Acts 2 and Regeneration...

[makesends]

Well thanks for your time. Would you agree as my Provisionist friend says, those 3,000 people were Regenerated before they were Pricked to the heart?

I don't know. God knows. I do know for sure that God can make the regeneration instantaneous, or time-irrelevant, if he wants to. As I'll never forget my father saying, "Some people just seem to come to know the Lord." That, and I know without a doubt of the monergism of Salvation. My personal opinion is that either IN or BEFORE that pricking of the heart, they were indeed regenerated. Their response to the influence upon their consciences is only demonstrative of their regeneration, and not causal.

 

[makesends]

Bruiser said:
Well thanks for your time. Would you agree as my Provisionist friend says, those 3,000 people were Regenerated before they were Pricked to the heart?

I don't know. God knows. I do know for sure that God can make the regeneration instantaneous, or time-irrelevant, if he wants to. As I'll never forget my father saying, "Some people just seem to come to know the Lord." That, and I know without a doubt of the monergism of Salvation. My personal opinion is that either IN or BEFORE that pricking of the heart, they were indeed regenerated. Their response to the influence upon their consciences is only demonstrative of their regeneration, and not causal.

I am curious how a Provisionist comes up with that. To me, they equivocate worse than an Arminian. Why would he need the regeneration to come first?

 

[Bruiser]

Bruiser said:
Well thanks for your time. Would you agree as my Provisionist friend says, those 3,000 people were Regenerated before they were Pricked to the heart?

I am curious how a Provisionist comes up with that. To me, they equivocate worse than an Arminian. Why would he need the regeneration to come first?

He said the first part of Saint Peter's Sermon is also the Gospel; the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. He said this shows that people can respond to the Gospel of their own Free Will, that people are Born Again after they Believe the Gospel...

This is why the Pricking of the heart is important. Is the first half of Saint Peter's Sermon also the Gospel? If yes, Provisionists have a perfect Passage for their side. I told him the first part of the Sermon wasn't the Gospel, but the Law which Pricks the heart. Although aspects of the Gospel are in the first part, the first part is meant to Condemn, not Save...

 

[Carbon]

Have fun, be Blessed. Ask the Group if being Cut to the heart is Regeneration...

I asked the pastor. He said it's not proof of regeneration, consider the parable of the sower. I agree.

 

[makesends]

He said the first part of Saint Peter's Sermon is also the Gospel; the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. He said this shows that people can respond to the Gospel of their own Free Will, that people are Born Again after they Believe the Gospel...

This is why the Pricking of the heart is important. Is the first half of Saint Peter's Sermon also the Gospel? If yes, Provisionists have a perfect Passage for their side. I told him the first part of the Sermon wasn't the Gospel, but the Law which Pricks the heart. Although aspects of the Gospel are in the first part, the first part is meant to Condemn, not Save...

I don't follow. You said the Provisionist says they were regenerated first.

 

[Bruiser]

Thanks guys. This looks like it's going to take some time. I don't have to win, it looks like I need to learn how to be more clear...

 

[Carbon]

Acts 16:14 [NASB] A woman named Lydia was listening; [she was] a seller of purple fabrics from the city of Thyatira, [and] a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul.

I look to Acts 16 and see something of far greater importance than some "Ordo Salutis" minutia. WHEN is less critical than WHO. It was not some blanket of grace empowering all people without exception to choose for themselves with a newly freed will ... it was GOD who actively opened a heart to receive that which would change EVERYTHING.

Now going back to Acts 2 ... MANY saw and heard. Some responded by mocking others had their hearts pierced. 100% were not saved in the end (some believed and some rejected). So GOD pierced the heart of "as many as were appointed to believe", and they believed [just like Lydia].

If I understand you correctly. You are saying if the heart is pierced it is because they are elect and the piercing is regeneration?

 

[atpollard]

If I understand you correctly. You are saying if the heart is pierced it is because they are elect and the piercing is regeneration?

I don't like the word "regeneration" because regeneration is a process, while the transformation from a "heart of stone" (enemy of God / dead) to "heart of flesh" (drawn to the Son / alive) is an immediate transformation. The hot-mess that I was pre-Jesus was not 100% fixed in an instant, but something was instantly 100% different. That was my experiential reality.

So, the point in Acts 2 and Acts 16 that seems most important to me is not a focus on "was regeneration instantaneous" or "did it start at that exact instant" ... the important take away from both stories is "GOD is the one that did something!"

• God pierced their hearts (they did not pierce their own hearts).
• God opened Lydia's heart (she did not open her own heart).

The thing that is important is not "ordo salutis" but "monergism, not synergism".

 

[Bruiser]

I don't like the word "regeneration" because regeneration is a process, while the transformation from a "heart of stone" (enemy of God / dead) to "heart of flesh" (drawn to the Son / alive) is an immediate transformation. The hot-mess that I was pre-Jesus was not 100% fixed in an instant, but something was instantly 100% different. That was my experiential reality.

So, the point in Acts 2 and Acts 16 that seems most important to me is not a focus on "was regeneration instantaneous" or "did it start at that exact instant" ... the important take away from both stories is "GOD is the one that did something!"

• God pierced their hearts (they did not pierce their own hearts).
• God opened Lydia's heart (she did not open her own heart).

The thing that is important is not "ordo salutis" but "monergism, not synergism".

I think the Ordo Salutis in Acts 2 will become important, as Provisionism presses their Ordo Salutis...

Let's get ahead of them...