"Already, but not yet" —Some thoughts and speculations on Heaven (John 14:2-6)

[makesends]

Most of you have heard my speculation —something that to me is not a completed thought, but that I am pretty sure has merit— that the New Jerusalem of Rev 21 is not just "dressed/adorned as a bride" but in fact is adorned as the bride that she is—the Bride of Christ.

I memorized this passage when I was just a small child. It became kind of rote, to me, and easily glossed over to mean only a promise, easily used in Gospel presentations and discussions, and since then, I see it working into my speculation nicely, with verse 6's outrageous play on words. Today a couple of things about it flicked a neuron:

John 14:2-6​

Authorized (King James) Version​

2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.​

​

5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.​

It is interesting that Christ here says, first, "many mansions", (plural). The Greek uses the plural. Then he says, "I go and prepare a place for you", (singular). The Greek there uses a different word, denoting a slightly different meaning. Strongs says, concerning the first, "monai: Lodging, dwelling-place, room, abode, mansion. From meno; a staying, i.e. a residence". For the second, "topon: Apparently a primary word; a spot, i.e. Location; figuratively, condition, opportunity; specially, a scabbard."

The sense I get from the Greek is that the place that Christ has gone to prepare is a specific place, purposely intended to be filled, as a scabbard is the place intended for the sword. "...my father's house", I believe to be that spot in which the many dwellings are, in an, "already but not yet", kind of use. It has been many years since I considered the "Father's house" to be a mansion full of millions of generic rooms in which people are put as they arrive. Rather, to me, this kind of affirms the notion that we ARE that place, called The Bride.

Rev 21 says, (3) 'And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them." ' To me, this is a delicious riddle. I think WE are his father's house, in which his father dwells, and we are each those many dwelling places in it —it is US that he has gone to prepare. Sanctification. Maturing, growing in knowledge of him.

In John 14:2-6 there are several dynamics going on. One of them is that, as language goes, Jesus has not changed the subject in answering Thomas (vs 5) with verse 6. In the same way that when people ask the wrong question, he answers their questions with something they had not considered, so he answers Thomas, here. He already told them that they know the way, and they know where he is going. Indeed they did know him, and they knew the Father as well. Yet he lays information on them that they hadn't yet considered in those terms, "I am the way, the truth and the life." You might say that they knew this, but it hadn't clicked. Then he says, relating back to verse 2, "No man cometh to the Father but by me", which is a saying full rich in meaning and implications.

I really am looking forward to that 'smack-my-forehead-with-the-palm-of-my-hand' moment of seeing him as he is. "OH! Well, of course! It was right there in front of me the whole time!" We are being built for him.

 

[Eleanor]

Most of you have heard my speculation —something that to me is not a completed thought, but that I am pretty sure has merit— that the New Jerusalem of Rev 21 is not just "dressed/adorned as a bride" but in fact is adorned as the bride that she is—the Bride of Christ.

Right. . .that's what I get from Eph 5:31-32.

John 14:2-6
Authorized (King James) Version
I memorized this passage when I was just a small child. It became kind of rote, to me, and easily glossed over to mean only a promise, easily used in Gospel presentations and discussions, and since then, I see it working into my speculation nicely. Today a couple of things about it flicked a neuron:

2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.​

​

5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.​

It is interesting that Christ here says, first, "many mansions", (plural). The Greek uses the plural. Then he says, "I go and prepare a place for you", (singular). The Greek there uses a different word, denoting a slightly different meaning. Strongs says, concerning the first, "monai: Lodging, dwelling-place, room, abode, mansion. From meno; a staying, i.e. a residence". For the second, "topon: Apparently a primary word; a spot, i.e. Location; figuratively, condition, opportunity; specially, a scabbard."

The sense I get from the Greek is that the place that Christ has gone to prepare is a specific place, purposely intended to be filled, as a scabbard is the place intended for the sword. "...my father's house", I believe to be that spot in which the many dwellings are, in an, "already but not yet", kind of use. It has been many years since I considered the "Father's house" to be a mansion full of millions of generic rooms in which people are put as they arrive. Rather, to me, this kind of affirms the notion that we ARE that place, called The Bride.

Rev 21 says, (3) 'And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them." ' To me, this is a delicious riddle. I think WE are his father's house, in which his father dwells, and we are each those many dwelling places in it —it is US that he has gone to prepare. Sanctification. Maturing, growing in knowledge of him.

In John 14:2-6 there are several dynamics going on. One of them is that, as language goes, Jesus has not changed the subject in answering Thomas (vs 5) with verse 6. In the same way that when people ask the wrong question, he answers their questions with something they had not considered, so he answers Thomas, here. He already told them that they know the way, and they know where he is going. Indeed they did know him, and they knew the Father as well. Yet he lays information on them that they hadn't yet considered in those terms, "I am the way, the truth and the life." You might say that they knew this, but it hadn't clicked. Then he says, relating back to verse 2, "No man cometh to the Father but by me", which is a saying full rich in meaning and implications.

