of one mind, one spirit, & one heart!

Philippians 1:27
Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

TMI. Too much information. Your point is that you want to see baptism required.

The Gospel was the act of Christ for us. That act is what saves us: "By his experience/doing, My Righteous One will justify many."

There are things to do in light of that, in response to that. Even John the Baptist framed things that way; he said the kingdom is near; repent (since the reign of Christ is near, you should repent and be washed.). So even that is a realization that it is a response to what God has done.

 

[donadams]

TMI. Too much information. Your point is that you want to see baptism required.

The Gospel was the act of Christ for us. That act is what saves us: "By his experience/doing, My Righteous One will justify many."

There are things to do in light of that, in response to that. Even John the Baptist framed things that way; he said the kingdom is near; repent (since the reign of Christ is near, you should repent and be washed.). So even that is a realization that it is a response to what God has done.

Christ, scripture, the gospel, and the church require baptismal regeneration
Mk 16:16
Jn 3:5 & 3:22 & 4:1
Acts 2:38-39
Ez 37:25-27
Acts 22:16
1 cor 13:12
Gal 3:27
1 pet 3:20-21

It is God’s work

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!


Thanks

 

[EarlyActs]

Christ, scripture, the gospel, and the church require baptismal regeneration
Mk 16:16
Jn 3:5 & 3:22 & 4:1
Acts 2:38-39
Ez 37:25-27
Acts 22:16
1 cor 13:12
Gal 3:27
1 pet 3:20-21

It is God’s work

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!


Thanks

Do you understand that the 'experience' or accomplishment of Messiah in Is 53 is historic? There is no way we help or contribute to it. The Judge of the universe stepped down and took our place. What could baptism possibly add? What can anything possibly add? So do it to honor Christ, but not on the same level as what Christ did.

The expression 'be born again' is very poorly used. It is essentially a rebuttal to Nic for thinking human descent amounted to something to count on. The Greek term 'anothen' is best trans as 'from above, from the origin/top.' It was part of Jesus way of identifying the mistake of Judaism.

 

[donadams]

Do you understand that the 'experience' or accomplishment of Messiah in Is 53 is historic? There is no way we help or contribute to it. The Judge of the universe stepped down and took our place. What could baptism possibly add? What can anything possibly add? So do it to honor Christ, but not on the same level as what Christ did.

The expression 'be born again' is very poorly used. It is essentially a rebuttal to Nic for thinking human descent amounted to something to count on. The Greek term 'anothen' is best trans as 'from above, from the origin/top.' It was part of Jesus way of identifying the mistake of Judaism.

It is God who baptizes
It is the initiation into the new covenant of grace, and the means of grace. The only way to be a new creation in Christ! Thanks

 

[EarlyActs]

It is God who baptizes
It is the initiation into the new covenant of grace, and the means of grace. The only way to be a new creation in Christ! Thanks

Did you know that the grammar of that 2 Cor 5:17 is actually 'if anyone is in Christ the new creation, the old (covenant) is gone.'? He was referring specifically to counter the Judaizers who harrass him, before general use. The new creation is Christ. That's why we need to be "in" him.

There is no reference nearby to baptism, nor in the last supper narratives, nor in Heb 8-10. So I have no idea what you are thinking about. I don't know of any other significant references to the new covenant.

"I will make Him to be a covenant for the nations." --Isaiah.

 

[TB2]

Did you know that the grammar of that 2 Cor 5:17 is actually 'if anyone is in Christ the new creation, the old (covenant) is gone.'? He was referring specifically to counter the Judaizers who harrass him, before general use. The new creation is Christ. That's why we need to be "in" him.

I'm not sure about that. The Greek word is "old things"

 

[EarlyActs]

I'm not sure about that. The Greek word is "old things"

See chs 3-5 on what was "old." NT letters generally are about detangling from the Judaizers.

On the line itself: ...tis en Christo kaina ktisis. (the comma is supplied). I have yet to find Greek commentary confirmation that there was a shift to the individual believer. He had just been contrasting Christ as known in general news vs what he now knows. He would have no reason to shift to the individual believer. The next 'en Christo' is the ultimate event, in the next verse. And he stays on that, v21.

All the best,

 

[TB2]

See chs 3-5 on what was "old." NT letters generally are about detangling from the Judaizers.

But the church at Corinth was predominantly Gentile

 

[donadams]

Did you know that the grammar of that 2 Cor 5:17 is actually 'if anyone is in Christ the new creation, the old (covenant) is gone.'? He was referring specifically to counter the Judaizers who harrass him, before general use. The new creation is Christ. That's why we need to be "in" him.

There is no reference nearby to baptism, nor in the last supper narratives, nor in Heb 8-10. So I have no idea what you are thinking about. I don't know of any other significant references to the new covenant.

"I will make Him to be a covenant for the nations." --Isaiah.

Baptism is the initiation into the new covenant
Without baptism you cannot be in the new covenant or a new creation

Thanks

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Are you saved?

Yes.

How can you say you are saved in light of scripture?

Rom 8:16 handles it nicely.

Christians are called to be of one mind, one spirit, & one heart!

And yet your "Spirit led college of Cardinals" couldn't even elect a Catholic to be their "Pope thing", and your religious system is fractured 9 ways to Sunday. Very impressive!!