Age Neutral Design

[Carbon]

For many years, I believed the earth was young. You know, young like 6-10 thousand years. I remember often trying to understand and fit dinosaurs and people together over the past 10,000 years. It never really made sense. I also bought some books; the "Genesis flood" and "the world that perished" to name a couple. To see if that would help me out. It did a little, well, kinda.
But it was always a weak and shaky ground trying to prove a young earth. Especially since hearing if anyone tries to prove the earth is more than 10,000 years old, they are secular scientists and are trying to prove secular evolution. I eventually found that to be nonsense. I found there were Christians who agreed with an old earth.

Then, many years later, probably about 14 (give or take a few), around the year 2014, a pastor of mine mentioned an old-earth view. I found it pretty interesting and decided to study this. I spent a lot of time and some years on this study. And I have to admit, I am not 100% beyond a reasonable doubt that the old earth is the correct biblical view. I don't believe anyone can be. If someone thinks they can prove without a doubt either view, I challenge you.

I do know one thing for sure that can be proven: intelligent design. But I also believe this design is age-neutral.
It affirms that life was created by an intelligent being. It does not confirm or affirm an age. It just does not.
Some have said, "well the bible proves a young age." Again, I say prove it. I say it does not.

The Bible does not teach a young earth. As one professor said, whether the sun and moon were created or placed on day 4 makes no difference in trying to prove an age. The days of creation have already been established, and we just do not have a way for measuring time, for example, days 1-3, from a human point of view. They are simply days of an indeterminate length from our human point of view; these days were established before there were even days of keeping time from a human point of view.

Personally, I believe there is a lot of evidence pointing to an old earth. Dinosaurs, fossils, and strata. Cambrium layer, etc... And more.

I have heard people say, God created the earth (universe) to look old. Well, I really do not think so. That reminds me of when I used to try to find something ridiculous to help me out to believe the earth is young and man and dinosaurs ran around together.

 

[Carbon]

In the book, on pgs 232-233 "The Genesis Flood," titled: Creation Of "Appearance Of Age." one of the two authors writes: one thing which is very significant is, plants in order to continue to grow, must have soil, water, light, and chemical nutrients, etc... He also says the soil requires a long period of preparation before becoming able to support plant life. But here it must have been created instantaneously, with all the necessary chemical constituents, rather than gradually developed over centuries of rock weathering, alluvial deposition, etc.
Thus, it had an appearance of being "old" when it was still new. It was created with an appearance of age.

Grasping at straws if you ask me.

Scripture reads: And God called the dry land “earth,” and the gathering of the waters He called “seas”; and God saw that it was good. Gen 1:10.
I don't see where God here explained how He prepared the ground. To say what he said above is grasping at straws, just plain guesswork.


Then God says,
Then God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit according to their kind with seed in them”; and it was so. Gen 1:11.

Now, how does anyone know how God prepared the soil for the plants? If one day is as a thousand years to God, would it have taken Him long? I don't think so.

Another quick thought. As far as creating the earth to "look" old. It just doesn't seem right for God to bury millions of fossils of animals that lived millions of years ago, especially since they are young, just to make the earth look old.


And it's amazing how so many young earthers can act like they know the creation story just fine and accuse other Christians of not being Christians (some have) or even call them heretics, because they believe in an old earth.



I would ask, where were you when God created the universe?


“Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Job 38:4.

 

[makesends]

I have heard people say, God created the earth (universe) to look old. Well, I really do not think so. That reminds me of when I used to try to find something ridiculous to help me out to believe the earth is young and man and dinosaurs ran around together.

But, if I think you will admit that it is possible for both to be true, that the universe be (from one POV, according to relativity), billions of years old, and from another, 6000. That you can't explain it further doesn't prove it wrong.

 

[Carbon]

But, if I think you will admit that it is possible for both to be true, that the universe be (from one POV, according to relativity), billions of years old, and from another, 6000. That you can't explain it further doesn't prove it wrong.

But what would I be attempting to prove wrong if I admitted both could be true?

 

[makesends]

But what would I be attempting to prove wrong if I admitted both could be true?

Only that it necessarily is one or the other.

 

[John Bauer]

I do know one thing for sure that can be proven: intelligent design.

Okay, let's see the proof.

 

[Carbon]

Okay, let's see the proof.

There is lots, much more that I can present, that’s for sure. But a couple quick for now.

Consider DNA , or the complexity of the universe, consider gravity, physics, oxygen all fine tuned to support life. Even a beginning of the universe is confirmed.

Later when I have more time it will be enjoyable looking into more. God is awesome!

 

[makesends]

Carbon said:
I do know one thing for sure that can be proven: intelligent design.

Okay, let's see the proof.

My proof of it is by long-chain causation, and, again by axiomatic statements. One such is that Mechanical Fact cannot be self-existent, cannot be uncaused to exist. Thus, a willed causer, is First Cause.

A willed first cause is particular, if there are particular effects. We see that there are indeed particular effects, all caused either directly, or by means of other effects-become-causes. And if they are particular, the effects are not accidental, but intended.

If they are intended, and particular, and orderly (not accidental, nor chaotic, but following principles and laws and systems), then they are made ("designed") intelligently. They are indeed orderly; therefore, these effects are of intelligent design.

 

[atpollard]

Let’s set aside Genesis 1 to 3 for the sake of argument (to remove planetary evolution and dinosaurs from the discussion). Genesis 4 through the end of Revelation (taken as “God-breathed scripture”) are clear of two claims:

1. Adam and Eve were real people (Jesus and Paul both spoke of them as real people).
2. They gave birth to their first children about 6000 years ago (rounding off).

What are we to do with all the “science” (including archeology) for “homo Sapiens) existing prior to 6000 years ago? [30,000 years ago for the most recent and 400,000 years ago for the oldest]

Is Genesis (genealogies) and Jesus and Paul just non-literal?