I really am looking forward to that 'smack-my-forehead-with-the-palm-of-my-hand' moment of seeing him as he is. "OH! Well, of course! It was right there in front of me the whole time!"

 

[CrowCross]

Most of you have heard my speculation —something that to me is not a completed thought, but that I am pretty sure has merit— that the New Jerusalem of Rev 21 is not just "dressed/adorned as a bride" but in fact is adorned as the bride that she is—the Bride of Christ.

I still consider it as speculation. I don't think the Bride of Christ is represented in these terms....Rev 21:12...a great and high wall with twelve gates inscribed with the names of the twelve tribes of Israel, and twelve angels at the gates.......The description continues.

If the City of New Jerusalem is the bride of Christ...what do the walls represent? What do the gates represent? Whay the inscriptions? Why are the angels hanging around the gates? You see my problem with your assumption?...you need to explain why the bride is described as a city.

 

[makesends]

I still consider it as speculation. I don't think the Bride of Christ is represented in these terms....Rev 21:12...a great and high wall with twelve gates inscribed with the names of the twelve tribes of Israel, and twelve angels at the gates.......The description continues.

If the City of New Jerusalem is the bride of Christ...what do the walls represent? What do the gates represent? Whay the inscriptions? Why are the angels hanging around the gates? You see my problem with your assumption?...you need to explain why the bride is described as a city.

I can't say, nor can I say who the attendants/ "friends of", in Song of Solomon are. My inclination is to say that these are the real thing, and what we consider on this temporal plane as walls and gates and pearls and gold and trees and rivers are small representations of the real thing.

I happily admit it is speculation, but I think that there is something to it. When as radical a change in our mode of reality as time passage vs. timelessness (I speak as an ignorant human) is, I have to think everything else there is beyond our ken, too. We have hints and veiled references, but I don't think it makes sense to consider them to be what we now think of as concrete. This is a vapor compared to the solid reality to come.

I didn't do the op to speculate on whether the NJ was or was not the Bride, exactly, but to note how John 14:2-6 touches on the nature of our Father's House, and the direct-purposed way Jesus deals with the subject. This is no random pie-in-the-sky, nor a distant pretty city on the horizon. But the more I read scripture, the more I see all sorts of 'coincidences' concerning God's Dwelling Place. Take a look, for instance, at the covenant he makes with Israel, which is repeated throughout scripture culminating with Rev 21: “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God."

Look at the outlandish language we find ourselves calling symbolic or figurative and such: We are clothed in his righteousness. What if that is literal, and our clothes are weak representations of the real thing? Is that crazy, or just beyond what we know how to mentally arrange ourselves? What does it mean to be one with Christ? What is marriage only a picture of?

The fact that the idea is enthralling doesn't prove that it is right, but it doesn't prove it wrong, either. But it is enthralling!

 

[CrowCross]

I can't say, nor can I say who the attendants/ "friends of", in Song of Solomon are. My inclination is to say that these are the real thing, and what we consider on this temporal plane as walls and gates and pearls and gold and trees and rivers are small representations of the real thing.

I happily admit it is speculation, but I think that there is something to it. When as radical a change in our mode of reality as time passage vs. timelessness (I speak as an ignorant human) is, I have to think everything else there is beyond our ken, too. We have hints and veiled references, but I don't think it makes sense to consider them to be what we now think of as concrete. This is a vapor compared to the solid reality to come.

I didn't do the op to speculate on whether the NJ was or was not the Bride, exactly, but to note how John 14:2-6 touches on the nature of our Father's House, and the direct-purposed way Jesus deals with the subject. This is no random pie-in-the-sky, nor a distant pretty city on the horizon. But the more I read scripture, the more I see all sorts of 'coincidences' concerning God's Dwelling Place. Take a look, for instance, at the covenant he makes with Israel, which is repeated throughout scripture culminating with Rev 21: “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God."

Look at the outlandish language we find ourselves calling symbolic or figurative and such: We are clothed in his righteousness. What if that is literal, and our clothes are weak representations of the real thing? Is that crazy, or just beyond what we know how to mentally arrange ourselves? What does it mean to be one with Christ? What is marriage only a picture of?

The fact that the idea is enthralling doesn't prove that it is right, but it doesn't prove it wrong, either. But it is enthralling!

Then continue speculating. I hope you find your answer.

 

[makesends]

Then continue speculating. I hope you find your answer.

I will, but not in this life.